Re: Will the DII's ever get out of Limbo?
It would also lead to a 12 team tournament.
It would also lead to a 12 team tournament.
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Will the DII's ever get out of Limbo?
- Thread starter cooperalls
- Start date
hawkhockey
Registered User
Re: Will the DII's ever get out of Limbo?
Is a 12 team format ,a good or bad thing?and if expanded to 12,
would that help or hurt discussions with the MIAC,NCHA etc. over equal tournament oportunities?
Is a 12 team format ,a good or bad thing?and if expanded to 12,
would that help or hurt discussions with the MIAC,NCHA etc. over equal tournament oportunities?
Re: Will the DII's ever get out of Limbo?
Not sure if I could see Merrimack wanting to drop out of Hockey East to go play D3 Hockey. Sure, they might be a doormat there in HE, but its being a prestigious doormat in a pretty good D1 League.
First that I've heard of Bentley entertaining full D1 dreams.
Not sure if I could see Merrimack wanting to drop out of Hockey East to go play D3 Hockey. Sure, they might be a doormat there in HE, but its being a prestigious doormat in a pretty good D1 League.
First that I've heard of Bentley entertaining full D1 dreams.
hawkhockey
Registered User
potsdamfan
New member
Re: Will the DII's ever get out of Limbo?
It means you were only willing to look at schools that had a hockey team.
No surprise to us.
A total aside, FWIW 31 years ago I had a choice of taking a job at Ferris or at Norwich and I picked Norwich. What does this add to the discussion, nothing, but it's interesting to me, anyway
It means you were only willing to look at schools that had a hockey team.
No surprise to us.
Re: Will the DII's ever get out of Limbo?
Leave it norm to get it right ...
I think it was THIS !! Aside that Dartmouth is in Vermont's backyard.
Leave it norm to get it right ...
norm1909
Larry Normandin
Re: Will the DII's ever get out of Limbo?
It looks like last year, the DII Management Council made a small step toward trying to get the DIII to accept the DII Ice Hockey teams as "equals".
From page 19 of 33:
It looks like last year, the DII Management Council made a small step toward trying to get the DIII to accept the DII Ice Hockey teams as "equals".
From page 19 of 33:
Except that more than half of the hockey playing D-II schools play up. Plus passage of 2010-100 ended new playups. I wonder if its a good idea to have two sets of rules for the same division?
For example, Lindenwood decides to field a men's hockey team. By rule, they can no longer declare to play up. However, they can still play in the big boy's sandbox because D-II does not sponsor a hockey championship. The same is currently true for the current members of the NE-10.
The Saints remind me of the elderly child who refuses to leave the family nest. They need to get the boot and strike out on their own
Re: Will the DII's ever get out of Limbo?
I've never understood the NCAA's stand on playing up - the old rules made sense to me - in fact, why can't a DII or DIII school decide it wants to play basketball or football at the DI level if they choose to. To me that would promote more of the "David and Goliath" drama that flows out of a small DI school making a run through the bloat ball field.
In any case, it you want a single rule here it is. "In any sport in which there is no DII sponsored championship, a school may opt to play for the DI or DIII championship. If they choose to play for the DIII championship, they must comply with all rules governing that sport at the DIII level, including, but not limited to schedules, recruiting, eligibility, and financial aid. If they opt to play for the DI national championship they will continue to be governed by applicable DII rules."
I have a few connections with St. Mike's they simply don't have the resources to support a program that wants to compete with the UVMs, RPIs, etc. They do want to preserve their DII basketball tradition which is very important to them.
I've never understood the NCAA's stand on playing up - the old rules made sense to me - in fact, why can't a DII or DIII school decide it wants to play basketball or football at the DI level if they choose to. To me that would promote more of the "David and Goliath" drama that flows out of a small DI school making a run through the bloat ball field.
In any case, it you want a single rule here it is. "In any sport in which there is no DII sponsored championship, a school may opt to play for the DI or DIII championship. If they choose to play for the DIII championship, they must comply with all rules governing that sport at the DIII level, including, but not limited to schedules, recruiting, eligibility, and financial aid. If they opt to play for the DI national championship they will continue to be governed by applicable DII rules."
I have a few connections with St. Mike's they simply don't have the resources to support a program that wants to compete with the UVMs, RPIs, etc. They do want to preserve their DII basketball tradition which is very important to them.
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Re: Will the DII's ever get out of Limbo?
What tradition are they trying to preserve exactly? Does the fact that they give scholarships in basketball preclude the hockey team from playing down to D3? There is no way they could compete in D1.
What tradition are they trying to preserve exactly? Does the fact that they give scholarships in basketball preclude the hockey team from playing down to D3? There is no way they could compete in D1.
norm1909
Larry Normandin
Re: Will the DII's ever get out of Limbo?
Current NCAA rules allow them to play down - BUT - the results/statistics have very little impact on the D3 teams championsip aspirations - i.e. Only in the "The secondary criteria introduce results against out-of-region Division III and all other opponents including those contests versus opponents from other classifications (i.e., provisionals, NCAA Divisions I and II)".* That is the problem for DIII's if they take advantage of scheduling a local DII school to save travel expenses, encourage their fans to travel, etc, then they lose out a chance to improve their SOS, OWP, etc.
* Refer to page 45 of this.
Current NCAA rules allow them to play down - BUT - the results/statistics have very little impact on the D3 teams championsip aspirations - i.e. Only in the "The secondary criteria introduce results against out-of-region Division III and all other opponents including those contests versus opponents from other classifications (i.e., provisionals, NCAA Divisions I and II)".* That is the problem for DIII's if they take advantage of scheduling a local DII school to save travel expenses, encourage their fans to travel, etc, then they lose out a chance to improve their SOS, OWP, etc.
* Refer to page 45 of this.
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The Real Georgia Peach
Registered User
Re: Will the DII's ever get out of Limbo?
Norm, Au Contreur... When the ECAC-E/NESCAC interlock was in place, Middlebury and Norwich were travel partners, creating the dreaded 0 for Vermont weekends for the rest of the leagues. Now with Norwich & St. Mike's as travel partners there is less of a stress factor for visiting teams (and home teams facing this partnership), the results/statistics have impacted the asperations of all the former interlock teams, one way or another.
Norm, Au Contreur... When the ECAC-E/NESCAC interlock was in place, Middlebury and Norwich were travel partners, creating the dreaded 0 for Vermont weekends for the rest of the leagues. Now with Norwich & St. Mike's as travel partners there is less of a stress factor for visiting teams (and home teams facing this partnership), the results/statistics have impacted the asperations of all the former interlock teams, one way or another.
Re: Will the DII's ever get out of Limbo?
Actually, Peach, the Norwich - Midd pairing was in place when Midd (and the rest of the Muffy and Trevor clan) was part of the ECAC East. When the NESCAC became a league of its own, St. Mikes moved from the NE to the East side to balance out the move of Tufts from the NE to NESCAC and leave both leagues with 10 teams and produce the Interlock. At the same time, the NESCAC mandated that travel partners had to be from the same league. That meant that Middlebury would pair with Williams and Norwich would pair with the Purple Knights.
Actually, Peach, the Norwich - Midd pairing was in place when Midd (and the rest of the Muffy and Trevor clan) was part of the ECAC East. When the NESCAC became a league of its own, St. Mikes moved from the NE to the East side to balance out the move of Tufts from the NE to NESCAC and leave both leagues with 10 teams and produce the Interlock. At the same time, the NESCAC mandated that travel partners had to be from the same league. That meant that Middlebury would pair with Williams and Norwich would pair with the Purple Knights.
norm1909
Larry Normandin
Re: Will the DII's ever get out of Limbo?
I was refering to the impact of the DII/DIII matchups, NOT the old NESCAC/ECAC-East Interlock. Even without the formal interlock, games between Middlebury & Norwich (and ANY East Region DIII school) will still have the full effect on everything except in-conference results/statistics.
I was refering to the impact of the DII/DIII matchups, NOT the old NESCAC/ECAC-East Interlock. Even without the formal interlock, games between Middlebury & Norwich (and ANY East Region DIII school) will still have the full effect on everything except in-conference results/statistics.
Re: Will the DII's ever get out of Limbo?
I guess what I was trying to ask is, can the Saints play down and be considered an actual DIII program, eligible for playoffs etc (like Merrimack and other DII schools play up in one sport) or must a DII institution only play up to be eligible for post-season play?
I am sorry, I still do not understand this.
I guess what I was trying to ask is, can the Saints play down and be considered an actual DIII program, eligible for playoffs etc (like Merrimack and other DII schools play up in one sport) or must a DII institution only play up to be eligible for post-season play?
I am sorry, I still do not understand this.
Re: Will the DII's ever get out of Limbo?
(1) You are ineligible for post season play in that division
(2) Games against you do not count for post season selection
Now, if you're watching ESPNU right now, you're watching Union (Division III, Liberty League) play Mass-Lowell (Division II, Northeast 10) in a battle of play-ups to go to the Division I Frozen Four (tm).
No. You could only play UP (and then only to Division 1). Proposition 2010-100 killed new play-ups. If you play DOWN
(1) You are ineligible for post season play in that division
(2) Games against you do not count for post season selection
Now, if you're watching ESPNU right now, you're watching Union (Division III, Liberty League) play Mass-Lowell (Division II, Northeast 10) in a battle of play-ups to go to the Division I Frozen Four (tm).
norm1909
Larry Normandin
Re: Will the DII's ever get out of Limbo?
Brucey's former school Union won 4-2 over Mass-Lowell, who blamed their loss on Brucey's former school - RIT!!
Brucey's former school Union won 4-2 over Mass-Lowell, who blamed their loss on Brucey's former school - RIT!!
Re: Will the DII's ever get out of Limbo?
Thank you! I am FINALLY comprehending! So, my guess, fwiw (lol) is, eventually, St. A's could move up, to the Atlantic League perhaps? And St. Mikes? Who knows, if they are forced out of the ECAC-E, which will probably happen after next season right?
PS- I was, in fact watching the Union -UML game last night!
Thank you! I am FINALLY comprehending! So, my guess, fwiw (lol) is, eventually, St. A's could move up, to the Atlantic League perhaps? And St. Mikes? Who knows, if they are forced out of the ECAC-E, which will probably happen after next season right?
PS- I was, in fact watching the Union -UML game last night!