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Why teams can’t win the NCAA championship

Re: Why teams can’t win the NCAA championship

Re: Why teams can’t win the NCAA championship

And the Clarkson crowd numbers are a big disappointment considering the students get in for free and tickets are, I believe, $5.

do they include the students in attendance numbers?

from the best I can tell, at UMD students are included since they have to go to the ticket window and get a ticket, at MN they are not since they only have to show their student ID to get in

not that it matters much, the striking difference between men & womens game is the lack of students at women games from my observation at Ridder, Mariucci and Amsoil
 
do they include the students in attendance numbers?

from the best I can tell, at UMD students are included since they have to go to the ticket window and get a ticket, at MN they are not since they only have to show their student ID to get in

not that it matters much, the striking difference between men & womens game is the lack of students at women games from my observation at Ridder, Mariucci and Amsoil
They have to. Looking at the empty seats on TV makes me think if they didn't the attendance would be around 100.
 
Re: Why teams can’t win the NCAA championship

Re: Why teams can’t win the NCAA championship

Ultimately, I agree with pgb; the change seems to have worked well for all parties involved.

Great summary of the facts in the bit I deleted, thanks.

As for the part I left: do you think she would not have been topline had she stayed? Do you think she would have not developed as far as she has? I think she would have, I think she would have been a star on those teams and part of the national team. The key being "a star" I think she had someone shouting in her ear that she should be "the star" which she certainly is at BSU. I hope she is happy there, she has done well no doubt and hockey should be such a tiny part of what a student gets out of their college experience that those other things should make the decision. I lived in Walker & been to Bemidji many times, I couldn't live there but for some people its heaven.
 
Re: Why teams can’t win the NCAA championship

Re: Why teams can’t win the NCAA championship

They have to. Looking at the empty seats on TV makes me think if they didn't the attendance would be around 100.

Clarkson students are not counted for attendance purposes.
 
Re: Why teams can’t win the NCAA championship

Re: Why teams can’t win the NCAA championship

Clarkson students are not counted for attendance purposes.

OK, second half of the question:
does it matter? IOW, about how many attend?

at UMD, disregarding band, you can often count them on your hands
at U of MN, very few attend
 
Re: Why teams can’t win the NCAA championship

Re: Why teams can’t win the NCAA championship

Wisconsin students also get in for free, game tickets are $5 and season tickets are $30, for comparison.

I don't think many students attend UW's games either, but unlike in other sports, there's no designated student section, so it's difficult to gauge how many are actually in attendance among the rest of the crowd.
 
Re: Why teams can’t win the NCAA championship

Re: Why teams can’t win the NCAA championship

Are there members of the staff whose job it is to promote the games on a regular basis? Beyond special events, are students being pushed, reminded or dragged to games? How much marketing is really being done to generate a fan base? I'm not intimately involved so I really don't know.
Also I'm not sure how much fan support plays a role into the success of a team.
 
Re: Why teams can’t win the NCAA championship

Re: Why teams can’t win the NCAA championship

Are there members of the staff whose job it is to promote the games on a regular basis? Beyond special events, are students being pushed, reminded or dragged to games? How much marketing is really being done to generate a fan base? I'm not intimately involved so I really don't know.
Also I'm not sure how much fan support plays a role into the success of a team.

The irony is that there are experts (professors) at the university in marketing, sales, PR, business, persuation, psychology, … and many other resources yet the university itself doesn’t seem to use them. Even if they do the ticket office is staffed with students who are ill trained, helpless, and are merely cashiers.

An example is at the U of MN, up until this year the best ticket was to buy a standing room only ticket for $5 (even though there was no chance of the game being sold out) and then sit or stand where you like because otherwise tickets were 8 or 9 bucks. If you did want to buy a season ticket you really had to work hard to find out how to get them, only to find out tickets were sold in such a haphazard method that the best seat available was worse than you’d get if you bought single game seats. I suppose since nobody goes, they figure why put in the effort to do the job right?

My observation of young adult fans is that most aren’t going to watch an athletic contest, they are going to an event in which they are trying/hoping to be as much a part of the event as the athletic participants. In a way, letting students in free is counterproductive, since it doesn’t cost anything, it has no value. The men’s game is the place to be, to be able to say you were there. They are afraid they’ll miss something their cohorts will experience if they don’t go. They want to be seen there. It’s similar to why young adults drive around, or walk around, seemingly aimlessly. They are searching for something, but don’t bother to ask what for because they don’t know either. Nobody goes to the women’s game because they know they won’t find anything there. Saying you went to a women’s hockey game doesn’t register, nobody goes, so nobody cares if you were there or not.

I kind of like that, no standing in line to buy an expensive ticket. No kid that drank too much cheap booze before coming and is now creating a disturbance that interferes with enjoying the game. No distraction or difficulty breathing because a young woman is sitting by me wearing a half bottle of some putrid perfume and talking endlessly about something nobody wants to hear except her bored friend who doesn’t like hockey anyway.
 
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Re: Why teams can’t win the NCAA championship

Re: Why teams can’t win the NCAA championship

They have to. Looking at the empty seats on TV makes me think if they didn't the attendance would be around 100.

When the Revs (professional soccer team) draw 15,000 people at 65,000 capacity Foxborough Stadium, they sell tickets in, and often come close to filling, only one side of the lower bowl, and the TV cameras are mounted on only one side so that you never see the three quarters of the stadium that is buck naked empty.
 
Re: Why teams can’t win the NCAA championship

Re: Why teams can’t win the NCAA championship

Pokechecker wrote: "In a way, letting students in free is counterproductive, since it doesn’t cost anything, it has no value."

When I was an undergraduate, every undergraduate got one free coupon for each football game but had to purchase a separate ticket for a date. Of course there was a brisk black market in unused coupons. After graduation I was talking with a classmate, a magna cum laude who went on to be a professor, who had never gone to a single game but was surprised to find out that gee, he might have sold all of his coupons. For hundreds of dollars. Gosh. Book learning doesn't always equate to cluelessness, but in his case.....
 
Re: Why teams can’t win the NCAA championship

Re: Why teams can’t win the NCAA championship

I mean, I think we're all only familiar with our programs, so it's hard to make comparisons, but I think Wisconsin's women's hockey staff does a really good job in marketing the team and providing information in the scheme of it being a "lesser" sport. I mean, are there TV/Newspaper ads? No. But they are on every possible social media and do consistent, useful posting that is often shared on the university athletics or university wide sites. If you go to Badger Women's Hockey FB or Twitter and scroll just a little in-season, you can have as much information as you'd like.

The also live tweet, have a free game blog and do post-game highlights packages that wrap up the action. Knowing that you can't watch things on the road and that games can be at inconvenient times, they make following the team as easy as possible.

They also do a couple incentives during the season - a couple of giveaways as well as offering SSH a "bring a friend" ticket for free - this year it was for the Clarkson series, which was a smart move.

That being said, UW ranks as one of the tops in the country for social media use and marketing in general - it's a fully supported effort.
 
Re: Why teams can’t win the NCAA championship

Re: Why teams can’t win the NCAA championship

but I think Wisconsin's women's hockey staff does a really good job in marketing the team and providing information in the scheme of it being a "lesser" sport.

I would agree with that, since Madison is the only venue that you cannot simply go to the venue and buy a ticket just before the game, I buy online beforehand to guarantee a ticket if I am going, the result is now I'm on "the list". I know a lot more about what is going on with the Badgers than I do the Gophers as far as upcoming games and tickets, even other sports besides women's hockey. At MN they make you search for info WI provides. I'd say at least half the info you get about the MN team comes from the coach & players.
 
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Re: Why teams can’t win the NCAA championship

Re: Why teams can’t win the NCAA championship

I would agree with that, since Madison is the only venue that you cannot simply go to the venue and buy a ticket just before the game

You can walk up and buy a ticket before the game for most series....
 
Re: Why teams can’t win the NCAA championship

Re: Why teams can’t win the NCAA championship

THis thread started as a joke then took a serious turn. OK let's be serious. There are 2 main reasons 3 teams have won every NCAA championship but last years.

First & biggest reason is there is not enough talent to stock the 35 teams legitimately playing D-I hockey. The very best are going to end up largely at 5 or 6 schools and the majority at a couple if they can. If you are really good and want to play for the championship there really are only a couple that offer you a great chance. The drop off in talent after the top 20-30 in North America is too great to push marginal teams into contention. Its getting better as teams like BSU have proven but not far enough. If there were only 16 teams or there were twice as many top elite players the challenge would be greater.

While I hope the numbers of great players increases - and it has been - there is one reason womens hockey does not have the changing final fours the men have that I hope never changes (though I bet it will). Middlin mens teams can hook, hold, interfere and generally goon it up to an extent that prevents the very best players from unleashing their game. The result is that average can drag down better and unseat more talented teams. None of this years final four do not deserve to be there but part of what got them there was a willingness and ability to muck it up, even their top players have to. It is the way the men's game is played. It is the path to the NHL. If you want to compete for the final four it is what you have to do and that is OK I guess since nobody seems to complain about it. What is missing is the great passing, play-making and skating that can dominate the womens game.

See UCONN women's basketball.
 
Re: Why teams can’t win the NCAA championship

Re: Why teams can’t win the NCAA championship

That's why Olympic years are so important. It takes the best players off the best teams and gives the others a shot.
 
Re: Why teams can’t win the NCAA championship

Re: Why teams can’t win the NCAA championship

Minnesota - If we hadn't lost Amanda Kessel to injury for the season, we could have been .... oh wait, ...
WE ARE THE CHAMPIONS


excuses, excuses
 
Re: Why teams can’t win the NCAA championship

Re: Why teams can’t win the NCAA championship

Probably sheer fantasy, but your post got me to thinking that if a certain Eastern coach had been even more remiss in her selections, Amanda Kessel scores two goals against Clarkson and the Gophers win four in a row. Or less remiss and Hannah Brandt scores a goal in regulation and we get to hear the national anthem after women's hockey at the Olympics for the first time since 1998.
 
Re: Why teams can’t win the NCAA championship

Re: Why teams can’t win the NCAA championship

Probably sheer fantasy...
When you dream about past outcomes that didn't materialize the way you envisioned, inevitably it's fantasy. ;)
 
Re: Why teams can’t win the NCAA championship

Re: Why teams can’t win the NCAA championship

Definitely unqualified, utter fantasy then, as opposed to mundane, everyday type fantasy.
 
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