Who will be the 7th member of the Big Ten Hockey Conference?

[wooderson]

Re: Who will be the 7th member of the Big Ten Hockey Conference?

Dunno about the rest, but this wouldn't shock me.

Immediately, you're going to have a hard time convincing teams that were just in the CCHA/WCHA with Big Ten teams to take cash instead of a home and home, especially at the rather low #'s that have been thrown around in college hockey for "buy" games. This will change over time, I'd suspect, but right now they're probably not interested. That means there are 60 home games that Big Ten schools are looking to fill in non-conference play as opposed to 20-30 filled in this year between 5 Big Ten schools, and you have the same # of schools that were willing to take trips out west with no return trip. Throw in Denver and North Dakota looking for about 16 between them instead of 6-10 now.

If the game is on the BTN though it's not just cash, it's free advertising. Everyone in the Great Lakes region pretty much gets BTN, and even if they don't watch the game there's a decent chance that when they're flipping through channels or looking at the tv guide they'll see "Northern Michigan University" (assuming the BTN figures out that its not the University of Northern Michigan by then) or "Lake Superior State University." I'm not sure you can put a price on that, there's not a lot of times when schools of that size can reach prospective students and most of their alumni base all at once like that. Sounds a little condescending I guess, but I really think the chance to have a game broadcast all over the BTN footprint will be enough for most of the CCHA refugees to agree to away series with the BTHC schools after the split happens.

 

[bronconick]

Re: Who will be the 7th member of the Big Ten Hockey Conference?

If the game is on the BTN though it's not just cash, it's free advertising. Everyone in the Great Lakes region pretty much gets BTN, and even if they don't watch the game there's a decent chance that when they're flipping through channels or looking at the tv guide they'll see "Northern Michigan University" (assuming the BTN figures out that its not the University of Northern Michigan by then) or "Lake Superior State University." I'm not sure you can put a price on that, there's not a lot of times when schools of that size can reach prospective students and most of their alumni base all at once like that. Sounds a little condescending I guess, but I really think the chance to have a game broadcast all over the BTN footprint will be enough for most of the CCHA refugees to agree to away series with the BTHC schools after the split happens.

The problem is you're agreeing to the game sometime the previous year, and if it's a non-conference weekend, the BTN is likely only picking 2-3 of the 12 games played that weekend, so it's not going to work great as a selling point.

 

[dggoddard]

Re: Who will be the 7th member of the Big Ten Hockey Conference?

Take a small/medium sized hockey program.

If you agree to a non-conference road series without a return visit you miss out on $80,000 (2,000 fans x $20 x 2 games) per weekend. Factor in that a return visit from Michigan, MSU, Sconnie, Minnesota would also probably increase attendance/parking/merchandise by 50%, not to mention higher than usual ticket prices.

 

[wooderson]

Re: Who will be the 7th member of the Big Ten Hockey Conference?

The problem is you're agreeing to the game sometime the previous year, and if it's a non-conference weekend, the BTN is likely only picking 2-3 of the 12 games played that weekend, so it's not going to work great as a selling point.

Well assuming we're talking Friday-Saturday series, or series at all. We might be approaching the end of that model in college hockey. You're probably right that it might not happen in the first year or two, but schools like Michigan and Minnesota aren't going to go against basketball on Saturday night when Tuesday night is wide open.

 

[dggoddard]

Re: Who will be the 7th member of the Big Ten Hockey Conference?

And take the elite Eastern teams as another example. They might love to come out west for a return visit, but airfare & hotel isn't in their athletic budgets and they are going to be using their one plane trip annually to visit Notre Dame.

 

[wooderson]

Re: Who will be the 7th member of the Big Ten Hockey Conference?

And take the elite Eastern teams as another example. They might love to come out west for a return visit, but airfare & hotel isn't in their athletic budgets and they are going to be using their one plane trip annually to visit Notre Dame.

Well its the same problem that college football has...the landscape has increasingly shifted into two tiers, and unfortunately for the fans it doesn't make a lot of economic sense for the teams in the elite tier to play each other out of conference. Basketball doesn't have quite as big of a problem because they have a tournament model that includes everyone with a pulse. Even so you don't see big schools playing very many non-conference road games unless its a specific TV-focused event like the B1G-ACC challenge, and that's going to be the case in college hockey too. Minnesota/Michigan/Wisconsin will probably play one or two difficult road games against either a big rival or as part of a inter-conference challenge, and the rest will be home games against whoever wants to come. I think that's why it was so devastating for the NCHC to lose Notre Dame, because that dramatically reduces to chances that the inter-conference arrangement will be with them. It's going to be a hard sell to the BTN brass that it would be better to play North Dakota and Denver instead of Notre Dame and Boston College every year.

 

[dggoddard]

Re: Who will be the 7th member of the Big Ten Hockey Conference?

Well its the same problem that college football has...the landscape has increasingly shifted into two tiers, and unfortunately for the fans it doesn't make a lot of economic sense for the teams in the elite tier to play each other out of conference. Basketball doesn't have quite as big of a problem because they have a tournament model that includes everyone with a pulse. Even so you don't see big schools playing very many non-conference road games unless its a specific TV-focused event like the B1G-ACC challenge, and that's going to be the case in college hockey too. Minnesota/Michigan/Wisconsin will probably play one or two difficult road games against either a big rival or as part of a inter-conference challenge, and the rest will be home games against whoever wants to come. I think that's why it was so devastating for the NCHC to lose Notre Dame, because that dramatically reduces to chances that the inter-conference arrangement will be with them. It's going to be a hard sell to the BTN brass that it would be better to play North Dakota and Denver instead of Notre Dame and Boston College every year.

I see the opposite happening.

If the BigTen can't get the cupcakes, and the Eastern Teams aren't going to fly out even for a return visit, the WCHA teams only have 6 non-conference games to fill, the NCHC schools will get the dates with return visits. At least that is what I heard this weekend.

I think its becoming pretty obvious that the almost all the western powers are having trouble filling 20 home games. So "Plan B" will be to get reciprocal dates with drawing power.

And don't forget that North Dakota is probably going to have to eliminate the Sioux logo before they can schedule the Big Ten teams.

 

[wooderson]

Re: Who will be the 7th member of the Big Ten Hockey Conference?

I see the opposite happening.

If the BigTen can't get the cupcakes, and the Eastern Teams aren't going to fly out even for a return visit, then the WCHA and NCHC will get the dates with return visits. At least that is what I heard this weekend.

I think its becoming pretty obvious that the western powers can't all fill 20 home games. So "Plan B" will be to get dates with drawing power.

And don't forget that North Dakota is going to have to eliminate the Sioux logo before they can schedule the Big Ten teams.

Union, St. Lawrence, Northeastern, Niagara and Bentley all managed to find the scratch to make it out to Ann Arbor this year. This may come as a shock to you, but Michigan isn't going to be visiting Bentley for a return date anytime soon. I'm sure Michigan would prefer to play other Michigan schools or even NCHC schools, but at the end of the day whether it's Ferris State, Denver, Merrimack or the University of the Yukon the game will sell out and somebody will broadcast it. They might keep doing things like playing Cornell in MSG, but they're not going on the road out of conference.

 

[4four4]

Re: Who will be the 7th member of the Big Ten Hockey Conference?

If the game is on the BTN though it's not just cash, it's free advertising. Everyone in the Great Lakes region pretty much gets BTN, and even if they don't watch the game there's a decent chance that when they're flipping through channels or looking at the tv guide they'll see "Northern Michigan University" (assuming the BTN figures out that its not the University of Northern Michigan by then) or "Lake Superior State University." I'm not sure you can put a price on that, there's not a lot of times when schools of that size can reach prospective students and most of their alumni base all at once like that. Sounds a little condescending I guess, but I really think the chance to have a game broadcast all over the BTN footprint will be enough for most of the CCHA refugees to agree to away series with the BTHC schools after the split happens.

When this all goes down the BTN will only televise Big Ten schools against Big Ten schools. Look for a Friday-Sunday series and maybe the occasional tv double headers.

 

[ExileOnDaytonStreet]

Re: Who will be the 7th member of the Big Ten Hockey Conference?

Union, St. Lawrence, Northeastern, Niagara and Bentley all managed to find the scratch to make it out to Ann Arbor this year. This may come as a shock to you, but Michigan isn't going to be visiting Bentley for a return date anytime soon. I'm sure Michigan would prefer to play other Michigan schools or even NCHC schools, but at the end of the day whether it's Ferris State, Denver, Merrimack or the University of the Yukon the game will sell out and somebody will broadcast it. They might keep doing things like playing Cornell in MSG, but they're not going on the road out of conference.

I agree. Just like football and basketball, you're not going to see powerful/big money teams go on the road too much. But, I think you will see a little more variety in opponents, in part for the reasons that dggoddard was pointing out: there are only so many "little sisters of the poor" schools to go around. Eventually, there's going to be gaps in schedules that can only be filled by "mid major" schools (or schools like DU or UND that are actually powerhouses in hockey, but without the massive AD budgets), and those schools will do what they can to get return dates. I don't expect it to happen often, but it will definitely happen more than it does in football.

The post-season format also comes into play. The nice thing about the NCAA hockey tournament format is that it's not as insular as the BCS (too few opportunities in the BCS means the heavyweights will only play cupcakes or each other), and it's small enough that RPI is more important than it is in basketball. The emphasis on RPI will probably work in the favor of some of the schools that want to get home games against B1G teams. With the B1G teams beating up on a each other all year, they'll want quality wins to boost the B1G's profile in the PairWise. They won't get that by only having non-con games against the likes of Bentley and AIC, so that becomes another bargaining chip for the non-B1Gs.

 

[dggoddard]

Re: Who will be the 7th member of the Big Ten Hockey Conference?

Union, St. Lawrence, Northeastern, Niagara and Bentley all managed to find the scratch to make it out to Ann Arbor this year.

You're talking about this season with contracts that were signed two and three years ago.

I'm talking about 2013-14 and beyond. The market has changed and supposedly schools are asking for big money to schedule visits in 2013 & beyond.

 

[LtPowers]

Re: Who will be the 7th member of the Big Ten Hockey Conference?

This may come as a shock to you, but Michigan isn't going to be visiting Bentley for a return date anytime soon.

Not Bentley, but they are reciprocating with RIT with a trip to Rochester in October 2013.


Powers &8^]

 

[4four4]

Re: Who will be the 7th member of the Big Ten Hockey Conference?

I agree. Just like football and basketball, you're not going to see powerful/big money teams go on the road too much. But, I think you will see a little more variety in opponents, in part for the reasons that dggoddard was pointing out: there are only so many "little sisters of the poor" schools to go around. Eventually, there's going to be gaps in schedules that can only be filled by "mid major" schools (or schools like DU or UND that are actually powerhouses in hockey, but without the massive AD budgets), and those schools will do what they can to get return dates. I don't expect it to happen often, but it will definitely happen more than it does in football.

The post-season format also comes into play. The nice thing about the NCAA hockey tournament format is that it's not as insular as the BCS (too few opportunities in the BCS means the heavyweights will only play cupcakes or each other), and it's small enough that RPI is more important than it is in basketball. The emphasis on RPI will probably work in the favor of some of the schools that want to get home games against B1G teams. With the B1G teams beating up on a each other all year, they'll want quality wins to boost the B1G's profile in the PairWise. They won't get that by only having non-con games against the likes of Bentley and AIC, so that becomes another bargaining chip for the non-B1Gs.

Unless of course they go back to the old boys network of making decisions in the backroom.

 

[UMICH]

Re: Who will be the 7th member of the Big Ten Hockey Conference?

When this all goes down the BTN will only televise Big Ten schools against Big Ten schools. Look for a Friday-Sunday series and maybe the occasional tv double headers.

I doubt it. Granted they won't broadcast B1G teams against crappy teams but if a B1G team schedules a non-cupcake it will be broadcast IF there is nothing else to put on. Remember the first game, of any sport, to air on the BTN? Yea, it pains me remember this but it was the Michigan-Appy State football game...

Since this is a Hockey forum, remember Minnesota-Holy Cross in the first round of the NCAA Tournament a few years ago? They'll broadcast non-conference games.

 

[TigerFan86-87]

Re: Who will be the 7th member of the Big Ten Hockey Conference?

Not Bentley, but they are reciprocating with RIT with a trip to Rochester in October 2013.


Powers &8^]

Qualifier... They are only making a trip to Rochester to play RIT on Homecoming at a likely sold-out Blue Cross Arena (10k+), not at Ritter Arena.

 

[bigblue_dl]

Re: Who will be the 7th member of the Big Ten Hockey Conference?

Since this is a Hockey forum, remember Minnesota-Holy Cross in the first round of the NCAA Tournament a few years ago? They'll broadcast non-conference games.

NCAA tournament game =/ Non-conference regular season game

 

[4four4]

Re: Who will be the 7th member of the Big Ten Hockey Conference?

I doubt it. Granted they won't broadcast B1G teams against crappy teams but if a B1G team schedules a non-cupcake it will be broadcast IF there is nothing else to put on. Remember the first game, of any sport, to air on the BTN? Yea, it pains me remember this but it was the Michigan-Appy State football game...

Since this is a Hockey forum, remember Minnesota-Holy Cross in the first round of the NCAA Tournament a few years ago? They'll broadcast non-conference games.

From what I have been told they will not schedule NC games no tv.

 

[Wol4ine]

Re: Who will be the 7th member of the Big Ten Hockey Conference?

From what I have been told they will not schedule NC games no tv.

Why? With only 20 B1G games, 10 weekend series, that leaves a lot of NC games in Oct, Nov and Dec. They carried the UM vs NMU back in Feb. Why wouldn't they carry a UM vs ND hockey game? or a Minnesota vs Boston College? No, they may not air the Wisconsin vs MTU game or PSU vs Robert Morris but if there is a marquee matchup with a top school, I've gotta beleive they will air if they have the rights.

 

[4four4]

Re: Who will be the 7th member of the Big Ten Hockey Conference?

Why? With only 20 B1G games, 10 weekend series, that leaves a lot of NC games in Oct, Nov and Dec. They carried the UM vs NMU back in Feb. Why wouldn't they carry a UM vs ND hockey game? or a Minnesota vs Boston College? No, they may not air the Wisconsin vs MTU game or PSU vs Robert Morris but if there is a marquee matchup with a top school, I've gotta beleive they will air if they have the rights.

The only thing I can see televising games in the fall might conflict with glorious football.

 

[bigmrg74]

Re: Who will be the 7th member of the Big Ten Hockey Conference?

Heck, one of the first games I remember being aired on the Big Ten Network was the Appy State at Michigan game. I don't see why the BTN wouldn't be willing to broadcast a few noncon hockey games if they don't have basketball to show that night.