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Westworld (WITH SPOILERS!!)

Re: Westworld (WITH SPOILERS!!)

I think the whole point of this is that there is no park anymore...there isn't anything left to be managed because the robots are now alive and able to fight back...
I thought about that too, but that sort of hamstrings the producers because they and HBO will want another season. How can they have a show without the park? The show may not be on the level with GoT for viewership, but it had get really good numbers when you consider that HBO's app gave it the most prominent position on their home screen.
 
Re: Westworld (WITH SPOILERS!!)

Seeing the samurai, it made me wonder if that was a teaser for the next season - an anthology story, of sorts - or if they were simply saying that there are multiple areas to the park, or multiple parks running at the same time. My bet is that next season will either involve or center around who developed The Escape narrative.
It's been decades since I saw the original movie Westworld, and I've never read the book, but in the movie there were multiple themed areas, as I recall. In fact, I think it was intended at least in part as kind of a slight mocking of Disney's different theme park areas. I seem to recall in the climactic chase scene from that movie Richard Benjamin going through different "worlds" as he escaped from the Western themed park.
 
Re: Westworld (WITH SPOILERS!!)

And the note Felix gave to Mauve listed her daughter's location as "World 3, sector x, section y." There are definitely multiple worlds.
 
Re: Westworld (WITH SPOILERS!!)

I thought about that too, but that sort of hamstrings the producers because they and HBO will want another season. How can they have a show without the park? The show may not be on the level with GoT for viewership, but it had get really good numbers when you consider that HBO's app gave it the most prominent position on their home screen.
Did you watch their little post show thing? Based on what they said, season 2 seems to be about the management trying to get the park back under control, but the hosts not letting go and fighting back...it seems like it will be very different than season 1.

Speaking of Westworld the movie, it was on Syfy over the weekend, recorded so I can watch at some point.
 
Re: Westworld (WITH SPOILERS!!)

Did you watch their little post show thing? Based on what they said, season 2 seems to be about the management trying to get the park back under control, but the hosts not letting go and fighting back...it seems like it will be very different than season 1.

Speaking of Westworld the movie, it was on Syfy over the weekend, recorded so I can watch at some point.

I did not see the post show bit. I'll have to catch it on a re-watch.
 
Re: Westworld (WITH SPOILERS!!)

And the note Felix gave to Mauve listed her daughter's location as "World 3, sector x, section y." There are definitely multiple worlds.

If Samurai World is to be the theme next year, the producers have a serious challenge on their hands. Hollywood doesn't have a large number of Asian actors, let alone Japanese actors. They've had a tough history of getting enough roles to include Asian characters that it wouldn't surprise me to see a lot of other people folded into the scenes either as hosts that go unchallenged/unexplained by the show or all the people behind masks will be people other than Asian while unmasked hosts will be Asian. It's an interesting challenge for them to address.
 
Re: Westworld (WITH SPOILERS!!)

If Samurai World is to be the theme next year, the producers have a serious challenge on their hands. Hollywood doesn't have a large number of Asian actors, let alone Japanese actors. They've had a tough history of getting enough roles to include Asian characters that it wouldn't surprise me to see a lot of other people folded into the scenes either as hosts that go unchallenged/unexplained by the show or all the people behind masks will be people other than Asian while unmasked hosts will be Asian. It's an interesting challenge for them to address.
Plus, Mickey Rooney is dead.
 
Re: Westworld (WITH SPOILERS!!)

I knew that the movie had multiple worlds, but I am not excited at all that they're going that direction with the show. Wish it was just Westworld.

Overall, the finale was very good, and the whole season was great. It was pretty cool to see all of my predictions to come true from early in the season. I believe that Ford is done for and we won't be seeing him anymore in the current timeframe, but I'm guessing we'll be getting plenty of flashbacks or other timelines for him to be in, but we will see William again. William finally got what he wanted, so he's happy. Maeve's "maze" was essentially the escape plan, and her deviating from that plan, and having a truly human reaction to wanting to save her daughter was a cool way to show that she has evolved. I just hope that they spend the rest of the series in Westworld, and not traipsing through Samurai World, Roman World, Medieval World, etc.
 
Re: Westworld (WITH SPOILERS!!)

I knew that the movie had multiple worlds, but I am not excited at all that they're going that direction with the show. Wish it was just Westworld.

Overall, the finale was very good, and the whole season was great. It was pretty cool to see all of my predictions to come true from early in the season. I believe that Ford is done for and we won't be seeing him anymore in the current timeframe, but I'm guessing we'll be getting plenty of flashbacks or other timelines for him to be in, but we will see William again. William finally got what he wanted, so he's happy. Maeve's "maze" was essentially the escape plan, and her deviating from that plan, and having a truly human reaction to wanting to save her daughter was a cool way to show that she has evolved. I just hope that they spend the rest of the series in Westworld, and not traipsing through Samurai World, Roman World, Medieval World, etc.

I'm with you...I really hope that was more to just show that WestWorld is a part of something larger...not that next season will be cowboys vs samurai.
 
Re: Westworld (WITH SPOILERS!!)

They might not even do a Samurai World per se, perhaps it was just a teaser that Delos most likely offers more options and if they do move the setting it could anything. I would love for them to expand elsewhere because I think the western theme has run it's course.
 
Re: Westworld (WITH SPOILERS!!)

I need to rewatch that entire season. You almost need a pen and paper to map everything out.
 
Re: Westworld (WITH SPOILERS!!)

I need to rewatch that entire season. You almost need a pen and paper to map everything out.

You catch so many little things from earlier episodes, dialog used that you thought were complete throwaway lines upon first viewing and instead end up building to what's all laid out in the final two or three episodes. The writers really had a full story penned and treated the whole thing like a long novel that wasn't whittled away so it could fit into a two-hour movie's script.
 
Re: Westworld (WITH SPOILERS!!)

You catch so many little things from earlier episodes, dialog used that you thought were complete throwaway lines upon first viewing and instead end up building to what's all laid out in the final two or three episodes. The writers really had a full story penned and treated the whole thing like a long novel that wasn't whittled away so it could fit into a two-hour movie's script.

Kepler was right, this was high art.

I haven't seen him post here, I hope he stuck it out with the series.
 
Re: Westworld (WITH SPOILERS!!)

This might be the only season of any show ever that I re-watch in full.

Wait - I re-watched the entire series of Band of Brothers so not quite I guess... :)
 
Re: Westworld (WITH SPOILERS!!)

I finally finished.

It will take a long time to digest, and I will be very interested to see what Nolan himself says about it.

Suffice that right now it's my favorite show in TV history.
 
Re: Westworld (WITH SPOILERS!!)

So was that the real Ford that got shot, or a body double? And if it was the real one, did he already transplant his memories into a robot ala Bernarnold? Because clearly the whole end scene was planned by him.

My take.

Since apparently Consciousness = Memory + Improvisation + Suffering*, Dolores needed to suffer to finally bring her into complete consciousness. William/Man in Black understood that from experience -- he woke from his "sleep" in the park after he understood how she was trapped. This is why he spent 35 years hurting her. (Well, this and William is not a good person. After all he could have tried gentle love.) Ford has Dolores kill him for the same reason Arnold did: to push her over the hump into full consciousness. There are also echoes pf parenthood here: you are never fully yourself until you "kill" your parents. And faith: man becomes fully real only after he "kills" God, first in Eden, then with reason. This also harkens to The Creation of Adam. God is inside the brain, man bootstraps himself from the animals.

Finally, there is the theory that man created God because he mistook his own thoughts for the divine voice. Hence we have Delores first hearing Arnold (God), then achieving real sentience (confronting herself). This is an explanation of the Julian Jayne book The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind, referenced in the title of the last episode. Here is the wiki on the episode. So far there is little about the philosophy underlying the episode. I wish Nolan would write the entry, much as Lin-Manuel Miranda wrote the Genius annotation to the lyrics of Hamilton.

I happened to be rereading Gilbert Ryle's The Concept of Mind while watching the show -- the parallels are extraordinary and I will try to write about them at some point.

I think you could spend a year thinking and writing about all the ideas and implications concerning consciousness and mind and humanity in this show and not even scratch the surface. This was a beautiful piece of work -- from writing to direction to acting to music -- and everybody involved should get an Emmy.

So anyway, Ford. He could be a double, as long as Dolores thinks it's really him. He says "the stakes must be high," not the actuality. But Ford is also repenting for his tragic mistake, and I believe he thinks it fitting that he be executed.

On the other hand... the full context of the line is as follows:

These violent delights have violent ends/And in their triumph die, like fire and powder,/Which as they kiss consume: the sweetest honey/Is loathsome in his own deliciousness/And in the taste confounds the appetite:/Therefore love moderately; long love doth so;/Too swift arrives as tardy as too slow. -- Romeo and Juliet, Act II Scene 6.

Friar Lawrence says this to Romeo. Friar Lawrence also gives Juliet the sleeping potion whereby she pretends to be dead. So is this a hint that Arnold and/or Ford could still be alive? Personally I don't think so. Ford has spent his life trying to atone for his sins and fulfill Arnold's (and William's) desire to see that from the lie of the park one unadulterated truth comes forth: the birth of a new people with free will. I think it would be inartistic of Ford to christen that moment with another lie, and Ford is nothing if not alive to aesthetics.

* I was also struck, probably because of my theater background, at how Memory + Improvisation + Suffering also equals something else. It's a great description of how actors prepare for their roles. And really what better way to summarize the machines prior to their epiphany than "actors"?
 
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