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Westworld (WITH SPOILERS!!)
- Thread starter SJHovey
- Start date
bigblue_dl
Armed
Re: Westworld (WITH SPOILERS!!)
Bernard is a host, and Ford essentially killed him. Theresa dead helps Ford, because they found her body, and that gave Ford a leg up on Hale in Episode 8. There was a benefit to Ford in having Theresa dead, and not just reprogrammed.
During Bernard's flashbacks, when Ford is restoring his memory, they show a flashback of him and Theresa in bed, and Bernard freezes her, like they can freeze hosts.
Bernard is a host, and Ford essentially killed him. Theresa dead helps Ford, because they found her body, and that gave Ford a leg up on Hale in Episode 8. There was a benefit to Ford in having Theresa dead, and not just reprogrammed.
During Bernard's flashbacks, when Ford is restoring his memory, they show a flashback of him and Theresa in bed, and Bernard freezes her, like they can freeze hosts.
Shirtless Guy
Old Dirty Basterd
Re: Westworld (WITH SPOILERS!!)
They did an autopsy, so unless everyone involved with that are also bots, that doesn't hold up...
They did an autopsy, so unless everyone involved with that are also bots, that doesn't hold up...
bigblue_dl
Armed
Re: Westworld (WITH SPOILERS!!)
I am confident in the following things, based on evidence I've seen, and not just theories:
There are 3 or 4 timelines being shown. Dolores is in all but 1 of them.
The earliest is the time of the "incident" and Arnold's death. We see Dolores remembering this timeline in the last several episodes. This is when we see the hosts learning to dance, we see Arnold interviewing Dolores in the chamber under the church, when Dolores is in her blue dress, the village is whole and new, and Teddy is remembering (either real or implanted) Wyatt attacking the village.
The next timeline is about 5 years after the "incident". This is when Logan and William enter the park looking to potentially invest in it, since it is losing money. We see that whenever Logan and William encounter bodies, there are no flies, because all of the hosts are generation one, and mechanical based robots. During their journey with Dolores, Dolores starts to remember the last time she was in places, 5 years earlier, during the incident. It is also confusing because during this timeline, they flash back and forth between 3 different timelines, so she's essentially remembering, and they're showing her in the current timeline as well, following her tracks from 30 years prior.
The 3rd timeline is very brief, and only shown in flashbacks from Maeve, it is about 1 year before current time, and it is when the Man in Black's wife has killed herself. He then goes to Westworld and attacks Maeve her daughter.
The 4th timeline is current time. This is when we see the Man in Black, old Ford, Hale, Theresa, Bernard, Ellie, etc. In this timeline Dolores is following in her footsteps from 30 years prior, because Arnold told her to follow the maze. Teddy and the Man in Black are following her through the maze. At the end of Episode 9, the Man in Black finally catches up to her. Every time the Man in Black encounters bodies, there are flies, because the hosts are now the next generation flesh and blood version. During this timeline Bernard is unwittingly doing the same things that Arnold did to encourage the hosts' sentience, because he is actually Arnold.
William is the Man in Black, aged 30 years. The one biggest smoking gun is, Hale says to the Man in Black, that he "saved the company once", which is the exact reason Logan and William are in the park to begin with. When the Man in Black met Angela, he recognizes her, because she was the host that welcomed him the first time he came to the park, as we can see in William's timeline in about Episode 2. Also, he got a hint from Angela on the next step of the maze, about going to the village buried in sand. He had been there before, with Dolores, 30 years prior. He realizes then that he's following his and Dolores's path from 30 years before.
I am confident in the following things, based on evidence I've seen, and not just theories:
There are 3 or 4 timelines being shown. Dolores is in all but 1 of them.
The earliest is the time of the "incident" and Arnold's death. We see Dolores remembering this timeline in the last several episodes. This is when we see the hosts learning to dance, we see Arnold interviewing Dolores in the chamber under the church, when Dolores is in her blue dress, the village is whole and new, and Teddy is remembering (either real or implanted) Wyatt attacking the village.
The next timeline is about 5 years after the "incident". This is when Logan and William enter the park looking to potentially invest in it, since it is losing money. We see that whenever Logan and William encounter bodies, there are no flies, because all of the hosts are generation one, and mechanical based robots. During their journey with Dolores, Dolores starts to remember the last time she was in places, 5 years earlier, during the incident. It is also confusing because during this timeline, they flash back and forth between 3 different timelines, so she's essentially remembering, and they're showing her in the current timeline as well, following her tracks from 30 years prior.
The 3rd timeline is very brief, and only shown in flashbacks from Maeve, it is about 1 year before current time, and it is when the Man in Black's wife has killed herself. He then goes to Westworld and attacks Maeve her daughter.
The 4th timeline is current time. This is when we see the Man in Black, old Ford, Hale, Theresa, Bernard, Ellie, etc. In this timeline Dolores is following in her footsteps from 30 years prior, because Arnold told her to follow the maze. Teddy and the Man in Black are following her through the maze. At the end of Episode 9, the Man in Black finally catches up to her. Every time the Man in Black encounters bodies, there are flies, because the hosts are now the next generation flesh and blood version. During this timeline Bernard is unwittingly doing the same things that Arnold did to encourage the hosts' sentience, because he is actually Arnold.
William is the Man in Black, aged 30 years. The one biggest smoking gun is, Hale says to the Man in Black, that he "saved the company once", which is the exact reason Logan and William are in the park to begin with. When the Man in Black met Angela, he recognizes her, because she was the host that welcomed him the first time he came to the park, as we can see in William's timeline in about Episode 2. Also, he got a hint from Angela on the next step of the maze, about going to the village buried in sand. He had been there before, with Dolores, 30 years prior. He realizes then that he's following his and Dolores's path from 30 years before.
bigblue_dl
Armed
Re: Westworld (WITH SPOILERS!!)
The new hosts are flesh and blood, physically indistinguishable from humans.
Also, they pulled one of those implanted transmitters from her body, how is she not a host if she had the same transmitter transplanted that the woodcutter had?
The new hosts are flesh and blood, physically indistinguishable from humans.
Also, they pulled one of those implanted transmitters from her body, how is she not a host if she had the same transmitter transplanted that the woodcutter had?
Re: Westworld (WITH SPOILERS!!)
I really don't get why Ford did that, or what he accomplished. But if there is a reason, that might explain why he had Theresa killed, as opposed to just turning her off, assuming she is a host.
I tend to agree with this, but I also have this question that I was left with at the end of the last episode. What's the benefit to Ford of having one of these bots getting "killed" as opposed to just turning them off? For example, why have Bernard blow his brains out with a gun? Can't the tech people just reassemble him exactly the way they do when a guest blows the brains out of a host? Why not just reprogram him, if you're Ford?
I really don't get why Ford did that, or what he accomplished. But if there is a reason, that might explain why he had Theresa killed, as opposed to just turning her off, assuming she is a host.
bigblue_dl
Armed
Re: Westworld (WITH SPOILERS!!)
With bodies there are less questions than if there aren't. What is the board going to do if those 2 just wind up missing? Search the park? Dig deeper? Ford doesn't want that. If Bernard kills himself, and there's a body, not too many questions get asked. Theresa has an accident and falls into a canyon while trying to smuggle out IP, not too many questions get asked.
With bodies there are less questions than if there aren't. What is the board going to do if those 2 just wind up missing? Search the park? Dig deeper? Ford doesn't want that. If Bernard kills himself, and there's a body, not too many questions get asked. Theresa has an accident and falls into a canyon while trying to smuggle out IP, not too many questions get asked.
Slap Shot
I got nothing
Re: Westworld (WITH SPOILERS!!)
So are the old ones until you dig deeper at least. When they gutted Delores you could see the inner-mechanisms. Even with the newer bots being made there's plenty of mechanics involved as they're being assembled.
So are the old ones until you dig deeper at least. When they gutted Delores you could see the inner-mechanisms. Even with the newer bots being made there's plenty of mechanics involved as they're being assembled.
Shirtless Guy
Old Dirty Basterd
Re: Westworld (WITH SPOILERS!!)
She had the transmitter from the woodcutter, not a transmitter implanted in her...she supposedly died trying to get to a place the transmitter would work...
She had the transmitter from the woodcutter, not a transmitter implanted in her...she supposedly died trying to get to a place the transmitter would work...
bigblue_dl
Armed
Re: Westworld (WITH SPOILERS!!)
I don't think so, I think the new bots are 100% flesh and blood. Watch the intro, they're almost like 3D printing them with flesh, then they dip them in the magic stem cell bath, and create a human with AI. There were comments in earlier episodes that they moved away from mechanical robots, because the biological versions were cheaper.
I don't think so, I think the new bots are 100% flesh and blood. Watch the intro, they're almost like 3D printing them with flesh, then they dip them in the magic stem cell bath, and create a human with AI. There were comments in earlier episodes that they moved away from mechanical robots, because the biological versions were cheaper.
bigblue_dl
Armed
Re: Westworld (WITH SPOILERS!!)
Ok, that could be right. But I still think she's a host. I wouldn't be surprised if the autopsy was done by all hosts. In fact, I'm thinking everyone is a host except for a few humans, like Ford, Man in Black and Hale.
Ok, that could be right. But I still think she's a host. I wouldn't be surprised if the autopsy was done by all hosts. In fact, I'm thinking everyone is a host except for a few humans, like Ford, Man in Black and Hale.
Shirtless Guy
Old Dirty Basterd
Re: Westworld (WITH SPOILERS!!)
I think that's quite possible that pretty much everyone but the guests are hosts, because its cheaper than paying anyone...
bigblue_dl
Armed
Re: Westworld (WITH SPOILERS!!)
One theory that I had during last episode, that I hadn't seen anywhere else.
Westworld is earth. In the distant past. Ford is God. Man in Black is Satan. The hosts are the human race. The hosts gaining sentience is Eve giving Adam the forbidden fruit.
What if the whole thing is the biblical creation myth? "God created man in his own image"
One theory that I had during last episode, that I hadn't seen anywhere else.
Westworld is earth. In the distant past. Ford is God. Man in Black is Satan. The hosts are the human race. The hosts gaining sentience is Eve giving Adam the forbidden fruit.
What if the whole thing is the biblical creation myth? "God created man in his own image"
St. Clown
Ideas Posted are Likely Not My Own
Re: Westworld (WITH SPOILERS!!)
With the season finale coming tomorrow night I started re-watching the first three episodes today. It's amazing the amount of stuff that slides right past a viewer the first time. There's a host in the first episodes yelling out to Albert in one of the first scenes, saying that he [the host] will not die this time. This was the host who shot up a room full of hosts and is drinking milk (common in the show) only to have it then leak from his gut due to gunshot wounds.
Also, that entire episode took place in the later timeline, makes reference to not having had sever host errors in just over 30 years. The very next scene has The Man In Black saying that he's been visiting the park for that same length of time.
Lastly, Dolores's conversations with Bernard in the second episode just mean so much more than I realized at the time, casting most of those conversations from my memory.
With the season finale coming tomorrow night I started re-watching the first three episodes today. It's amazing the amount of stuff that slides right past a viewer the first time. There's a host in the first episodes yelling out to Albert in one of the first scenes, saying that he [the host] will not die this time. This was the host who shot up a room full of hosts and is drinking milk (common in the show) only to have it then leak from his gut due to gunshot wounds.
Also, that entire episode took place in the later timeline, makes reference to not having had sever host errors in just over 30 years. The very next scene has The Man In Black saying that he's been visiting the park for that same length of time.
Lastly, Dolores's conversations with Bernard in the second episode just mean so much more than I realized at the time, casting most of those conversations from my memory.
Shirtless Guy
Old Dirty Basterd
Re: Westworld (WITH SPOILERS!!)
The only question I have with the Dolores conversations is how many of them are actually with Arnold...not Bernard.
unofan
Well-known member
Re: Westworld (WITH SPOILERS!!)
So was that the real Ford that got shot, or a body double? And if it was the real one, did he already transplant his memories into a robot ala Bernarnold? Because clearly the whole end scene was planned by him.
Samurai World? Yes please.
Man in Black smiling at the end means he'll get to have fun next season. No way he's dead yet.
So was that the real Ford that got shot, or a body double? And if it was the real one, did he already transplant his memories into a robot ala Bernarnold? Because clearly the whole end scene was planned by him.
Samurai World? Yes please.
Man in Black smiling at the end means he'll get to have fun next season. No way he's dead yet.
Shirtless Guy
Old Dirty Basterd
Re: Westworld (WITH SPOILERS!!)
It means pretty much everything this season was planned by Ford...not sure what it means about his sentient future...maybe he did something with the younger him in the cabin?
It means pretty much everything this season was planned by Ford...not sure what it means about his sentient future...maybe he did something with the younger him in the cabin?
St. Clown
Ideas Posted are Likely Not My Own
Re: Westworld (WITH SPOILERS!!)
My money is on Ford being truly dead, and not looking for a resurrection. His death was far too public to be brought back as a host.
Seeing the samurai, it made me wonder if that was a teaser for the next season - an anthology story, of sorts - or if they were simply saying that there are multiple areas to the park, or multiple parks running at the same time. My bet is that next season will either involve or center around who developed The Escape narrative. Nothing was given to it other than it exists. It has to be either Arnold acting through Bernard, or Ford doing his best Arnold impersonation and having an escape attempt made whenever a host becomes sufficiently self aware. Either something will pull that host back into the park, a la Maeve, or we have a homicidal android on the loose and it becomes an early-80s Harrison Ford movie.
With Bernard's identity only known to him and Deadshot Dolores, will he continue with the park? Did they state whether or not Elsie's body was found? If she's still officially just missing, it seems to me that they could easily have her reappear, Bernard either making her a self-aware host to manage the park or put her into the fray with the rest.
My money is on Ford being truly dead, and not looking for a resurrection. His death was far too public to be brought back as a host.
Seeing the samurai, it made me wonder if that was a teaser for the next season - an anthology story, of sorts - or if they were simply saying that there are multiple areas to the park, or multiple parks running at the same time. My bet is that next season will either involve or center around who developed The Escape narrative. Nothing was given to it other than it exists. It has to be either Arnold acting through Bernard, or Ford doing his best Arnold impersonation and having an escape attempt made whenever a host becomes sufficiently self aware. Either something will pull that host back into the park, a la Maeve, or we have a homicidal android on the loose and it becomes an early-80s Harrison Ford movie.
With Bernard's identity only known to him and Deadshot Dolores, will he continue with the park? Did they state whether or not Elsie's body was found? If she's still officially just missing, it seems to me that they could easily have her reappear, Bernard either making her a self-aware host to manage the park or put her into the fray with the rest.
Shirtless Guy
Old Dirty Basterd
Re: Westworld (WITH SPOILERS!!)
I think the whole point of this is that there is no park anymore...there isn't anything left to be managed because the robots are now alive and able to fight back...