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WCHA Thread III
- Thread starter brookyone
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ARM
Fan of chipmunk-like mascots.
ARM
Fan of chipmunk-like mascots.
ARM
Fan of chipmunk-like mascots.
Re: WCHA Thread III
I believe so. They must vote by position, and in case of a tie, there are extra players on the higher team and fewer on the lower (four 1st-line forwards, only two on the 2nd line). It almost seems like sometimes people get together and plan some aspects, because some awards get kind of balanced out. I'm not privy to any inside info, so this is just a guess from observing results over the years.
Re: WCHA Thread III
Thanks ARM. I guess I'm curious how the league sees Wong. I think she's quietly incredible on D. She had the potential to be incredible on F but I dunno, maybe she's found her stride. So when I see third team I guess I assume that is a "lesser" perception of value among the coaches.
Thanks ARM. I guess I'm curious how the league sees Wong. I think she's quietly incredible on D. She had the potential to be incredible on F but I dunno, maybe she's found her stride. So when I see third team I guess I assume that is a "lesser" perception of value among the coaches.
ARM
Fan of chipmunk-like mascots.
Re: WCHA Thread III
I think the perception that UMD had a down year hurts your candidates a little bit. That third team is really pretty darn good, though, and a player as good as Prévost didn't get named at all. Just not room for everyone.
Not necessarily. You have to look at who is on the 1st and 2nd teams. For example, Haley Irwin is on the third team, but look at some of the people who are on the first two teams. Wong comes in behind: Schleper, who has been 1st team for the last three years; Bozek, who I think should be DPotY; McKeough, who is DPoty; and MLam, who is a Kaz finalist. I'd switch Wong and McKeough, but that's probably why they don't let me vote.
I think the perception that UMD had a down year hurts your candidates a little bit. That third team is really pretty darn good, though, and a player as good as Prévost didn't get named at all. Just not room for everyone.Re: WCHA Thread III
Maybe this has already been covered and some can call me a Minnesota homer, but how can you have someone be the defensive player of the year, and NOT be a first-team All-WCHA? It's basically saying that your third-best defenseman in the league is your top defenseman. Make sense? If she was actually named to the first team, I wouldn't argue because that would mean that everyone agrees that the player from Wisconsin is one of the best defenseman in the league, who also was voted on the first team. Aren't the same people voting for the All-WCHA as well as the players of the year? Decker was voted as player of the year, as well as a first-team All-WCHA. That makes sense because you're basically saying that of the four (yes four) that were named to the first team are also in the running for player of the year. This is puzzling to be considering that two Minnesota players are good enough to be voted by a large group to first-team All-WCHA, but not good enough to be named Defensive Player of the Year. Also, I thought that the Student-Athlete of the Year had to be a senior? Are they basing this off of her academic status, rather than athletic? In the past, hasn't it gone to a graduating senior. Just my thoughts.
Maybe this has already been covered and some can call me a Minnesota homer, but how can you have someone be the defensive player of the year, and NOT be a first-team All-WCHA? It's basically saying that your third-best defenseman in the league is your top defenseman. Make sense? If she was actually named to the first team, I wouldn't argue because that would mean that everyone agrees that the player from Wisconsin is one of the best defenseman in the league, who also was voted on the first team. Aren't the same people voting for the All-WCHA as well as the players of the year? Decker was voted as player of the year, as well as a first-team All-WCHA. That makes sense because you're basically saying that of the four (yes four) that were named to the first team are also in the running for player of the year. This is puzzling to be considering that two Minnesota players are good enough to be voted by a large group to first-team All-WCHA, but not good enough to be named Defensive Player of the Year. Also, I thought that the Student-Athlete of the Year had to be a senior? Are they basing this off of her academic status, rather than athletic? In the past, hasn't it gone to a graduating senior. Just my thoughts.
Re: WCHA Thread III
You can have a DPOTY be on the second team if you're valuing offensive contributions more in the "Team" honors the DPOTY honors.
But I'll add that would contradict
(1) the fact MLam was second-team D
(2) the fact that the award press release only mentioned the DPOTY's offensive stats??????? I was thinking, is this a parody? At least the ECAC DPOTY release mentioned +/-.
You can have a DPOTY be on the second team if you're valuing offensive contributions more in the "Team" honors the DPOTY honors.
But I'll add that would contradict
(1) the fact MLam was second-team D
(2) the fact that the award press release only mentioned the DPOTY's offensive stats??????? I was thinking, is this a parody? At least the ECAC DPOTY release mentioned +/-.
ARM
Fan of chipmunk-like mascots.
Re: WCHA Thread III
My guess is that there were a small number of voters that liked the DPotY a lot. Some of the other D had a broader base of support, and got named higher on more ballots for the teams. I could easily see some voters ranking the D as MLam and Bozek in some order, then maybe Schleper, Wong, Vichorek before they got around to the DPotY. Others might put MLam lower, because she didn't even play D for two months.
I've always wondered what is worse, to get snubbed for an award, or to win when half of the people are thinking, "How did SHE win?!?"
My guess is that there were a small number of voters that liked the DPotY a lot. Some of the other D had a broader base of support, and got named higher on more ballots for the teams. I could easily see some voters ranking the D as MLam and Bozek in some order, then maybe Schleper, Wong, Vichorek before they got around to the DPotY. Others might put MLam lower, because she didn't even play D for two months.
I've always wondered what is worse, to get snubbed for an award, or to win when half of the people are thinking, "How did SHE win?!?"
Re: WCHA Thread III
Some interesting comments from Brad Schlossman of the Grand Forks Herald about the WCHA awards and the Lamoureux twins:
The bizarre WCHA women’s award selections
Posted on March 2, 2012 by Brad Elliott Schlossman
Jocelyne and Monique Lamoureux tore through competition this season, putting up ridiculous numbers along the way. But one thing became clear Thursday night: They weren’t making a lot of friends around the league while doing it.
The WCHA announced its postseason awards — as voted on by each team’s coaching staff and captain — and those around the league may have used their all-conference ballot as the place to grind an axe with the Lamoureux twins.
Jocelyne Lamoureux did not win WCHA player of the year and Monique Lamoureux-Kolls was not a first-team all-conference member. Both are rather perplexing.
Jocelyne led the league in goals, assists and points. She’s just the second player since 2000 to lead the league outright in all three categories. The other one? Her sister, Monique, in 2009. Neither won player of the year. Both times it was given to a different forward.
Jocelyne tallied 64 points in league play. That’s the most anyone has scored in seven years (Remember the Darwitz-Wendell-Stephens line? Nobody has done it since them). Jocelyne won the league’s scoring title by a whopping 10 points.
Monique played forward to start the year but spent more than half of the season at defense. She racked up 53 points in league play. The two defensemen who were all-WCHA first team had 33 and 23 points.
Monique played strictly defense after Christmas. In one month and four days (Jan. 14 to Feb. 18), she tallied 25 points — which is more than any other WCHA defenseman had during the entire 2009-10 and 2010-11 seasons (and more than first-teamer Anne Schleper had all of this season).
Last year’s defensive player of the year, Duluth senior Jocelyne Larocque, had 24 points for the year. Monique had more in 1 month and 4 days. This year’s defensive player of the year, Wisconsin junior Stefanie McKeough, had 18 points for the year. It took Monique 22 days to surpass that.
Since moving strictly back to defense after Christmas, Monique averaged 2.08 points per WCHA game. Previously, the greatest season ever by a WCHA blue liner was Wisconsin’s Sis Paulsen, who averaged 1.57 points per WCHA game in 1999-00. Off the ice, they have both served as team captains and are both two-time WCHA scholar-athlete selections (3.5 GPA or better). So what is it? Is it their physical, gritty style of play that has rubbed people the wrong way? Is their transfer from Minnesota to UND still bothering people?
Maybe we’ll never know exactly, but it’s hard to believe anyone marked Monique down as a second- or third-teamer (or left her off the ballot completely) with a straight face.
Some interesting comments from Brad Schlossman of the Grand Forks Herald about the WCHA awards and the Lamoureux twins:
The bizarre WCHA women’s award selections
Posted on March 2, 2012 by Brad Elliott Schlossman
Jocelyne and Monique Lamoureux tore through competition this season, putting up ridiculous numbers along the way. But one thing became clear Thursday night: They weren’t making a lot of friends around the league while doing it.
The WCHA announced its postseason awards — as voted on by each team’s coaching staff and captain — and those around the league may have used their all-conference ballot as the place to grind an axe with the Lamoureux twins.
Jocelyne Lamoureux did not win WCHA player of the year and Monique Lamoureux-Kolls was not a first-team all-conference member. Both are rather perplexing.
Jocelyne led the league in goals, assists and points. She’s just the second player since 2000 to lead the league outright in all three categories. The other one? Her sister, Monique, in 2009. Neither won player of the year. Both times it was given to a different forward.
Jocelyne tallied 64 points in league play. That’s the most anyone has scored in seven years (Remember the Darwitz-Wendell-Stephens line? Nobody has done it since them). Jocelyne won the league’s scoring title by a whopping 10 points.
Monique played forward to start the year but spent more than half of the season at defense. She racked up 53 points in league play. The two defensemen who were all-WCHA first team had 33 and 23 points.
Monique played strictly defense after Christmas. In one month and four days (Jan. 14 to Feb. 18), she tallied 25 points — which is more than any other WCHA defenseman had during the entire 2009-10 and 2010-11 seasons (and more than first-teamer Anne Schleper had all of this season).
Last year’s defensive player of the year, Duluth senior Jocelyne Larocque, had 24 points for the year. Monique had more in 1 month and 4 days. This year’s defensive player of the year, Wisconsin junior Stefanie McKeough, had 18 points for the year. It took Monique 22 days to surpass that.
Since moving strictly back to defense after Christmas, Monique averaged 2.08 points per WCHA game. Previously, the greatest season ever by a WCHA blue liner was Wisconsin’s Sis Paulsen, who averaged 1.57 points per WCHA game in 1999-00. Off the ice, they have both served as team captains and are both two-time WCHA scholar-athlete selections (3.5 GPA or better). So what is it? Is it their physical, gritty style of play that has rubbed people the wrong way? Is their transfer from Minnesota to UND still bothering people?
Maybe we’ll never know exactly, but it’s hard to believe anyone marked Monique down as a second- or third-teamer (or left her off the ballot completely) with a straight face.
northhockey
New member
Re: WCHA Thread III
Brad nailed the argument. You can say what you want, but numbers dont lie
Brad nailed the argument. You can say what you want, but numbers dont lie
Re: WCHA Thread III
I completely agree with Schlossman's article. Very perplexing. Also agree with the defensive player of the year being very surprising. IMO, Minnesota girls had to split votes on that hurting each other and the F/D argument hurt Lamoureux-Kolls.
But very excited for today’s games. Have the Krach’s 1,2,4 and 5 teams and the four teams that have been the most battle-tested this season with strength of schedule. The way the national picture is shaping up, this may be the best tournament in March.
I completely agree with Schlossman's article. Very perplexing. Also agree with the defensive player of the year being very surprising. IMO, Minnesota girls had to split votes on that hurting each other and the F/D argument hurt Lamoureux-Kolls.
But very excited for today’s games. Have the Krach’s 1,2,4 and 5 teams and the four teams that have been the most battle-tested this season with strength of schedule. The way the national picture is shaping up, this may be the best tournament in March.
Re: WCHA Thread III
My opinion and you won't like it.
It's not just about points. I feel that McKeough, Bozek and Schlepper are all better defensively than Lam and I might even throw in Wong ahead of her. Example I'm sure if you were to put Knight strictly at Defense she would probably score a ton of points and I feel would play better D than Lam. If we put Lam back at forward I would probably have her ahead of some others.
My pick for top D would be Bozek or Shlepper. They play against the top lines and shuts em down. And no Minnesota is not my favorite team.
Sorry.
My opinion and you won't like it.
It's not just about points. I feel that McKeough, Bozek and Schlepper are all better defensively than Lam and I might even throw in Wong ahead of her. Example I'm sure if you were to put Knight strictly at Defense she would probably score a ton of points and I feel would play better D than Lam. If we put Lam back at forward I would probably have her ahead of some others.
My pick for top D would be Bozek or Shlepper. They play against the top lines and shuts em down. And no Minnesota is not my favorite team.
Sorry.
Re: WCHA Thread III
Brad nailed the argument? I actually don't think you're entitled to win WCHA Player of the Year because you won the league scoring title by 10 points, just because lots of other WCHA Players of the Year also won the scoring title by a similar margin. None of the other players mentioned there were on a team that finished a distant third in the league.
There's a case to be made for JLam as WCHA Player of the Year, but I don't like the claim that JLam absolutely must have personally offended other coaches. There's a case to be made for Decker as well (e.g. points against the top 4 teams.)
I do object more to MLam being on the Second Team.
Brad nailed the argument? I actually don't think you're entitled to win WCHA Player of the Year because you won the league scoring title by 10 points, just because lots of other WCHA Players of the Year also won the scoring title by a similar margin. None of the other players mentioned there were on a team that finished a distant third in the league.
There's a case to be made for JLam as WCHA Player of the Year, but I don't like the claim that JLam absolutely must have personally offended other coaches. There's a case to be made for Decker as well (e.g. points against the top 4 teams.)
I do object more to MLam being on the Second Team.
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