WCHA, CCHA talk merger (08-03-11)

[Squarebanks]

Ummm... are they STUPID? They'd be willing to pass up a chance to hand out scholarships, be bigger fish in the pond and get extra games some/most years because they are that afraid to go to Alaska? Will someone tell these East Coast liberals that Palin is usually in the lower 48 these days?

Probably! But you have to realize that for a lot of those Northeast locales, Alaska might as well be the moon.

 

[Squarebanks]

Got a link on that? I know at least half of the "AHA-4" would love the two extra home games, and I'd wager it's more like 3 of the 4.

There are plenty of articles discussing the AHA-to-CCHA move that say one of the stipulations for moving to the CCHA is that they don't want Alaska in the conference.

 

[bigmrg74]

Re: WCHA, CCHA talk merger (08-03-11)

And what are they going to do to be in compliance with Title IX? They already have a women's team.

Beats me, I'm just spitballin' ideas, and Syracuse seemed to be the best local to the AHA schools that should have Men's College Hockey. Could be then, could be another school perhaps that would fit fairly well into the footprint of the retooled CCHA. And heck, that could be anybody from about Toronto to Kentucky to Chicago pretty much.

 

[SCSU Euro]

Re: WCHA, CCHA talk merger (08-03-11)

There are plenty of articles discussing the AHA-to-CCHA move that say one of the stipulations for moving to the CCHA is that they don't want Alaska in the conference.

Donald paid them all to say that.

 

[Squarebanks]

Here is the reality on travel: the CCHA worked for Fairbanks because you can fly Fairbanks-Seattle-Detroit or Fairbanks-Seattle-Chicago and be a decent bus ride from your destination. The exceptions were the UP schools. Regardless, a flight with one connection(Seattle) is not bad. It's a long flight, but very doable.

Now, to get from Fairbanks to anywhere in New York or PA in winter, you're looking at a two-connection trip. That means twice the chance of problems, twice the chance of hitting bad weather at a connecting point, and basically adding about 4 to 5 hours on the trip, not counting bus time. That makes travel a much bigger issue. IMO.

Seems kinda silly to me to worry about having to fly up there for one weekend a year when they cover most of the plane trip. Fine then, Swap Huntsville and Fairbanks around, and then work out the early interlock deal so that the AHA's don't have to go to Alaska. Once they're in, then they can be scheduled to go to the North for the interlock.

One measly trip a year, they cover a good chunk of it, and you get the option of playing 2 extra games to boot out of it, which could be done either at home, or at another school for a non-con payday. Still think that my plan would work out pretty good even for them.

 

[5hole]

Re: WCHA, CCHA talk merger (08-03-11)

Its always interesting to hear the arguments against Alaska schools because of Alaska travel, because those are mostly myths solidly dispelled on this board years ago.

What is also interesting is to hear the complaints about travelling ...

Okay, a few questions for you about travel to Alaska -

• Do the CCHL teams fly to FAI using commercial or charter? If commercial, are they generally able to get their travel party (~30 people, I would guess) on the same flights or do they have to break up their travel party into two or more groups?
• What type of fare reimbursement does UAF provide to the schools? Full, partial, set amount?
• Will UAF be willing to continue paying travel on the same terms given that they would no longer be in the same conference with Mich, MSU, OSU, Notre Dame and Miami?

 

[Spydey629]

Re: WCHA, CCHA talk merger (08-03-11)

As far as the main point of the thread goes:

Both leagues have to at least discuss merging as a last-resort / fall back / doomsday scenario. If the AHA-4 balk, either one adding Huntsville doesn't do any good, one would still be stuck at 5 teams.

That said, I don't think a merger happens. The auto bid is too much of a recruiting tool to give up. What would you rather compete for - a bid against 7 other teams, or 9?

Ideally, this is how this all shakes out:

WCHA: UAA, BSU, MTU, Mankato, NMU, SCSU.
CCHA: UAH, BGSU, Canisius, Ferris, Mercyhurst, Niagara, RMU

That leaves both with 6 solid teams. UA_, Lake State, and Western are the "wildcards" that could go with either conference and be fine. WMU could still end up in the Nat, for all we know. If Moorhead gets the funding, they have a slot open in the WCHA.

If it plays out well, Alabama-Huntsville gets a home and both conferences have at least seven teams each, pending what the three wildcards end up doing.

 

[darker98]

Re: WCHA, CCHA talk merger (08-03-11)

Beats me, I'm just spitballin' ideas, and Syracuse seemed to be the best local to the AHA schools that should have Men's College Hockey. Could be then, could be another school perhaps that would fit fairly well into the footprint of the retooled CCHA. And heck, that could be anybody from about Toronto to Kentucky to Chicago pretty much.

When you win the lottery isn't Grand Valley going to the CCHA?

 

[Squarebanks]

1. Commercial. Alaska Airlines has roughly 1,000 seats a day into Fairbanks in the winter, all 737's so no vomit comet puddle jumpers.

2. I believe it's 20 tickets.

3. I sure as hell hope that gets negotiated down some.

Okay, a few questions for you about travel to Alaska -

• Do the CCHL teams fly to FAI using commercial or charter? If commercial, are they generally able to get their travel party (~30 people, I would guess) on the same flights or do they have to break up their travel party into two or more groups?
• What type of fare reimbursement does UAF provide to the schools? Full, partial, set amount?
• Will UAF be willing to continue paying travel on the same terms given that they would no longer be in the same conference with Mich, MSU, OSU, Notre Dame and Miami?

 

[giwan]

Re: WCHA, CCHA talk merger (08-03-11)

1. Commercial. Alaska Airlines has roughly 1,000 seats a day into Fairbanks in the winter, all 737's so no vomit comet puddle jumpers. 2. I believe it's 20 tickets. 3. I sure as hell hope that gets negotiated down some.

If anything I would expect it may be negotiated up. I believe the Alaska travel issue it more talk then not.

 

[davyd83]

Re: WCHA, CCHA talk merger (08-03-11)

If anything I would expect it may be negotiated up. I believe the Alaska travel issue it more talk then not.

You didn't have a three and a half hour bus ride, overnight stay in Green Bay and a 17 hour trip from Green Bay to Fairbanks, then a similar trip coming home. And not all trips are on Alaska Air. The last time I was there, it was bus to Green Bay, then Green Bay-Minneapolis-Anchorage, then a four hour layover and a puddle jumper to Fairbanks. With Fairbanks-Seattle-Minneapolis-Green Bay-bus coming home.

The flights aren't booked based upon the best possible connections for the visitors, they are based upon best fare and whatever can be booked with available award miles.

More talk then not? How many times have you made the trip?

 

[giwan]

Re: WCHA, CCHA talk merger (08-03-11)

You didn't have a three and a half hour bus ride, overnight stay in Green Bay and a 17 hour trip from Green Bay to Fairbanks, then a similar trip coming home. And not all trips are on Alaska Air. The last time I was there, it was bus to Green Bay, then Green Bay-Minneapolis-Anchorage, then a four hour layover and a puddle jumper to Fairbanks. With Fairbanks-Seattle-Minneapolis-Green Bay-bus coming home.The flights aren't booked based upon the best possible connections for the visitors, they are based upon best fare and whatever can be booked with available award miles.More talk then not? How many times have you made the trip?

Made it a few times from Houghton and yes a hassle but a paid for hassle

 

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: WCHA, CCHA talk merger (08-03-11)

So you're going to convince the Alaska schools to play half of their conference home games on weeknights as opposed to weekends and to play more of their home games during holiday breaks, which traditionally are not great attendance nights? Now you want the schools that are traveling to miss 8 school days instead of six when they have to play both. For a Friday/ Saturday & Wednesday/ Thursday setup, teams generally leave on Wednesday. So you lose 3 school days that week, plus the entire following week. By traveling to both stops separately, they would lose Wed-Fri in each of those weeks, for a total of six days. The NCAA has limits on the number of class days that can be missed. And when you consider that those Mankato-Lake State or Bemidji-Ferris trips are 2 day bus rides, giving up two extra days for Alaska is not a good idea.

Can you please find the bylaws that explain those class days missed limits? I looked and can't find anything describing things that way...

 

[Skeeterman]

Re: WCHA, CCHA talk merger (08-03-11)

Any chance of me merging with a cheerleader this season?

 

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: WCHA, CCHA talk merger (08-03-11)

Any chance of me merging with a cheerleader this season?

Oh yeah...the fat one

 

[Red Cloud]

Re: WCHA, CCHA talk merger (08-03-11)

Beats me, I'm just spitballin' ideas, and Syracuse seemed to be the best local to the AHA schools that should have Men's College Hockey.

There's a huge gap between "should" and "will." There's really so such thing as "should," that's simply a term made up by people like you who want to shoehorn non-existent programs into this conference or that conference.

 

[kingdobbs]

Re: WCHA, CCHA talk merger (08-03-11)

Ummm... are they STUPID? They'd be willing to pass up a chance to hand out scholarships, be bigger fish in the pond and get extra games some/most years because they are that afraid to go to Alaska? Will someone tell these East Coast liberals that Palin is usually in the lower 48 these days?

Six extra scholarships isn't the winning perk you think it is. The AHA 4 would be joining a league not substantially better than their current one, with no major reduction in travel cost, and which is one team dropping hockey away from being in trouble.

As for the extra games, it's not like we're talking teams like Michigan and Minnesota that will reliably turn trips to Alaska into lucrative home games no matter what. In all likelihood, they'll be able to get half of them home, at most, and may not be able to turn any of them into home games. And given that all of them are in the lower quintile of attendance averages, we're not talking about particularly lucrative home games either.

It's not as much of a slam dunk move as you think it is for them.

 

[ScoobyFanClub]

Re: WCHA, CCHA talk merger (08-03-11)

If anything I would expect it may be negotiated up. I believe the Alaska travel issue it more talk then not.

It's not made up ... The biggest issue isn't even travel during the year ... it's the playoffs. If Fairbanks makes the playoffs, suddenly you have to schedule 30 flights on one week's notice to Alaska. Try doing that some time - and see how expensive it is.

 

[5hole]

Re: WCHA, CCHA talk merger (08-03-11)

Six extra scholarships isn't the winning perk you think it is. The AHA 4 would be joining a league not substantially better than their current one, with no major reduction in travel cost, and which is one team dropping hockey away from being in trouble.

As for the extra games, it's not like we're talking teams like Michigan and Minnesota that will reliably turn trips to Alaska into lucrative home games no matter what. In all likelihood, they'll be able to get half of them home, at most, and may not be able to turn any of them into home games. And given that all of them are in the lower quintile of attendance averages, we're not talking about particularly lucrative home games either.

It's not as much of a slam dunk move as you think it is for them.

Good points (and you beat me to it ). Even if we got home games v. some good ECAC teams, it is not exactly a huge payday. As for the additional scholies, that is correct as well. While it would get us back to where we were pre-AHA, it is more players but not necessarily the better players that we want. A lot of Niagara's recruiting is against ECAC teams and we do not win many of those battles, mostly because of the leagues we have been in (CHA and AHA). Joining the CCHA leftovers does next to nothing to change that.

Travel would not be much better either, maybe even worse, with a trip to the remote Soo included.

As for the Alaska travel, Squarebanks answers to the questions I posed pretty much explains why the AHA4 are not interested and not STUPID. Commercial travel for a travel party that probably numbers closer to 30 than the paid for 20 is not only costly but a nightmare. Go to Orbitz, put in BUF to FAI, pick a weekend in January and see what you get ... it ain't pretty! And notice that one leg of the trip generally includes a flight on a small plane such as a Canadair or Embraer.

As always, the devil is in the details ... only 20 tickets so the trip is still costly; difficult; 4-hour time zone change. I figure the guy who would hate the Alaska trip the most at Niagara would be new assistant coach Pat Oliveto:

“The role (at Niagara) has not been defined,” said Oliveto. “Actually, it (the Buffalo State experience) will definitely help. I am used to having a lot on my plate. I have not done travel before, so there will be some extra added pressure. If we go on the road and something gets screwed up, it will be on me.”

Even what seems like a minor endeavor, such as arranging meals for a hungry coaching staff and 20 players on the road, can be a tumultuous experience.

“If the dinners are not good, everyone will look at me,” said Oliveto, who laughed, but at the same time also is feeling some pressure regarding this important responsibility.

 

[Squarebanks]

It's not made up ... The biggest issue isn't even travel during the year ... it's the playoffs. If Fairbanks makes the playoffs, suddenly you have to schedule 30 flights on one week's notice to Alaska. Try doing that some time - and see how expensive it is.

Rick Comley loved going to Alaska on short notice back in March!

Kidding aside, no sympathy for teams having to do a playoff series in AK...us and UAA have every right to be rewarded like everyone else. If other teams don't like it, win more games in the regular season.