WCHA, CCHA talk merger (08-03-11)

[dggoddard]

Re: WCHA, CCHA talk merger (08-03-11)

Either way UND, UMD, DU etc. lose the Twin Cities market and it is the most important recruiting market west of Chicago. By losing the Twin Cities my guess is the new conference will have a harder time trying to penetrate it. As time goes by I bet more Minnesota kids choose to stay in state so their families and friends can watch them play within four hours of home.

Elite recruits will go anywhere that gives them the best shot of making the NHL.

DU only had one player on the roster from Minnesota last season who played any meaningful minutes [John Lee] and still finished four spots higher in the WCHA standings than the Gophers.

http://www.uscho.com/stats/roster/denver/mens-hockey/2010-2011/

The most important recruiting area in the country are non-traditional hockey markets west of the Mississippi. As long as DU continues to lock up kids from St. Louis, Las Vegas, Phoenix, Colorado & California they will be better than the Gophers.

 

[scsutommyboy]

Re: WCHA, CCHA talk merger (08-03-11)

Don't get me wrong. Loss of exposure of a program is never a good thing, and I for one will miss terribly the Final Five and seeing UND play a lot of games close to Grand Forks.

But in the last 10 seasons, this is the roster of Twin Cities kids who have chosen to play at UND:

Brandon Bochenski
Brendan Connelly
Ryan Connelly
Scott Foyt (Andover, MN)
Matt Smaby
Todd Alexander
Taylor Chorney
Joe Finley
Ben Blood
Corey Fienhage
Joe Gleason
Danny Kristo

While there are some very good players on that list (and some forgettable ones as well) it's not like the Twin Cities is the primary source, or even a major source, of players for UND.

It's also interesting to see that at least lately, it's almost exclusively defenesmen, which I hadn't really thought about.

I never said in this post or any other that UND wouldn't be a good team or find players. My point was if the good players who have gone to UND, CC, UNO and Denver(not many go to Denver) don't go there any more and they go to Minnesota schools it is only going to help and the Minnesota schools won't be as bad off as people think they will be.

 

[scsutommyboy]

Re: WCHA, CCHA talk merger (08-03-11)

Elite recruits will go anywhere that gives them the best shot of making the NHL.

DU only had one player on the roster from Minnesota last season who played any meaningful minutes [John Lee] and still finished four spots higher in the WCHA standings than the Gophers.

http://www.uscho.com/stats/roster/denver/mens-hockey/2010-2011/

The most important recruiting area in the country are non-traditional hockey markets west of the Mississippi. As long as DU continues to lock up kids from St. Louis, Las Vegas, Phoenix, Colorado & California they will be better than the Gophers.

That's why I said in my original post DU wouldn't be hurt by this because they don't get Minnesota kids........

 

[komey1]

Re: WCHA, CCHA talk merger (08-03-11)

So many WCHA and CCHA people (fans, administrators, etc) have played that "what's best for college hockey card. But it's funny, because some of the same people that were unhappy that Michigan and MSU didn't want to play them anymore because they weren't big enough or glamorous enough, are now opposed to playing Mercyhurst or Robert Morris because those schools arent big enough or glamorous enough. If they no do what's "best for college hockey," the WCHA will admit Alaska-Fairbanks, the CCHA will add Mercyhurst, Robert Morris, Canisius, Niagara and Alabama Huntsville. The big question is will those who talk about doing what's best, actually do what's best at this point?

From what I understand from readng various threads is that the AHA 4 won't go to the CCHA if Fairbanks is in the conference - NOT that the remnents of the CCHA don't want them. The CCHA is wise to consider a merger as an option - but the price they pay is consolidating the auto-bids.

If the CCHA was really about doing what's best for hockey, they would have already admitted Huntsville so we know where they really stand on "what's best for college hockey". The rough thing is that AHA commissioner Bob DiGregorio said that some people said he should do "what's best for college hockey" to admit Niagara and Robert Morris. Apparently nobody did that with the CCHA or they didn't cave in to admit Huntsville.

 

[davyd83]

Re: WCHA, CCHA talk merger (08-03-11)

From what I understand from readng various threads is that the AHA 4 won't go to the CCHA if Fairbanks is in the conference - NOT that the remnents of the CCHA don't want them. The CCHA is wise to consider a merger as an option - but the price they pay is consolidating the auto-bids.

If the CCHA was really about doing what's best for hockey, they would have already admitted Huntsville so we know where they really stand on "what's best for college hockey". The rough thing is that AHA commissioner Bob DiGregorio said that some people said he should do "what's best for college hockey" to admit Niagara and Robert Morris. Apparently nobody did that with the CCHA or they didn't cave in to admit Huntsville.

Im pretty certain you are correct about the AHA-4 and UAF. As far as the Huntsville thing, since then the league has lost MSU, the school from Ann Arbor, OSU, Miami, UNO and NMU and are on the verge of losing WMich, Notre Dame and possibly Fairbanks. Some of the biggest opponents of a move to admit Huntsville or Wayne State are gone and there has been a huge shift.

 

[komey1]

Re: WCHA, CCHA talk merger (08-03-11)

Im pretty certain you are correct about the AHA-4 and UAF. As far as the Huntsville thing, since then the league has lost MSU, the school from Ann Arbor, OSU, Miami, UNO and NMU and are on the verge of losing WMich, Notre Dame and possibly Fairbanks. Some of the biggest opponents of a move to admit Huntsville or Wayne State are gone and there has been a huge shift.

I will say this, Huntsville's best chance for a conference is that the AHA 4 join the CCHA. Then I would apply to both CCHA and AHA (being a backup plan). It seems clear that Huntsville's viability will soon hang in the balance without a conference. They need to get into one.

 

[Biddco]

Re: WCHA, CCHA talk merger (08-03-11)

So many WCHA and CCHA people (fans, administrators, etc) have played that "what's best for college hockey card. But it's funny, because some of the same people that were unhappy that Michigan and MSU didn't want to play them anymore because they weren't big enough or glamorous enough, are now opposed to playing Mercyhurst or Robert Morris because those schools arent big enough or glamorous enough. If they no do what's "best for college hockey," the WCHA will admit Alaska-Fairbanks, the CCHA will add Mercyhurst, Robert Morris, Canisius, Niagara and Alabama Huntsville. The big question is will those who talk about doing what's best, actually do what's best at this point?

Well stated. The "what's best for college hockey card" is played as a cover for butt hurt. Couldn't agree more with you here. There is definitely some hypocrisy is some of the leagues are saying.

 

[The Rube]

Re: WCHA, CCHA talk merger (08-03-11)

Taking and swapping are not the same thing.

Hey, we gave them beads and trinkets.

And I think UND/DU did a crappy thing by forming their own conference. Do I disagree with the real reasoning (money)? Yes, but I understand it, and it sucks. Do I disagree with the spin reasoning (create a new and dynamic conference to help the sport grow)? Oh hell yes, it's bullsh*. Oh, I feel the same way about the BTHC.

 

[redhead18]

Re: WCHA, CCHA talk merger (08-03-11)

Some info from the WCHA/CCHA meeting today in Chicago:

http://www.stcloudstate.edu/athleti...tory.asp?pubID=36&issueID=31013&storyID=36057

Notre Dame was not at the meeting but WMU was.

In attendance at the joint meeting were administrators from the University of Alaska Anchorage, University of Alaska Fairbanks, Bemidji State University, Bowling Green State University, Ferris State University, Lake Superior State University, Michigan Technological University, Minnesota State University, Mankato, Northern Michigan University, St. Cloud State University and Western Michigan University.

 

[Schlacker Rat]

Re: WCHA, CCHA talk merger (08-03-11)

It does not take an idiot to realize.... With Notre Dame proximity to Chicago and them being a no-show, speaks volumes. They just might as well come right out now and say goodbye!

 

[darker98]

Re: WCHA, CCHA talk merger (08-03-11)

It does not take an idiot to realize.... With Notre Dame proximity to Chicago and them being a no-show, speaks volumes. They just might as well come right out now and say goodbye!

As if them saying goodbye was in question?

 

[4four4]

Re: WCHA, CCHA talk merger (08-03-11)

Some info from the WCHA/CCHA meeting today in Chicago:

http://www.stcloudstate.edu/athleti...tory.asp?pubID=36&issueID=31013&storyID=36057

Notre Dame was not at the meeting but WMU was.

“One crucial thing that came out of the joint meeting today was the word ‘commitment’. All of these institutions are totally committed to fielding the most competitive and successful programs possible and to provide the best possible experience for their student-athletes.”

If all the schools are commited can we all agree nobody is folding their program?

 

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: WCHA, CCHA talk merger (08-03-11)

If all the schools are commited can we all agree nobody is folding their program?

Would expect them to come out of that meeting and say, "some of us are on shaking ground and might not survive this transition?" Why on earth would AHA teams be willing to leave for the CCHA if programs announced that they might be folding in 10 years?

 

[bronconick]

Re: WCHA, CCHA talk merger (08-03-11)

Kind of nice to see that we're covering our *** on all sides instead of just (hopefully) latching on to Notre Dame.

 

[redhead18]

Re: WCHA, CCHA talk merger (08-03-11)

Heres a little more on the meeting yesterday with some additional quotes from McLeod:

http://www.sctimes.com/article/2011...St-Cloud-State-hockey-WCHA-CCHA-weigh-options

 

[4four4]

Re: WCHA, CCHA talk merger (08-03-11)

Would expect them to come out of that meeting and say, "some of us are on shaking ground and might not survive this transition?" Why on earth would AHA teams be willing to leave for the CCHA if programs announced that they might be folding in 10 years?

So you agree with me nobody is folding their program?

 

[4four4]

Re: WCHA, CCHA talk merger (08-03-11)

Heres a little more on the meeting yesterday with some additional quotes from McLeod:

http://www.sctimes.com/article/2011...St-Cloud-State-hockey-WCHA-CCHA-weigh-options

“As the talks went around the room, you could see the shake-up has caused a number of programs to re-evaluate their level of commitment to their hockey program. On some campuses, that’s been a real good thing.”

It is about time. Now it is swim or drown and I believe they all swim.

 

[JDUBBS1280]

Elite recruits will go anywhere that gives them the best shot of making the NHL.

DU only had one player on the roster from Minnesota last season who played any meaningful minutes [John Lee] and still finished four spots higher in the WCHA standings than the Gophers.

http://www.uscho.com/stats/roster/denver/mens-hockey/2010-2011/

The most important recruiting area in the country are non-traditional hockey markets west of the Mississippi. As long as DU continues to lock up kids from St. Louis, Las Vegas, Phoenix, Colorado & California they will be better than the Gophers.

Interesting take considering as many Minnesotans have been drafted in the first two rounds of the NHL draft as there have been players from all of the non-traditional markets you listed in the last 5 years. So, how do you figure Minnesota still isn't the most important recruiting market?

Maybe you're overlooking the fact that maybe, just maybe, the Gophers problems have had much more to do with things other than talent. Not to mention, we don't even get all of the players from Minnesota.

So no, locking up the best recruits from those non-traditional markets will not ensure you will always be better than the Gophers. Dumb take.

 

[dggoddard]

Re: WCHA, CCHA talk merger (08-03-11)

So no, locking up the best recruits from those non-traditional markets will not ensure you will always be better than the Gophers. Dumb take.

DU is going to lock up another major recruit from a non-traditional market today. The verbal commitment will ensure the Gophers don't finish ahead of the Pioneers in the Pairwise for the next four years.

 

[SCSU Euro]

Re: WCHA, CCHA talk merger (08-03-11)

Heres a little more on the meeting yesterday with some additional quotes from McLeod:

http://www.sctimes.com/article/2011...St-Cloud-State-hockey-WCHA-CCHA-weigh-options

Someone call St. Cloud authorities and tell them that Mick Hatten is in distress! The only way I can see him writing an article in August about hockey is if someone's got a gun to his head.