WCHA 2015-16: So here's what we think that we know...

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: WCHA 2015-16: So here's what we think that we know...

In the rather unlikely chance ASU joins up with us paupers, I see a 12th team in our future, probably from the AHA (unless someone like WMU or Miami wants to move over for travel reasons).

If it happens, say hello to Bobby Mo.

 

[Bill]

Re: WCHA 2015-16: So here's what we think that we know...

Well I would bet that every conference has been invited down to make a presentation, not just us.
Second 11 teams is a problem but maybe we could get Robert Morris, though overall I don't like poaching from other conferences much.
That would help teams like BG, but isn't overall travel too much already. I mean won't ASU increase the travel costs?

I think they would have to subsidize travel for many of the WCHA schools to even consider them becoming a member.

 

[UAHStatman]

Re: WCHA 2015-16: So here's what we think that we know...

yeah, only because Neb-O bailed. not by design.

Except that accepting UAH would have avoided it, but whatever.

 

[beaverhockeyfan]

Re: WCHA 2015-16: So here's what we think that we know...

An odd number of teams is not as bad as people like to make it sound. With every team having two or three bye weekends and two or three non-conference series per year, it can work. You just find a way to use those two situations to get you to an even number of teams playing league series.

Is it ideal, no, but it can be done.

 

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: WCHA 2015-16: So here's what we think that we know...

An odd number of teams is not as bad as people like to make it sound. With every team having two or three bye weekends and two or three non-conference series per year, it can work. You just find a way to use those two situations to get you to an even number of teams playing league series.

Is it ideal, no, but it can be done.

obviously it can work, I remember sending a balanced* 11 team schedule to the WCHA when we were talking about only adding BSU.
*showing that teams could have a balanced schedule over a rotation of a few years excluding designated rivals.

 

[BGDrew]

Re: WCHA 2015-16: So here's what we think that we know...

The WCHA is easily the third choice for ASU and there's a big gap between two and three. I see the NCHC being the favorite, then B1G, then the Western.

I'm guessing ASU joins the NCHC, poaches Minnesota State, and the WCHA offers to Robert Morris.

 

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: WCHA 2015-16: So here's what we think that we know...

The WCHA is easily the third choice for ASU and there's a big gap between two and three. I see the NCHC being the favorite, then B1G, then the Western.

I'm guessing ASU joins the NCHC, poaches Minnesota State, and the WCHA offers to Robert Morris.

If this is so clearly true, than why on earth would they spend money on talking to them? If we honestly think the league wouldn't want them without subsidizing travel, why on earth would they spend the money to talk to them?

 

[Jimjamesak]

Re: WCHA 2015-16: So here's what we think that we know...

I always like in these "Arizona State to X conference" discussions everybody forgets about something called the Pac-12 Network...

 

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: WCHA 2015-16: So here's what we think that we know...

I always like in these "Arizona State to X conference" discussions everybody forgets about something called the Pac-12 Network...

Television is the reason the Big Ten makes sense to me...Big Ten Network can show the games in Arizona during a "normal" time in Arizona and still get it on after a normal time game in after a normal game in Eastern Time Zone...for very close.

 

[davyd83]

Not really.

It really wasn't bad. I don't recall any teams having too many scheduling problems. Each team played 4 teams four times and six teams twice.

 

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: WCHA 2015-16: So here's what we think that we know...

It really wasn't bad. I don't recall any teams having too many scheduling problems. Each team played 4 teams four times and six teams twice.

Almington and I worked it out back in 2009 using double rivals.
For the WCHA it could work like this with a 28 game conference Schedule:
Each team would play 2 teams 4 times every year as below (8 games)
UAA: UA_, ASU
UA_: ASU, UAA
MSU: BSU, MTU (or FSU)
BSU: MSU, UAH
ASU: UAA, UA_
MTU: NMU, MSU (or LSSU)
LSSU: NMU, FSU (or MTU)
NMU: MTU, LSSU
FSU: BGSU, LSSU (of MSU)
BGSU: FSU, UAH
UAH: BGSU, BSU

The rest would rotate playing the other 8 teams, 2 home/away (8 games), 3 at home (6 games), 3 on the road (6 games)

You would rotate through in some kind of rotation at least alternating between home/road and mixing in the home/away series. This rotation would even out after 8 year.

 

[BGDrew]

If this is so clearly true, than why on earth would they spend money on talking to them? If we honestly think the league wouldn't want them without subsidizing travel, why on earth would they spend the money to talk to them?

ASU doesn't at all fit into the type of schools/budget that play in the WCHA. Hell, their head coach who had never coached an NCAA game makes more than 8 WCHA head coaches. I also can't imagine schools like BG and LSSU that have grumbled about travel costs told Robertson to offer no travel subsidies for a trip that would amount to an additional plane trip for every team in the league.

ASU joining the WCHA doesn't make any financial sense for either party. That's why it's not happening.

 

[blackswampboy]

Re: WCHA 2015-16: So here's what we think that we know...

Almington and I worked it out back in 2009 using double rivals.
For the WCHA it could work like this with a 28 game conference Schedule:

You would rotate through in some kind of rotation at least alternating between home/road and mixing in the home/away series. This rotation would even out after 8 year.

Clever.
But 8 years is a long rotation. What happens to the rotation when realignments occur? Bound to be unfinished rotations and resets.
Taking a quick look at CCHA membership history (and I could have missed something), 1984-1992 and 1999-2010 were the only times where the conference was stable for as long as 8 years.

 

[manurespreader]

Re: WCHA 2015-16: So here's what we think that we know...

ASU doesn't at all fit into the type of schools/budget that play in the WCHA. Hell, their head coach who had never coached an NCAA game makes more than 8 WCHA head coaches. I also can't imagine schools like BG and LSSU that have grumbled about travel costs told Robertson to offer no travel subsidies for a trip that would amount to an additional plane trip for every team in the league.

ASU joining the WCHA doesn't make any financial sense for either party. That's why it's not happening.

I can't buy what you are so confidently selling here. There has to be some additional thing you are missing. Otherwise they wouldn't be there talking to them.

Second, you seem to think there is a big difference in leagues, kind of like AH vs the B1G, right. Except Robert Morris just beat michigan decisively, BG had a tough time in ny state getting ties, and Bemidji tied the vaunted UND somebodies.
So I'm not buying the this league vs that league crap people tend to put out. Especially from that homer Schlossmann. I mean Sacred Heart beat ASU 4-0 and the same ASU team only lost to Wisconsin by 1 goal. there is too much parity overall. Though I would really like it if Huntsville beats the crap out of CC.

 

[purpleinnebraska]

I can't buy what you are so confidently selling here. There has to be some additional thing you are missing. Otherwise they wouldn't be there talking to them.

Second, you seem to think there is a big difference in leagues, kind of like AH vs the B1G, right. Except Robert Morris just beat michigan decisively, BG had a tough time in ny state getting ties, and Bemidji tied the vaunted UND somebodies.
So I'm not buying the this league vs that league crap people tend to put out. Especially from that homer Schlossmann. I mean Sacred Heart beat ASU 4-0 and the same ASU team only lost to Wisconsin by 1 goal. there is too much parity overall. Though I would really like it if Huntsville beats the crap out of CC.

When I went to ASU, the joke was that the school motto was "A 4 year degree, and a great tan!" Of course, the admin and some big $ alums hated this perception of the school and they seem obsessed with being thought of as a prestige school. And they have a ton of money to try to change that perception, taking in almost $1 billion a year in just tuition and fees.
That's why I've thought from the start of this that it's all a vanity project. Ivies have hockey. Big 10 schools have hockey. Stanford, Cal, and Tucson Community College don't have hockey. So when it comes to a conference, I just don't see them casting their lot with the WCHA unless there are no other options. The NCHC won't be all that much higher on their wish list. They want the Big 10. If your choices are Mich Tech, Western Mich or Michigan, which one carries more prestige? (And the same applies to Kato, Cloud, and The U, for that matter.)
Now, whether the Big has any interest is another issue.

 

[manurespreader]

Re: WCHA 2015-16: So here's what we think that we know...

When I went to ASU, the joke was that the school motto was "A 4 year degree, and a great tan!" Of course, the admin and some big $ alums hated this perception of the school and they seem obsessed with being thought of as a prestige school. And they have a ton of money to try to change that perception, taking in almost $1 billion a year in just tuition and fees.
That's why I've thought from the start of this that it's all a vanity project. Ivies have hockey. Big 10 schools have hockey. Stanford, Cal, and Tucson Community College don't have hockey. So when it comes to a conference, I just don't see them casting their lot with the WCHA unless there are no other options. The NCHC won't be all that much higher on their wish list. They want the Big 10. If your choices are Mich Tech, Western Mich or Michigan, which one carries more prestige? (And the same applies to Kato, Cloud, and The U, for that matter.)
Now, whether the Big has any interest is another issue.

Someone posted on Twitter a month ago or so that they were telling recruits they were headed to the B1G. But a lot changes in a month, though I totally agree it's an ego thing.
You have to wonder, If the city can't support an NHL team, how in the heck are they going to draw enough for a D1 program.

 

[purpleinnebraska]

You have to wonder, If the city can't support an NHL team, how in the heck are they going to draw enough for a D1 program.

Oh, I don't think they can, and I don't think they care. Ohio State and Wisco both play in front of thousands of empty seats but it doesn't diminish their prestige. I should have clarified in my last overly long post: When I said this is a vanity project, I didn't mean ASU wants to be a hockey school. I meant that ASU wants to be known as a school that has hockey, among many, many other things. Being good at it, or making money at it, are inconsequential

 

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: WCHA 2015-16: So here's what we think that we know...

Clever.
But 8 years is a long rotation. What happens to the rotation when realignments occur? Bound to be unfinished rotations and resets.
Taking a quick look at CCHA membership history (and I could have missed something), 1984-1992 and 1999-2010 were the only times where the conference was stable for as long as 8 years.

the current WCHA schedule is 4 years. A balanced schedule over 8 years isn't bad for an extremely odd number like 11. Granted it isn't very balanced when you consider the relative strength of the double rivals.

 

[gfmorris]

Re: WCHA 2015-16: So here's what we think that we know...

the current WCHA schedule is 4 years. A balanced schedule over 8 years isn't bad for an extremely odd number like 11. Granted it isn't very balanced when you consider the relative strength of the double rivals.

I welcome any solution where BSU is a rival again. This forced rivalry with BG sucks.

GFM

 

[BGFan]

Re: WCHA 2015-16: So here's what we think that we know...

ASU doesn't at all fit into the type of schools/budget that play in the WCHA. Hell, their head coach who had never coached an NCAA game makes more than 8 WCHA head coaches. I also can't imagine schools like BG and LSSU that have grumbled about travel costs told Robertson to offer no travel subsidies for a trip that would amount to an additional plane trip for every team in the league.

ASU joining the WCHA doesn't make any financial sense for either party. That's why it's not happening.

Oddly enough, BGSU's president Mazey is on the board to try to bring ASU into the WCHA. So is BG still grumbling about the travel costs?