WCHA 2010-'11 through '14-'15 "rival pairs" announced

[SCSU Euro]

Re: WCHA 2010-'11 through '14-'15 "rival pairs" announced

Yes I will be attending the St. Cloud series. I think I'm staying in the dorms with one of my friends. Should be a grand ole time.

Well I'm 90% sure I'll be there Saturday, so if you want we can meet up, and I'm in for a case on who finishes with the most conference points if you are.

Well, I have been to the NHC twice: once when MN was up there a few years back (and where I was convinced that it was probably the loudest arena I had ever been in for college hockey and I'm sure the design of the arena helped that)

Sure, the design helps, but that place is just loud for you guys. Its also very loud for UND and UW, and pretty good for the rest of the WCHA. As for non-conference... not so much.

Looks like the "cluster pair" format won't be around for long.

I'd hardly say that some heresay about going to a 22 game conference schedule is saying that the format won't stay. I'm sure there are a few out there who want it, but I'd say its not a majority at all.

More nonconference games should mean more home dates and more revenue for the big boys that can afford to buy home games from smaller programs or schedule marquee match-ups with elite programs around the country.

Yeah... in times of a bad economy, and smaller schools having money issues and really, stability issues, let's set up the system to help reward the top schools even more at the cost of the little schools. Let's make college hockey REAL easy... one, 8-team conference of UW, MN, UND, Mich, Mich St. BC, BU, and UNH. That make everyone happy?

Follow the money....

Yeah, but for most of the teams, they won't pull in as much money with having more non-conference games. Let's put it this way... do more WCHA fans show up to see SCSU, CC, UMD and MSU-M come into their barn, or the equivalency of those teams, from far away, without many fans, in a game that dosn't affect their conference standings?

I guess we'll have to see how it all shakes out, but obviously a 28 game schedule that's unbalanced with teams potentially having significantly different WCHA S.O.S. is a pretty silly idea.

Look, some years you might get an easier draw, but I'm sure there will be years where fans go in saying, "Oh, this is our year" thinking two teams won't be very good, and they have great years. Remember the years UMD and MSU-M came out of nowhere? The point is, having more conference games in my opinion gives a more balanced showing of where you're at. Nobody in the WCHA is a team that all you have to do is lace up your skates to beat. Also, you should ALWAYS have a team you play four times a year. There should be that rivalry. With the current situation, there's nobody paired with anyone that's HORRIBLY out of their league. Hell, I'm a fan of a team that is arguably the most outmatched year in and year out by their rival, and I don't want that system to go away. And at least with the current system everyone gets 14 home and 14 away games. You think its fair to give somebody 12 games at home, 10 on the road for their conference schedule? I'm sure everyone would be basing their season predictions on who has the "home" year schedule.

I enjoy the meatgrinder aspect of it though. The second half of the WCHA season is as intense as you're going to see in hockey. Especially with the familiarity of the teams. Most of the second half series are against teams that played each other in the first half of the season, which always makes things more interesting.

In mid-February, would you rather see your team play a Wisconsin or North Dakota in a series where four points could move your team up three places in the standings, or would you rather see them play two random games against UMass-Lowell or Merrimack that don't mean anything?

Could not agree with that post more!

 

[dogs2012]

Re: WCHA 2010-'11 through '14-'15 "rival pairs" announced

Well I'm 90% sure I'll be there Saturday, so if you want we can meet up, and I'm in for a case on who finishes with the most conference points if you are.

I will hopefully be there both days, although I was recently informed that is is fall break for students and that nobody will be staying in the dorms. This puts a little bit of a damper on my plans. As for everything else you were saying, I agree completely. How can the larger schools expect teams like Tech, UAA, and even UMD, SCSU, and MSU-M to bring in top notch HE teams every year? An unbalanced schedule really makes no sense. Also, a television program that has had no bearing on college hockey thus far, and never has really showed much of an interest should have no say in what college hockey does. Last time I checked, there wasn't a big 10 hockey conference. A couple of the schools don't even have D-1 hockey. Sounds like a horrible plan to me.

 

[moose97]

Re: WCHA 2010-'11 through '14-'15 "rival pairs" announced

I'd hardly say that some heresay about going to a 22 game conference schedule is saying that the format won't stay. I'm sure there are a few out there who want it, but I'd say its not a majority at all.

I'd have to agree with this (and I guess this is what I ment when I said, "what makes you think BSU, Minn State, SCSU, UMD, et. all are all that willing to 'give up' the UND, UMinn and UWisc 'crack pipe?'"

Re-read the origional "blog-entry":

I spoke with Steve Cobb last night and he told me that the issue of a future 22 game conference schedule was/is "on the table". A brief discsussion revealed one very surprising WCHA member that isn't currently in favor of such a change. In any case, I'll just say that the issue isn't likely to go away and certain television pressures may increase the chances for it to happen. Going to a 22 game conference schedule after UNO and Bemidji join would be a very positive change for the UAA program.

emphasis mine

I'm sure there are a lot of things "on the table" at WCHA meetings. I'm also sure that a lot of them never see the light of day.

Now, I don't know if a proposal like this needs a simple majority, or the 7 of 10 (or, now 8 of 12 - 2/3 majority) schools to approve it, but, can anyone make a case where six, let alone eight WCHA schools think this is a good idea?

 

[blockski]

Re: WCHA 2010-'11 through '14-'15 "rival pairs" announced

I enjoy the meatgrinder aspect of it though. The second half of the WCHA season is as intense as you're going to see in hockey. Especially with the familiarity of the teams. Most of the second half series are against teams that played each other in the first half of the season, which always makes things more interesting.

In mid-February, would you rather see your team play a Wisconsin or North Dakota in a series where four points could move your team up three places in the standings, or would you rather see them play two random games against UMass-Lowell or Merrimack that don't mean anything?

If the WCHA and college hockey as a whole went to a setup with fewer conference games and more non-conference games (a good thing, IMO), you'd likely have those games, like basketball, early in the season, not in mid-February.

With a 22 game schedule, the writing's on the wall. 12 teams playing 28 games, while still keeping the 2 game series, is going to be so unbalanced that you won't have a lot of times where you play a team late in the season that you already played earlier...

 

[Puck Swami]

Re: WCHA 2010-'11 through '14-'15 "rival pairs" announced

I could see October and November stacked with non-conference games, with most conference tilts in starting in early December, then a break for tourneys and x-mas, followed by a conference-heavy January and Feburary. This way, a team has an opportunity to play its way into shape for conference play, as they do in hoops. Right now, I think conference play begins too early, before a team can really integrate new faces and establish itself.

I think we'd have a better season as a result, with a more level playing field.

 

[dggoddard]

Re: WCHA 2010-'11 through '14-'15 "rival pairs" announced

The 22 game schedule is still "unbalanced" with either 5 or 6 home series and 6 or 5 road series, so I still don't like it.

I would propose a 24 game schedule as a compromise. One series against every team in the conference and an extra series against the existing WCHA "rival."

This would free up a few extra non-conference games, but allow plenty of conference games to decide the race fairly.

 

[Slap Shot]

Re: WCHA 2010-'11 through '14-'15 "rival pairs" announced

Good teams find ways to win despite their schedule and imbalances should even out over time. I can't imagine an imbalance so great that a team, "destined for 4th" is going to be had by a team, "destined for 6th" without the level of play contributing far more to the results than the schedule itself. The last thing I will do is whine if in one season the Gophers had to play UND and UW 4 times each while SCSU or DU didn't.

 

[4four4]

Re: WCHA 2010-'11 through '14-'15 "rival pairs" announced

That being said, I think DU will sell more tickets for games against Harvard, Cornell, BC & other eastern schools than the smaller WCHA programs.

DU has problems with attendance for every school outside of CC.

 

[SCSU Euro]

Re: WCHA 2010-'11 through '14-'15 "rival pairs" announced

With a 22 game schedule, the writing's on the wall. 12 teams playing 28 games, while still keeping the 2 game series, is going to be so unbalanced that you won't have a lot of times where you play a team late in the season that you already played earlier...

You won't have a lot, in fact, you'll only play 3 teams in two different series, but its not impossible. First off, with everyone seeing teams fewer times, I think that everyone should (or at least try, I realize its not always possible) end their conference play with their rival, and alternate each year which barn they end it at.

I would propose a 24 game schedule as a compromise. One series against every team in the conference and an extra series against the existing WCHA "rival."

I still don't like cutting out 4 conference games, because as it was stated, who wants to lose good rivalry games to get Lowell and Bowling Green?, but at least with 24 you'd get two HUGE things 1) every team would get the same number of home vs. away games and 2) you'd get a rival you play 4 times every year.

So I'd scream about the 24 game regular season, but not nearly as loud as the 22 game season.

 

[dggoddard]

Re: WCHA 2010-'11 through '14-'15 "rival pairs" announced

DU has problems with attendance for every school outside of CC.

DU sold out every regular season game between 2004-2007.

 

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: WCHA 2010-'11 through '14-'15 "rival pairs" announced

DU sold out every regular season game between 2004-2007.

so DU sold out every regular season game for 3 seasons...and you blame the "smaller WCHA schools" for your attendance issues? Sounds like you're nothing but a bunch of fair weather fans

 

[scsutommyboy]

Re: WCHA 2010-'11 through '14-'15 "rival pairs" announced

No way will the CCHA schools want to give 3 prime dates with Michigan, Michigan State, Ohio State, Miami & Notre Dame each season. Plus they'll never get elite non-conference schools to visit Bowling Green, Ferris, Lake State, Western & Northern Michigan.

I'm going to respectfully disagree with this.

DU, Minnesota, UND & Sconnie are going to get games with whomever they want back east. Obviously DU will get them based on Gwozdecky's network of friends and buddies.

In the past five years DU has played non-conference games against...

2004-05
Minnesota (HOF game)
BC
Northeastern

2005-06
Maine
Notre Dame
BU
UMass

2006-07
Miami
RPI
Umass-Lowell

2007-08
Maine
Notre Dame
Dartmouth

2008-09
Notre Dame (HOF game)
Ohio State
BU

2009-10
Vermont
Ohio State
BC

I said you won't get any more non conference games with elite teams than you get now because no other conference is going to have extra games. If all conferences have less games then I can see it happening.

 

[scsutommyboy]

Re: WCHA 2010-'11 through '14-'15 "rival pairs" announced

The CCHA will never willingly agree to less conference games. None of the small CCHA members want to give up the Michigan, Michigan State, Notre Dame & Ohio State crack pipe.

If Michigan and Michigan state say they want less conference games so they can play Minnesota and Wisconsin more then it will happen. I am pretty sure that is the only reason for the WCHA to go to a 22 game schedule.

 

[blockski]

Re: WCHA 2010-'11 through '14-'15 "rival pairs" announced

The 22 game schedule is still "unbalanced" with either 5 or 6 home series and 6 or 5 road series, so I still don't like it.

I would propose a 24 game schedule as a compromise. One series against every team in the conference and an extra series against the existing WCHA "rival."

This would free up a few extra non-conference games, but allow plenty of conference games to decide the race fairly.

Yes, 24 games would be easier in many respects. 6 home series, 6 road series - You play every team for one series, except for your rival, who you play 2 series.

I could see October and November stacked with non-conference games, with most conference tilts in starting in early December, then a break for tourneys and x-mas, followed by a conference-heavy January and Feburary. This way, a team has an opportunity to play its way into shape for conference play, as they do in hoops. Right now, I think conference play begins too early, before a team can really integrate new faces and establish itself.

I think we'd have a better season as a result, with a more level playing field.

Agreed. I think it would provide a lot more qualitative intermixing between the conferences, as well as quantitative intermixing of the PWR.

There are lots of possible benefits. It makes big conferences somewhat ungainly, perhaps making smaller ones more attractive and stable.

I wrote up a long list of reasons to consider it a while back:

http://board.uscho.com/showthread.php?t=77561

You won't have a lot, in fact, you'll only play 3 teams in two different series, but its not impossible. First off, with everyone seeing teams fewer times, I think that everyone should (or at least try, I realize its not always possible) end their conference play with their rival, and alternate each year which barn they end it at.



I still don't like cutting out 4 conference games, because as it was stated, who wants to lose good rivalry games to get Lowell and Bowling Green?, but at least with 24 you'd get two HUGE things 1) every team would get the same number of home vs. away games and 2) you'd get a rival you play 4 times every year.

So I'd scream about the 24 game regular season, but not nearly as loud as the 22 game season.

The thing is, with 12 teams, a shorter conference season is actually closer to balanced than a longer one.

 

[dggoddard]

Re: WCHA 2010-'11 through '14-'15 "rival pairs" announced

so DU sold out every regular season game for 3 seasons...and you blame the "smaller WCHA schools" for your attendance issues? Sounds like you're nothing but a bunch of fair weather fans

True.

Denver and perhaps Colorado Springs & Anchorage to a greater degree have different issues than other schools in the conference. Smaller alumni bases, less ardent hockey fans ect.

Magness Arena is designed to expand by over 2,000 seats on the East Grandstand. I'd like to see that happen and with good marketing, a good working relationship with the WCHA and careful planning it might one day become a reality.

 

[bigblue_dl]

Re: WCHA 2010-'11 through '14-'15 "rival pairs" announced

True.

Denver and perhaps Colorado Springs & Anchorage to a greater degree have different issues than other schools in the conference. Smaller alumni bases, less ardent hockey fans ect.

Magness Arena is designed to expand by over 2,000 seats on the East Grandstand. I'd like to see that happen and with good marketing, a good working relationship with the WCHA and careful planning it might one day become a reality.

Anchorage has a small alumni base? If I'm not mistaken, Anchorage has the third largest enrollment in the conference. When you graduate a bunch of people, you usually creat a large alumni base....And I'm pretty sure there are plenty of dedicated hockey fans in Alaska. Anchorage's problem is that the team sucks and the arena sucks.

 

[4four4]

Re: WCHA 2010-'11 through '14-'15 "rival pairs" announced

DU sold out every regular season game between 2004-2007.

So what about 2008 to present?

 

[Puck Swami]

Re: WCHA 2010-'11 through '14-'15 "rival pairs" announced

So what about 2008 to present?

http://letsgodu.blogspot.com/2008/07/du-hockey-is-8th-in-country-in.html

Eighth nationally at 5,933 in an arena that seats 6,026 or about 98% of capacity..

 

[Flashy Man]

Re: WCHA 2010-'11 through '14-'15 "rival pairs" announced

Attention Bemidjians February 11th and 12th will be Winter Carnival at Michigan Tech.

 

[SCSU Euro]

Re: WCHA 2010-'11 through '14-'15 "rival pairs" announced

Anchorage has a small alumni base? If I'm not mistaken, Anchorage has the third largest enrollment in the conference. When you graduate a bunch of people, you usually creat a large alumni base....And I'm pretty sure there are plenty of dedicated hockey fans in Alaska. Anchorage's problem is that the team sucks and the arena sucks.

But don't Anchorage alum do the same as St. Cloud alum.... get the hell away from the town they went to school in?

I'm just kidding... I have no idea if UAA alum have a high percentage stick around the area, but its an idea I throw out there. Most SCSU graduates don't stay in St. Cloud, but luckily a lot go to the Cities, and that's not far at all. Hell, look at the posters in SCSU's season thread... very few of us still live in Stearns County.