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Utica College Pioneers 2012-13 Season

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Re: Utica College Pioneers 2012-13 Season

Fishman'81 said:
All D-3 at-large bids are granted from a smoke-filled room, but the NCAA has done a much better job lately of gleaning the gold from the pan.

I agree that the Hobart games are key. Right now, the Statesmen are looking (on paper) to be the best team in the East, but Utica has them twice at home...
Click to expand...
what happens if hobart beats utica and oswego beat hobart and utica beat oswego........oh boy:eek:...who should be ranked where:p
 
Re: Utica College Pioneers 2012-13 Season

Hey guys,
I know that many of the UC faithful are fed up with the USCHO rankings.
Why not go over to D3boards.com and strike up the conversation over there.
They are the most comprehensive all D3 sports boards and have a great following!
 
Re: Utica College Pioneers 2012-13 Season

Fishman'81 said:
Can't make it there, but kindly give us a little travelogue of your experience, if you will. (Cortland is a sub-.500 team, but has been in every game they've played. Not a cupcake IMO, by any means.)

We're thinking seriously of heading to Springfield to see UC/WNEC on Sunday, as long as the weather cooperates for the round-trip. My only real reservation about going is in regards to Smead Rink, which appears to have sight-lines that are about on-par with The Cooler... Smead is a publicly-owned facility that apparently wasn't designed to be a sports venue.

Anyway, it's only about two hours from here, and I'll post a few comments if we make the trip. We enjoy visiting obscure colleges for UC games, even though an eerie silence usually prevails.
Click to expand...

Thank you, I would appreciate any updates from Springfield, MA you could give us on here! We should have a decent group of UC fans at Cortland on Friday night to cheer on the boys, hopefully we can do the same for the WNEC game!
 
Re: Utica College Pioneers 2012-13 Season

Fishman'81 said:
All D-3 at-large bids are granted from a smoke-filled room, but the NCAA has done a much better job lately of gleaning the gold from the pan.

I agree that the Hobart games are key. Right now, the Statesmen are looking (on paper) to be the best team in the East, but Utica has them twice at home...
Click to expand...

As a Hobart fan, I agree that the upcoming UC / Hobart games are HUGE....if only one ECAC-W team gets in this series could likely determine which team gets the invite. Keep in mind these teams COULD square off four times before the season is over (if they meet in the ECAC-W tourney)....and end up in a 2-2 split. BTW - Not sure what to make of UC's 3-0 sweep of Hobart last season? Like to say that is "old news"...BUT ??? :confused:

So....
Can M'ville finish strong and end up ranked in the East? Can Neumann build on their current 3-game win streak and also end up ranked? Don't laugh - they've won three straight and have a kid in net that may steal some more big games before it is over. If Nuemann and M'ville both get ranked (along with Hobart and Utica) it would make many of the second half ECAC-W games far more relevant (i.e. who wins the UC/Hobart head to head in "record vs ranked opponents"). Also - I've got to wonder if the young Elmira team doesn't start to gel late and and relish the role of "spoiler"?:eek:

Can't help it...years of being an ECAC-W fan has trained me to assume parity will be the norm!:p
 
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Re: Utica College Pioneers 2012-13 Season

Fishman'81 said:
All D-3 at-large bids are granted from a smoke-filled room, but the NCAA has done a much better job lately of gleaning the gold from the pan.

I agree that the Hobart games are key. Right now, the Statesmen are looking (on paper) to be the best team in the East, but Utica has them twice at home...
Click to expand...

Not to mention if there's one number in the ECAC West that Utica knows how to dial, it's Hobart's. A combined 6-0 in the last 2 seasons and the bulk of that roster is still intact, as is Hobart's. It will be interesting to see how the roster improvements for Hobart will help them in that matchup. Olson, Gamache, and Webster cannot be taken lightly. Those kids are GOOD and the goaltending is playing out of its mind. Broadwater looks very, very good right now.

However, they did have some injury trouble going into break and did elect to take a european trip over the holiday break rather than play nonconference games. Only time will tell whether or not the extra games will help or hurt them in the scope of this season. They could very well be out of gas in Feburary, but we shall see how it plays out. every team responds differently to that type of schedule density.

Also should advertise here that i will have the call from the road friday as the pioneers visit cortland. Pregame will begin at 6:30 PM.

http://www.utica.edu/wpnr907
 
Re: Utica College Pioneers 2012-13 Season

fisheralum91 said:
Hey guys,
I know that many of the UC faithful are fed up with the USCHO rankings.
Why not go over to D3boards.com and strike up the conversation over there.
They are the most comprehensive all D3 sports boards and have a great following!
Click to expand...

The endorsed rankings over there make even less sense that the human polls here. Why bother to make the trip?
 
Re: Utica College Pioneers 2012-13 Season

Fishman'81 said:
The endorsed rankings over there make even less sense that the human polls here. Why bother to make the trip?
Click to expand...
It is less about rankings and more about an all encompassing D3 sport board.
Pat and his guys really do a nice job in moderating thought provoking conversations and it really is a conduit for everything that is D3 Sports.
You should check them out.
 
Re: Utica College Pioneers 2012-13 Season

fisheralum91 said:
Hey guys,
I know that many of the UC faithful are fed up with the USCHO rankings.
Why not go over to D3boards.com and strike up the conversation over there.
They are the most comprehensive all D3 sports boards and have a great following!
Click to expand...

What does a poll voted on by coaches have anything to do with a message board?
 
Re: Utica College Pioneers 2012-13 Season

Not sure exactly what the conversation has turned-into here, but clearly the coaches/media poll is silly at best... I'll bet that 85% of the voters have never seen 25% of the teams that they vote for, and that's a generous estimate in both respects.

The NCAA puts out D-3 rankings late in the year that look suspiciously similar to the PWR in recent years, and seem to use those to make their AL selection... I don't have a problem with that at all- it's made for better choices- but one has to wonder about the secrecy involved. (Maybe it's a plagiarism issue?)

In the meantime, we all can pull whatever rankings we please from our framma-zammas.

Who cares, anyway..? Most of the stuff I've seen makes as little sense as the coaches' poll, so why not just pass the time until The Wizard pulls back the curtain and enlightens us all as to the results, if not as to the criteria, involved?

I know I'm starting early this year, but D-3 needs to come up with a transparent selection process, FCS. If nothing else, that would reduce a lot of hot-air emissions about meaningless polls.
 
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Re: Utica College Pioneers 2012-13 Season

Fishman'81 said:
Not sure exactly what the conversation has turned-into here, but clearly the coaches/media poll is silly at best... I'll bet that 85% of the voters have never seen 25% of the teams that they vote for, and that's a generous estimate in both respects.

The NCAA puts out D-3 rankings late in the year that look suspiciously similar to the PWR in recent years, and seem to use those to make their AL selection... I don't have a problem with that at all- it's made for better choices- but one has to wonder about the secrecy involved. (Maybe it's a plagiarism issue?)

In the meantime, we all can pull whatever rankings we please from our framma-zammas.

Who cares, anyway..? Most of the stuff I've seen makes as little sense as the coaches' poll, so why not just pass the time until The Wizard pulls back the curtain and enlightens us all as to the results, if not as to the criteria, involved?

I know I'm starting early this year, but D-3 needs to come up with a transparent selection process, FCS. If nothing else, that would reduce a lot of hot-air emissions about meaningless polls.
Click to expand...

The criteria are well known

Winning percentage
Strength of Schedule (OWP * (2/3), OOWP * (1/3))
Head to Head
Record against Common Opponents
Record against Ranked Teams (NCAA regional rankings, not USCHO or d3hockey.com)

The problem is that the committee is free to weight the criteria any way they want to, the weight they give can vary from one pair of teams to another.
 
NUProf said:
The criteria are well known

Winning percentage
Strength of Schedule (OWP * (2/3), OOWP * (1/3))
Head to Head
Record against Common Opponents
Record against Ranked Teams (NCAA regional rankings, not USCHO or d3hockey.com)

The problem is that the committee is free to weight the criteria any way they want to, the weight they give can vary from one pair of teams to another.
Click to expand...

The record against NCAA ranked teams is where it can make or break you. That's where you can really play around with things and change comparisons. The rest of the criteria is pretty much straight forward.
 
Re: Utica College Pioneers 2012-13 Season

I apologize if this has been mentioned earlier in the Thread, but I picked up a copy of New York Hockey Journal this afternoon. The January 2013 edition featured a list of the "Top 10 college hockey rinks in New York and New Jersey." Utica Memorial Auditorium was No. 8.

At the bottom of its description, the article continues...

"A number of other Division 3 rinks are worthy of mention here, including Hamilton's Sage Rink (the second-oldest building in college hockey after Hobey Baker at Princeton), Elmira College's Murray Athletic Center, Plattsburgh's Stafford Ice Arena and Oswego's Campus Center Hockey Arena. However, if you make just one trip to a Division 3 barn, the Aud is the place to see."
 
Re: Utica College Pioneers 2012-13 Season

CardsFan91 said:
I apologize if this has been mentioned earlier in the Thread, but I picked up a copy of New York Hockey Journal this afternoon. The January 2013 edition featured a list of the "Top 10 college hockey rinks in New York and New Jersey." Utica Memorial Auditorium was No. 8.

At the bottom of its description, the article continues...

"A number of other Division 3 rinks are worthy of mention here, including Hamilton's Sage Rink (the second-oldest building in college hockey after Hobey Baker at Princeton), Elmira College's Murray Athletic Center, Plattsburgh's Stafford Ice Arena and Oswego's Campus Center Hockey Arena. However, if you make just one trip to a Division 3 barn, the Aud is the place to see."
Click to expand...

You mean "The Cooler" didn't make the list? They put up a 4th wall and closed the rink in....what the hell else do they need to do to get some respect? :p
 
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Re: Utica College Pioneers 2012-13 Season

CardsFan91 said:
I apologize if this has been mentioned earlier in the Thread, but I picked up a copy of New York Hockey Journal this afternoon. The January 2013 edition featured a list of the "Top 10 college hockey rinks in New York and New Jersey." Utica Memorial Auditorium was No. 8.

At the bottom of its description, the article continues...

"A number of other Division 3 rinks are worthy of mention here, including Hamilton's Sage Rink (the second-oldest building in college hockey after Hobey Baker at Princeton), Elmira College's Murray Athletic Center, Plattsburgh's Stafford Ice Arena and Oswego's Campus Center Hockey Arena. However, if you make just one trip to a Division 3 barn, the Aud is the place to see."
Click to expand...

Im curious what the rest of the top 10 was. Could you post it?
 
Re: Utica College Pioneers 2012-13 Season

NUProf said:
The criteria are well known

Winning percentage
Strength of Schedule (OWP * (2/3), OOWP * (1/3))
Head to Head
Record against Common Opponents
Record against Ranked Teams (NCAA regional rankings, not USCHO or d3hockey.com)

The problem is that the committee is free to weight the criteria any way they want to, the weight they give can vary from one pair of teams to another.
Click to expand...

...And that's a HUGE problem, Prof!

If the committee can tinker with the metrics in such a way as to make a de-facto selection of their own, then why even bother to pretend that they are employing a blind and transparent formula..? It's the most recent and cynical incarnation of The Emperor's New Clothes, and we long-suffering D-3 fans are still at the mercy of the committee's whims.


To wit: the D-3 selection "criteria" are tailored precisely after the PWR (RPI, SOS, H2H and TUC) but without the set-in-stone objectivity that the PWR was developed to impose in the first place... So, to refer to them as "criteria" perverts the definition of the word, since they can be manipulated at will to guarantee any desired outcome.

Ergo, there is still no incumbent accountability to be assigned to anyone in this dubious process. The game, the players, the schools and the fans all deserve better than having to wait to see how this shell-game plays-out every year.


PS: Before anyone goes apoplectic, I will allow that the past couple of years' NCAA inclusions all deserved to get in... But they all would have done so anyway, on the basis of the PWR, and without necessitating a few guys meeting behind closed doors to fiddle with things. Guess that was my point. ;-)
 
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Re: Utica College Pioneers 2012-13 Season

Fishman'81 said:
...And that's a HUGE problem, Prof!

If the committee can tinker with the metrics in such a way as to make a de-facto selection of their own, then why even bother to pretend that they are employing a blind and transparent formula..? It's the most recent and cynical incarnation of The Emperor's New Clothes, and we long-suffering D-3 fans are still at the mercy of the committee's whims.


To wit: the D-3 selection "criteria" are tailored precisely after the PWR (RPI, SOS, H2H and TUC) but without the set-in-stone objectivity that the PWR was developed to impose in the first place... So, to refer to them as "criteria" perverts the definition of the word, since they can be manipulated at will to guarantee any desired outcome.

Ergo, there is still no incumbent accountability to be assigned to anyone in this dubious process. The game, the players, the schools and the fans all deserve better than having to wait to see how this shell-game plays-out every year.


PS: Before anyone goes apoplectic, I will allow that the past couple of years' NCAA inclusions all deserved to get in... But they all would have done so anyway, on the basis of the PWR, and without necessitating a few guys meeting behind closed doors to fiddle with things. Guess that was my point. ;-)
Click to expand...

I wouldn't disagree with you on that. The problem with the D3 selection process is that it one that is mandated for all D3 sports - all of them have the criteria and procedures - the one thing that add to this is a provision (which may or may not have changed - joe keeps up on this better than I do) that game between teams of different regions don't count for inclusion in the metrics, except as "secondary criteria" (which means the committee can consider them if they can't reach a decision on the comparison of two teams after looking at the primary criteria). Most of us have advocated for a more transparent selection process. The other issue is that the process is broken down by regions first and then put together after the two regions have made their rankings...this creates a whole new opportunity for sleaziness - it happened last year.
 
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