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Utica College Pioneers 2011-2012
- Thread starter jcase
- Start date
Re: Utica College Pioneers 2011-2012
Edit: 2nd period underway.
Just for you, one of my favorite Elmira fans. Linky thingy bob
Edit: 2nd period underway.
Fishman'81
Black Bear since D-2
Re: Utica College Pioneers 2011-2012
I understand your frustration, and I hope you understand mine. I am tired of this conversation, too.
I've been to hundreds of Utica games since Day One of the program. That doesn't make me a D-3 maven per se, but I'm not a newcomer to D-3, either. There has (admittedly) been little reason for me to examine the selection process during that span, except in '05 when UC won the RS W. Their exclusion from the NCAAs baffled me that year, so I looked into it...
I got it then and I get it now; it's all about the AQs, the proscribed D-3 ratios regarding the number of teams invited, etc., composing the bulk of the field. That much has been well understood for some time, although I have my issues with it.
My ongoing question was, and always has been: Is there any degree of predictability involved in the selection of the few AL teams invited? Period.
I visited the not-to-be-named, triple-secret website
, and I saw some mysterious rankings and some interesting opinions offered, but there was nothing there that illuminated the process of picking the AL teams... And I clicked on every single button/link that I could find, in search of The Grail. Nothing was there but conjecture.
So, NUProf was right a while ago; this is a stupid debate in which to engage oneself, because there is clearly nothing objective upon which to hang one's hat, no matter what side you take... I'm as tired of it as you very astute SUNYAC visitors must be.
Having said that, Utica now has a clear path to the NC... All they need to do is to beat NU at home on Wednesday, take out Elmira in The Domes on Saturday, and thrash Hobart or M'ville in the tournament final. Simple stuff!
(No way the NCAA will exclude an 18-8 team with the best SOS in the whole, wide, D-3 world, right???)
I understand your frustration, and I hope you understand mine. I am tired of this conversation, too.
I've been to hundreds of Utica games since Day One of the program. That doesn't make me a D-3 maven per se, but I'm not a newcomer to D-3, either. There has (admittedly) been little reason for me to examine the selection process during that span, except in '05 when UC won the RS W. Their exclusion from the NCAAs baffled me that year, so I looked into it...
I got it then and I get it now; it's all about the AQs, the proscribed D-3 ratios regarding the number of teams invited, etc., composing the bulk of the field. That much has been well understood for some time, although I have my issues with it.
My ongoing question was, and always has been: Is there any degree of predictability involved in the selection of the few AL teams invited? Period.
I visited the not-to-be-named, triple-secret website
, and I saw some mysterious rankings and some interesting opinions offered, but there was nothing there that illuminated the process of picking the AL teams... And I clicked on every single button/link that I could find, in search of The Grail. Nothing was there but conjecture.So, NUProf was right a while ago; this is a stupid debate in which to engage oneself, because there is clearly nothing objective upon which to hang one's hat, no matter what side you take... I'm as tired of it as you very astute SUNYAC visitors must be.
Having said that, Utica now has a clear path to the NC... All they need to do is to beat NU at home on Wednesday, take out Elmira in The Domes on Saturday, and thrash Hobart or M'ville in the tournament final. Simple stuff!
(No way the NCAA will exclude an 18-8 team with the best SOS in the whole, wide, D-3 world, right???)
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Pioneers#1
Just call me Pio#1....
Re: Utica College Pioneers 2011-2012
Oh, is that all they need to do?
...and yes, one would hope a team with an 18-8-2 record wouldn't be excluded from the NCAA Tourny. But then again, it is Utica and the chances are slim.
I understand your frustration, and I hope you understand mine. I am tired of this conversation, too.
I've been to hundreds of Utica games since Day One of the program. That doesn't make me a D-3 maven per se, but I'm not a newcomer to D-3, either. There has (admittedly) been little reason for me to examine the selection process during that span, except in '05 when UC won the RS W. Their exclusion from the NCAAs baffled me that year, so I looked into it...
I got it then and I get it now; it's all about the AQs, the proscribed D-3 ratios regarding the number of teams invited, etc., composing the bulk of the field. That much has been well understood for some time, although I have my issues with it.
My ongoing question was, and always has been: Is there any degree of predictability involved in the selection of the few AL teams invited? Period.
I visited the not-to-be-named, triple-secret website
So, NUProf was right a while ago; this is a stupid debate in which to engage oneself, because there is clearly nothing objective upon which to hang one's hat, no matter what side you take... I'm as tired of it as you very astute SUNYAC visitors must be.
Having said that, Utica now has a clear path to the NC... All they need to do is to beat NU at home on Wednesday, take out Elmira in The Domes on Saturday, and thrash Hobart or M'ville in the tournament final. Simple stuff!
(No way the NCAA will exclude an 18-8 team with the best SOS in the whole, wide, D-3 world, right???)
Oh, is that all they need to do?
...and yes, one would hope a team with an 18-8-2 record wouldn't be excluded from the NCAA Tourny. But then again, it is Utica and the chances are slim.
CARDS_rule_the_Burgh
Nate LePage, Siena '13
Re: Utica College Pioneers 2011-2012
In general yes, there is some degree of predictability, in the sense that we know exactly what numbers the Championship Committee and the two Regional Rankings Committees look at. However, each regional committee can weight those numbers as they see fit to produce the rankings for that region, and those rankings are not changed once the regional committee sends them to the Championship Committee. It is the Championship Committee that determines the AL bids, using the same list of criteria that the regional committees used, as well as the rankings themselves. I don't believe they can give an AL bid to one team while skipping over another that is ranked higher in the same region, but it IS possible that they could all go to, say, E4, E5, and E6 while W1, W2, and W3 sit at home, if the Championship Committee's weighting merits it. The important thing to note is that the weighting can be different in any direct comparison of two teams, they need not necessarily maintain a consistent weighting on any particular year.
What that means is this: Predictability? To an extent. The criteria used by everyone along the way are spelled out for us. The Regional Rankings are provided to us except in that final week. And those who have been paying attention for some time (such as Josh, the guy who wrote that article on the "competitor" website) are can recognize certain tendencies the committee has shown over the years. But as he said in the original bracketology column, nobody has ever been 100% accurate in their prediction of what the committees would do. (Last year he and Webb were 100% on the WHO, picking a UWS team that everybody else was ignoring, but they were slightly off on the matchups and bracket.)
I understand your frustration, and I hope you understand mine. I am tired of this conversation, too.
I've been to hundreds of Utica games since Day One of the program. That doesn't make me a D-3 maven per se, but I'm not a newcomer to D-3, either. There has (admittedly) been little reason for me to examine the selection process during that span, except in '05 when UC won the RS W. Their exclusion from the NCAAs baffled me that year, so I looked into it...
I got it then and I get it now; it's all about the AQs, the proscribed D-3 ratios regarding the number of teams invited, etc., composing the bulk of the field. That much has been well understood for some time, although I have my issues with it.
My ongoing question was, and always has been: Is there any degree of predictability involved in the selection of the few AL teams invited? Period.
I visited the not-to-be-named, triple-secret website
So, NUProf was right a while ago; this is a stupid debate in which to engage oneself, because there is clearly nothing objective upon which to hang one's hat, no matter what side you take... I'm as tired of it as you very astute SUNYAC visitors must be.
Having said that, Utica now has a clear path to the NC... All they need to do is to beat NU at home on Wednesday, take out Elmira in The Domes on Saturday, and thrash Hobart or M'ville in the tournament final. Simple stuff!
(No way the NCAA will exclude an 18-8 team with the best SOS in the whole, wide, D-3 world, right???)
In general yes, there is some degree of predictability, in the sense that we know exactly what numbers the Championship Committee and the two Regional Rankings Committees look at. However, each regional committee can weight those numbers as they see fit to produce the rankings for that region, and those rankings are not changed once the regional committee sends them to the Championship Committee. It is the Championship Committee that determines the AL bids, using the same list of criteria that the regional committees used, as well as the rankings themselves. I don't believe they can give an AL bid to one team while skipping over another that is ranked higher in the same region, but it IS possible that they could all go to, say, E4, E5, and E6 while W1, W2, and W3 sit at home, if the Championship Committee's weighting merits it. The important thing to note is that the weighting can be different in any direct comparison of two teams, they need not necessarily maintain a consistent weighting on any particular year.
What that means is this: Predictability? To an extent. The criteria used by everyone along the way are spelled out for us. The Regional Rankings are provided to us except in that final week. And those who have been paying attention for some time (such as Josh, the guy who wrote that article on the "competitor" website) are can recognize certain tendencies the committee has shown over the years. But as he said in the original bracketology column, nobody has ever been 100% accurate in their prediction of what the committees would do. (Last year he and Webb were 100% on the WHO, picking a UWS team that everybody else was ignoring, but they were slightly off on the matchups and bracket.)
At this point the only Lock's for Pool C are Oswego, Norwich and Amherst, assuming any of those 3 lose the AQ
Re: Utica College Pioneers 2011-2012
Is this just because Utica is only one point away from last place in their conference? That's dumb. Don't you know the Aud sells BEER!
Is this just because Utica is only one point away from last place in their conference? That's dumb. Don't you know the Aud sells BEER!
well if those 3 teams I listed all lose their AQ than they are pretty much guaranteed to all receive Pool C Bids. they would take all 3 and there isn't a 4th to give to anyone else, therefore they are the only Locks to get into the Tournament. Assuming that everyone else who should get a Pool A does, There are still a few Teams in front of Utica for Pool C.
Re: Utica College Pioneers 2011-2012
I think it's more the fact that to some people pool C bid distribution is not a laughing matter.
Re: Utica College Pioneers 2011-2012
Even if you think your conference is "the toughest of all time."
Edit: I do believe utica will get in if they win the W tourney. But, do they have to play Neumann again?
All the more reason you shouldn't finish one point out of last place in your conference and expect one...
Even if you think your conference is "the toughest of all time."
Edit: I do believe utica will get in if they win the W tourney. But, do they have to play Neumann again?
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Re: Utica College Pioneers 2011-2012
I really wish people would stop with the ECAC-W being the "Toughest Conference", and to add "of all time" ? Come on, it is one of the toughest, but not THE toughest, although by looking at the final standings, every team are capable of taking standings position away from any of the others, just look what Hobart did, no one expected that. UC winning the Conference Title still does not guarantee a bid, live with it!
I really wish people would stop with the ECAC-W being the "Toughest Conference", and to add "of all time" ? Come on, it is one of the toughest, but not THE toughest, although by looking at the final standings, every team are capable of taking standings position away from any of the others, just look what Hobart did, no one expected that. UC winning the Conference Title still does not guarantee a bid, live with it!
CARDS_rule_the_Burgh
Nate LePage, Siena '13
Re: Utica College Pioneers 2011-2012
Guys, I'm pretty sure altazo's comments today were all fairly tongue-in-cheek, just so you know
Guys, I'm pretty sure altazo's comments today were all fairly tongue-in-cheek, just so you know