brookyone
Deport Right Wing Nuts
Re: US National Teams: U30s & Mrs. Potter, U22s, U18s Part II
D%#& Minnesota bias again...
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US National Teams: U30s & Mrs. Potter, U22s, U18s Part II
- Thread starter Hux
- Start date
HockeyEast33
New member
Re: US National Teams: U30s & Mrs. Potter, U22s, U18s Part II
Thanks - see that the link is working now!!
No Rachlin or Flug (latter not even invited to festival) from last year's team - surprising on both. 8 Minnesotans and the Princeton recruit get named to the team - no bias there...
Oh, my bad, it should have been 22 Minnesotans because no one else in the US deserves to be on the ice with them ....
Thanks - see that the link is working now!!
No Rachlin or Flug (latter not even invited to festival) from last year's team - surprising on both. 8 Minnesotans and the Princeton recruit get named to the team - no bias there...
Oh, my bad, it should have been 22 Minnesotans because no one else in the US deserves to be on the ice with them ....
Re: US National Teams: U30s & Mrs. Potter, U22s, U18s Part II
If there is in fact some kind of bias then you have to look at who picks the team. In looking at the Team Staff I see that the Director of Women's Hockey is from Georgia, and that the Head Coach, the USA Hockey Scout and Coordinator of Player Development and the Strength and Conditioning Coach are all from Massachusetts, as is one of the two Assistant Coaches. Oh my, I do see that the other Assistant Coach is from Minnesota, so I guess he must be in charge of naming the team.
Oh, my bad, it should have been 22 Minnesotans because no one else in the US deserves to be on the ice with them ....
If there is in fact some kind of bias then you have to look at who picks the team. In looking at the Team Staff I see that the Director of Women's Hockey is from Georgia, and that the Head Coach, the USA Hockey Scout and Coordinator of Player Development and the Strength and Conditioning Coach are all from Massachusetts, as is one of the two Assistant Coaches. Oh my, I do see that the other Assistant Coach is from Minnesota, so I guess he must be in charge of naming the team.
Re: US National Teams: U30s & Mrs. Potter, U22s, U18s Part II
Look, not only are you not a coach/scout...you clearly haven't even seen any of these kids play. The "Princeton recruit" deserves to be there. Period. I don't get why you keep exaggerating the possibility of a bias.
Thanks - see that the link is working now!!
No Rachlin or Flug (latter not even invited to festival) from last year's team - surprising on both. 8 Minnesotans and the Princeton recruit get named to the team - no bias there...
Oh, my bad, it should have been 22 Minnesotans because no one else in the US deserves to be on the ice with them ....
Look, not only are you not a coach/scout...you clearly haven't even seen any of these kids play. The "Princeton recruit" deserves to be there. Period. I don't get why you keep exaggerating the possibility of a bias.
YabaDabaDoo
New member
ARM
Fan of chipmunk-like mascots.
Re: US National Teams: U30s & Mrs. Potter, U22s, U18s Part II
I have no knowledge specific to the player you are discussing, but beyond the obvious case of a prep no longer qualifying based on the age restriction, there have been players that could not participate in the process due to injury or a schedule conflict. I'm not enough of an insider to know whether a player not making a roster is due to something on the player's end or a decision by a selection committee. Given that the the head coach is different, it is possible that the staff was looking for different types of players.
Re: US National Teams: U30s & Mrs. Potter, U22s, U18s Part II
One stat that tends to back up Call It (I don't know any of the players at issue) is the DOB breakdown. Despite picking over three calendar years, only 1 player out of 22 born in the last quartile of the calendar year (October 9, 1995) and close to 80% born in the first half. That suggests that the coaches are picking the 96 and 97 players for the experience not their level of play unless for unknown biological reasons deserving players are not born late in the calendar year in this three year age grouping in general or 1995 specifically. It also suggests that evaluations done when the players are young (14, 15) follow the player through the process.
One stat that tends to back up Call It (I don't know any of the players at issue) is the DOB breakdown. Despite picking over three calendar years, only 1 player out of 22 born in the last quartile of the calendar year (October 9, 1995) and close to 80% born in the first half. That suggests that the coaches are picking the 96 and 97 players for the experience not their level of play unless for unknown biological reasons deserving players are not born late in the calendar year in this three year age grouping in general or 1995 specifically. It also suggests that evaluations done when the players are young (14, 15) follow the player through the process.
Re: US National Teams: U30s & Mrs. Potter, U22s, U18s Part II
Also it's very possible (and even probable) that some players will make greater strides in their game over the course of a year than other players, especially at this age. Combine this with the possibility of a real good showing when the right people are watching and it's easy to understand why some can improve their standing while others stay the same or perhaps even go in the other direction. Not saying that's the case here at all; just pointing out that it can happen.
Also it's very possible (and even probable) that some players will make greater strides in their game over the course of a year than other players, especially at this age. Combine this with the possibility of a real good showing when the right people are watching and it's easy to understand why some can improve their standing while others stay the same or perhaps even go in the other direction. Not saying that's the case here at all; just pointing out that it can happen.
Re: US National Teams: U30s & Mrs. Potter, U22s, U18s Part II
Roster for U22 Go Figure
U22 Team
Rigsby 92 G
Slebodnick 92 G
Schleper 90 D
Kelter 91 D
Bozak 91 D
Gedman 92 D
Ramsey 92 D
Pucci 93 D
Picard 93 D
Stecklein 94 D
M. Lamoureux 89 F
J. Lamoureux 89 F
Erickson 90 F
Steadman 90 F
Decket 91 F
Dempsey 91 F
Dougherty 91 F
Fry 91 F
Coyne 92 F
Brandt 93 F
Savage 94 F
Skarupa 94 F
Roster for U22 Go Figure
U22 Team
Rigsby 92 G
Slebodnick 92 G
Schleper 90 D
Kelter 91 D
Bozak 91 D
Gedman 92 D
Ramsey 92 D
Pucci 93 D
Picard 93 D
Stecklein 94 D
M. Lamoureux 89 F
J. Lamoureux 89 F
Erickson 90 F
Steadman 90 F
Decket 91 F
Dempsey 91 F
Dougherty 91 F
Fry 91 F
Coyne 92 F
Brandt 93 F
Savage 94 F
Skarupa 94 F
HockeyEast33
New member
Re: US National Teams: U30s & Mrs. Potter, U22s, U18s Part II
With a few exceptions, I have seen this age group of girls (94-97) play A LOT for many years. One of the exceptions is this girl because she has not been at a lot of high level USA Hockey events .... which is kind of the point. As I noted earlier, she may have had a breakout year, but the coincidence between her first all-star game/national festival and her future college coach coaching the U18 team is hard to miss, just like the last 2national team coaches having disproportionate numbers of players from their own schools on the team is hard to miss. Regardless, her performance in the U18 series will now speak for itself.
Another interesting question is whether USA Hockey should be using their national team spots on players whose primary, or at least equal, allegiance lies to another sport. One POV is that the best players should make the team. The other is that if a player is not fully committed to hockey, then they shouldn't be considered for a national team. I don't have a strong opinion on this one - legitimate points to make on both sides of that discussion. However, the days of multisport women's Division 1 athletes are fast coming to an end (unlike Division 3 where it is still pretty common due to the more restricted seasons).
With a few exceptions, I have seen this age group of girls (94-97) play A LOT for many years. One of the exceptions is this girl because she has not been at a lot of high level USA Hockey events .... which is kind of the point. As I noted earlier, she may have had a breakout year, but the coincidence between her first all-star game/national festival and her future college coach coaching the U18 team is hard to miss, just like the last 2national team coaches having disproportionate numbers of players from their own schools on the team is hard to miss. Regardless, her performance in the U18 series will now speak for itself.
Another interesting question is whether USA Hockey should be using their national team spots on players whose primary, or at least equal, allegiance lies to another sport. One POV is that the best players should make the team. The other is that if a player is not fully committed to hockey, then they shouldn't be considered for a national team. I don't have a strong opinion on this one - legitimate points to make on both sides of that discussion. However, the days of multisport women's Division 1 athletes are fast coming to an end (unlike Division 3 where it is still pretty common due to the more restricted seasons).
96IllinoisDad
New member
Apparently, you haven't been to A LOT of USA hockey national championship tournaments. That girl was a dominant force for her team in 2012 (2nd place U19), 2011 (2nd place U16), 2009 (3rd place u14), 2008 (3rd place u12).
No. She did not have a break out year this year. She has been dominant since u12. I have watched her play for years at high level showcases against quality teams.
Re: US National Teams: U30s & Mrs. Potter, U22s, U18s Part II
I don't know her or have never seen her play.
Her line for the 2012 U19 Tier 1 National Championships was 6 games 1 goal and 3 asst for 4pts and 8 penalty min.
I don't know her or have never seen her play.
Her line for the 2012 U19 Tier 1 National Championships was 6 games 1 goal and 3 asst for 4pts and 8 penalty min.
OnMAA
Vort Doen.....Heija Heija Heija
Re: US National Teams: U30s & Mrs. Potter, U22s, U18s Part II
U22 would be 91 born or later. Looks to be a U24 team.
U22 would be 91 born or later. Looks to be a U24 team.
ARM
Fan of chipmunk-like mascots.
Re: US National Teams: U30s & Mrs. Potter, U22s, U18s Part II
The lines for the U22 seem to be much more gray than they are for U18, perhaps because there isn't any world championship riding on it. The only competition seems to be this summer exhibition series and the Meco Cup or whatever it will be called this time, and the rosters for that are senior teams for everyone but Canada. Even the Canadians have used a more "veteran" player from time to time, so the countries must have some working agreement as to when the age restriction can be eased.U22 would be 91 born or later. Looks to be a U24 team.
Re: US National Teams: U30s & Mrs. Potter, U22s, U18s Part II
Link to the formal U22 roster: http://usahockey.cachefly.net/2012%20U22%20Womens%20Roster%20-%20Series%20vs%20Canada.pdf
Link to the formal U22 roster: http://usahockey.cachefly.net/2012%20U22%20Womens%20Roster%20-%20Series%20vs%20Canada.pdf
Re: US National Teams: U30s & Mrs. Potter, U22s, U18s Part II
It looks like we're back to confusion about whether Sunday's U-18 game is at 9 a.m. or 10 a.m. local (Central) time. The newest post put out by USA Hockey says it's at 10 a.m. Eastern, which would put it at 9 a.m. Central. That's in direct contradiction of their post yesterday that said 10 a.m. Central.
It looks like we're back to confusion about whether Sunday's U-18 game is at 9 a.m. or 10 a.m. local (Central) time. The newest post put out by USA Hockey says it's at 10 a.m. Eastern, which would put it at 9 a.m. Central. That's in direct contradiction of their post yesterday that said 10 a.m. Central.
Re: US National Teams: U30s & Mrs. Potter, U22s, U18s Part II
USA Hockey Women’s Under-22 Roster – 2012 Series vs. Canada – August 16-19, 2012
No Name Ht (cm) Wt (kg) Birthdate S/C Hometown Most Recent Team
GOALTENDERS (2)
1 Alex Rigsby 5-7 (170) 160 (72) 1/3/92 L Delafield, Wis. University of Wisconsin (WCHA)
29 Lauren Slebodnick 5-8 (172) 150 (68) 1/23/92 L Manchester, N.H. Cornell University (ECAC)
DEFENSEMEN (8)
18 Megan Bozek 5-9 (175) 170 (77) 3/27/91 R Buffalo Grove, Ill. University of Minnesota (WCHA)
3 Marissa Gedman 5-9 (175) 180 (81) 3/12/92 L Framingham, Mass. Harvard University (ECAC)
5 Leyla Kelter 5-8 (172) 150 (68) 3/21/91 R Eagle River, Alaska University of Wisconsin (WCHA)
23 Michelle Picard 5-6 (167) 150 (68) 5/27/93 L Taunton, Mass. Harvard University (ECAC)
24 Josephine Pucci 5-8 (172) 150 (68) 12/27/90 R Pear River, N.Y. Harvard University (ECAC)
9 Rachel Ramsey 6-0 (182) 150 (68) 10/14/92 L Chanhassen, Minn. University of Minnesota (WCHA)
15 Anne Schleper 5-10 (177) 170 (77) 1/30/90 L St. Cloud, Minn. Boston Blades (CWHL)
4 Lee Stecklein 5-11 (180) 160 (72) 4/23/94 L Roseville, Minn. University of Minnesota (WCHA)
FORWARDS (12)
20 Hannah Brandt 5-8 (172) 170 (77) 11/27/93 R Vadnais Heights, Minn. University of Minnesota (WCHA)
26 Kendall Coyne 5-2 (157) 130 (59) 5/25/92 L Palos Heights, Ill. Northeastern University (HEA)
14 Brianna Decker 5-4 (163) 150 (68) 5/13/91 R Dousman, Wis. University of Wisconsin (WCHA)
22 Jillian Dempsey 5-4 (163) 135 (61) 1/19/91 L Winthrop, Mass. Harvard University (ECAC)
8 Sarah Erickson 5-6 (167) 150 (68) 3/28/90 R Roseau, Minn. University of Minnesota (WCHA)
28 Lyndsey Fry 5-7 (170) 165 (75) 10/30/92 R Chandler, Ariz. Harvard University (ECAC)
17 Jocelyne Lamoureux 5-6 (167) 155 (70) 7/3/89 R Grand Forks, N.D. University of North Dakota (WCHA)
7 Monique Lamoureux 5-6 (167) 155 (70) 7/3/89 R Grand Forks, N.D. University of North Dakota (WCHA)
10 Paige Savage 5-8 (174) 150 (68) 7/25/94 L Carrollton, Texas Northeastern University (HEA)
13 Haley Skarupa 5-6 (167) 140 (63) 1/3/94 R Rockville, Md. Boston College (HEA)
19 Jordan Smelker 5-8 (172) 150 (68) 6/19/92 L Anchorage, Alaska Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute (ECAC)
21 Kelley Steadman 5-11 (180) 160 (72) 7/17/90 R Plattsburgh, N.Y. Boston Blades (CWHL)
USA Hockey Women’s Under-22 Roster – 2012 Series vs. Canada – August 16-19, 2012
No Name Ht (cm) Wt (kg) Birthdate S/C Hometown Most Recent Team
GOALTENDERS (2)
1 Alex Rigsby 5-7 (170) 160 (72) 1/3/92 L Delafield, Wis. University of Wisconsin (WCHA)
29 Lauren Slebodnick 5-8 (172) 150 (68) 1/23/92 L Manchester, N.H. Cornell University (ECAC)
DEFENSEMEN (8)
18 Megan Bozek 5-9 (175) 170 (77) 3/27/91 R Buffalo Grove, Ill. University of Minnesota (WCHA)
3 Marissa Gedman 5-9 (175) 180 (81) 3/12/92 L Framingham, Mass. Harvard University (ECAC)
5 Leyla Kelter 5-8 (172) 150 (68) 3/21/91 R Eagle River, Alaska University of Wisconsin (WCHA)
23 Michelle Picard 5-6 (167) 150 (68) 5/27/93 L Taunton, Mass. Harvard University (ECAC)
24 Josephine Pucci 5-8 (172) 150 (68) 12/27/90 R Pear River, N.Y. Harvard University (ECAC)
9 Rachel Ramsey 6-0 (182) 150 (68) 10/14/92 L Chanhassen, Minn. University of Minnesota (WCHA)
15 Anne Schleper 5-10 (177) 170 (77) 1/30/90 L St. Cloud, Minn. Boston Blades (CWHL)
4 Lee Stecklein 5-11 (180) 160 (72) 4/23/94 L Roseville, Minn. University of Minnesota (WCHA)
FORWARDS (12)
20 Hannah Brandt 5-8 (172) 170 (77) 11/27/93 R Vadnais Heights, Minn. University of Minnesota (WCHA)
26 Kendall Coyne 5-2 (157) 130 (59) 5/25/92 L Palos Heights, Ill. Northeastern University (HEA)
14 Brianna Decker 5-4 (163) 150 (68) 5/13/91 R Dousman, Wis. University of Wisconsin (WCHA)
22 Jillian Dempsey 5-4 (163) 135 (61) 1/19/91 L Winthrop, Mass. Harvard University (ECAC)
8 Sarah Erickson 5-6 (167) 150 (68) 3/28/90 R Roseau, Minn. University of Minnesota (WCHA)
28 Lyndsey Fry 5-7 (170) 165 (75) 10/30/92 R Chandler, Ariz. Harvard University (ECAC)
17 Jocelyne Lamoureux 5-6 (167) 155 (70) 7/3/89 R Grand Forks, N.D. University of North Dakota (WCHA)
7 Monique Lamoureux 5-6 (167) 155 (70) 7/3/89 R Grand Forks, N.D. University of North Dakota (WCHA)
10 Paige Savage 5-8 (174) 150 (68) 7/25/94 L Carrollton, Texas Northeastern University (HEA)
13 Haley Skarupa 5-6 (167) 140 (63) 1/3/94 R Rockville, Md. Boston College (HEA)
19 Jordan Smelker 5-8 (172) 150 (68) 6/19/92 L Anchorage, Alaska Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute (ECAC)
21 Kelley Steadman 5-11 (180) 160 (72) 7/17/90 R Plattsburgh, N.Y. Boston Blades (CWHL)
twointhebox
New member
Re: US National Teams: U30s & Mrs. Potter, U22s, U18s Part II
We can all write on the boards and complain about the decisions, but the true victims are the girls who get to scratch their heads and try to figure out the "why" in all this. Why does a U22 team turn into a U24 team? There's probably a reason that makes perfect sense to whoever has the power at the time, unfortunately neither we, or the girls will ever know. There is a certain comfort in transparency and protocol. I believe our girls play ice hockey and don't figure skate because they like it better that the team with the most goals wins; it doesn't matter what score the Russian judge gives you in the short program. Not only do the girls face the proverbial Russian judge on a regular basis, but they change that guy every couple of months just to make sure no one has any idea what's on the score card. Does anyone really believe that the somehow motivation to be better comes out of a sense of chaos? Beating the Canadians in international competition is not likely until everybody gets on the same page and decision making power has a single direction.
We can all write on the boards and complain about the decisions, but the true victims are the girls who get to scratch their heads and try to figure out the "why" in all this. Why does a U22 team turn into a U24 team? There's probably a reason that makes perfect sense to whoever has the power at the time, unfortunately neither we, or the girls will ever know. There is a certain comfort in transparency and protocol. I believe our girls play ice hockey and don't figure skate because they like it better that the team with the most goals wins; it doesn't matter what score the Russian judge gives you in the short program. Not only do the girls face the proverbial Russian judge on a regular basis, but they change that guy every couple of months just to make sure no one has any idea what's on the score card. Does anyone really believe that the somehow motivation to be better comes out of a sense of chaos? Beating the Canadians in international competition is not likely until everybody gets on the same page and decision making power has a single direction.