US Foreign Policy 3.0: We're The Mets of International Diplomacy

[French Rage]

Danes are done screwing around: https://twitter.com/M_B_Petersen/status/1500535154569539584

 

[Russell Jaslow]

Sounds like Poland isn't going to transfer MIGs


https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zo...rested-in-transferring-its-mig-29s-to-ukraine

Of course the cynic in me says this is a negotiating ploy…

 

[Handyman]

I guess we can chalk Handy up as in favor of killing 9 million.

You are something else. You call me Neville Chamberlain because I want us to take a soft tact originally and you now say I want millions to die because I don't want Ukrainians killed while we watch like we always do. For as much grief as you give Drew your posts are just as erratic and ridiculous.

Its funny and yet kinda sad at the same time.

You are a friggin fraud.

 

[Handyman]

Well, starting WWIII isn't the way.

Maybe, for once, give an actual idea. Life is easy when you just lob insults at everyone and then say nothing of value rufus.

note: this is where rufus will say something belligerant, accuse me and others of something that has no basis in any of the arguments, and contribute literally nothing to the discussion. Honestly, it wouldn't surprise me if he was actually Drew just playing the other side of the argument.

edit: from now on I will call them both Drewfus :^D

 

[Handyman]

Braver than I. If I'm wrong I'm just gonna leave my phone in the house and go for a long walk to my mailbox and wait for some manilla envelopes to be dropped off... haha.

I will pour a big glass of whiskey and post tweets ;^)

 

[Handyman]

But what difference does that makes against the valid you point you make about ending the world? Why would you kill 8 billion people for a scrap of paper?

Well, and I dont want to speak for dx or you for that matter, I think it comes down to what you think Putin is really capable of. If you think he is only going to destroy the world if provoked then it is best to lay back and just do what we are doing. If you fear he is all in no matter what happens then as you say it is just a scrap of paper the lack of treaty means nothing.

Personally, I think Putin's endgame is a suicide pact. He is the obsessed estranged husband saying "if I can't have you no one will" but it isn't just Ukraine it is everything he thinks is Russia's to own. (Ukraine, Crimea, Belarus, probably Lithuania...etc.) I don't think he will back down because his position relies on his strength. Like Trump, failure proves he is not who he needs people to believe he is. The only outcome of the Ukraine war he will accept is full Ukraine submission. If he can't get that he has no issue putting Europe under a radiation cloud provoked or not. Justification won't matter when he is dead...which he would be if he went nuclear.

dx does not think that way if I read his posts right. As such to him we need to prevent any actions that could lead to that point. He thinks he can negotiate with the hostage taker...which I hope to God he is right about.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Yes, I agree with your assessment in general. But a few key changes:
1. The red button has a complex chain even in Russia. They've averted that button twice now with people defying orders. I'll bet on it again. Hard to push that button when you know your family is incinerated with it.
2. We're much more likely to see a "Nyet" somewhere in that chain if they are pushing the button without NATO aggression. If there is NATO aggression, all bets are off.
3. I think there are off-ramps for Putin. Most are going to be very distasteful for a lot of the world, especially Ukrainians. But I believe they exist. I won't list them because it's way, way beyond hypothetical.

 

[Kepler]

Yes, I agree with your assessment in general. But a few key changes:
1. The red button has a complex chain even in Russia. They've averted that button twice now with people defying orders. I'll bet on it again. Hard to push that button when you know your family is incinerated with it.
2. We're much more likely to see a "Nyet" somewhere in that chain if they are pushing the button without NATO aggression. If there is NATO aggression, all bets are off.
3. I think there are off-ramps for Putin. Most are going to be very distasteful for a lot of the world, especially Ukrainians. But I believe they exist. I won't list them because it's way, way beyond hypothetical.

That seems reasonable.

I'd like to propose that after this is over the West rebuilds Ukraine and makes it whole out of our own treasure, to the point of with large sacrifices. That way at least we can say "we actually did give a sh-t, it wasn't just naked self-interest."

 

[Kepler]

An editorial in favor of a partial No Fly Zone to the west and over Kyiv.

Note this would at least cover the refugee paths which are currently being deliberately bombarded by Putin to create a maximal humanitarian catastrophe.

 

[walrus]

It's not shocking that many of the Rank & File Russians believe what they are told from State TV and that open sourced "internet information" can't be relied upon.

This is the front that needs to be won in the next few election cycles around the world. Basically young vs old.

https://twitter.com/hackingbutlegal...qVyKn0Yv1s7Qyn2AcIdswU9aQwxq5ruMw3m6uaPHaxAP4

Not sure where this came from originally but its being passed around as real??

In the US social media is slowly killing us. It seems if you follow someone they are telling the truth no matter what.

 

[aparch]

An editorial in favor of a partial No Fly Zone to the west and over Kyiv.

Note this would at least cover the refugee paths which are currently being deliberately bombarded by Putin to create a maximal humanitarian catastrophe.

Isnt that what I asked for a day ago? For that reason?

 

[SonofSouthie]

In the US social media is slowly killing us

Mentally, yes. And not just US.

 

[rufus]

You are something else. You call me Neville Chamberlain because I want us to take a soft tact originally and you now say I want millions to die because I don't want Ukrainians killed while we watch like we always do. For as much grief as you give Drew your posts are just as erratic and ridiculous.

Its funny and yet kinda sad at the same time.

You are a friggin fraud.

I call you Neville Chamberlain because you whine and whine about how there's nothing to be done about anything. Again here, first you whine and whine about how Putin held all the cards, and there's nothing the west can do about it. And now, your brilliant solution is starting WWIII.

There are other options. Maybe you should start investigating them. Instead of being a big puss.

 

[rufus]

Maybe, for once, give an actual idea. Life is easy when you just lob insults at everyone and then say nothing of value rufus.

Well now ain't that calling the kettle black.

"We can't do anything. The Dems are spineless. We've all lost. Game over man!!!!"

Maybe I don't pretend to have all the answers, like some on here. But I do know stupid when I see it.

 

[Drew S.]

Maybe, for once, give an actual idea. Life is easy when you just lob insults at everyone and then say nothing of value rufus.

note: this is where rufus will say something belligerant, accuse me and others of something that has no basis in any of the arguments, and contribute literally nothing to the discussion. Honestly, it wouldn't surprise me if he was actually Drew just playing the other side of the argument.

edit: from now on I will call them both Drewfus :^D

I’ve been accused of being multiple Maine head coaches so it makes sense I would be accused of being another poster. In this case I take it as a massive compliment ; )

 

[dxmnkd316]

That seems reasonable.

I'd like to propose that after this is over the West rebuilds Ukraine and makes it whole out of our own treasure, to the point of with large sacrifices. That way at least we can say "we actually did give a sh-t, it wasn't just naked self-interest."

I think the aid package to Ukraine and Russia are going to be historically and painfully large. AS IT SHOULD BE

 

[mookie1995]

key changes:
1. The red button has a complex chain even in Russia. They've averted that button twice now with people defying orders. I'll bet on it again. Hard to push that button when you know your family is incinerated with it.

a majority of those making that decision in the ussr believe that the politicians in the usa would still balk before incinerating them there families.

 

[SonofSouthie]

They don't want much.

Russia's military said it would cease fire and open humanitarian corridors in several Ukrainian cities Monday while continuing to pound residential areas of battered cities with rocket attacks.
A third round of talks were planned for Monday after two previous negotiations proved fruitless.
Kremlin Spokesman Dmitry Peskov said Monday that Russia demands Ukraine halt its military activity, change its Constitution to include neutrality so it can't join the EU or NATO, recognize Crimea as Russian territory and recognize independence for the separatist regions of Donetsk and Lugansk.

As for opening the humanitarian corridors,

Russia had promised a cease-fire to allow safe passage for evacuees from the capital of Kyiv, the southern port city of Mariupol, and the cities of Kharkiv and Sumy. Ukraine Defense Secretary Aleksey Danilov said Russia "violates the agreements reached, blocks the opening of green corridors, does not allow humanitarian supplies –but at the same time tries to create a false picture of a 'joyful meeting' of the occupiers by local residents."

Some of the evacuation routes actually would funnel civilians toward Russia or its ally Belarus, a plan that Ukrainian Deputy Prime Minister Irina Vereshchuk called unacceptable. U.K. Europe Minister James Cleverly agreed, saying that "evacuation routes into the arms of the country that is currently destroying yours is nonsense.”

 

[rufus]

Its a start. Initially, they wanted full and complete Ukrainian surrender and supplication.

See what they offer if Ukraine holds out another week.

 

[aparch]

Its a start. Initially, they wanted full and complete Ukrainian surrender and supplication.

See what they offer if Ukraine holds out another week.

In a week Russia is going to be negotiating with the Farmers of Ukraine directly for their equipment to be returned.