ticapnews
Never graduate.
https://mobile.nytimes.com/2018/05/08/opinion/gina-haspel-questions-cia.html
Yeah, she's a real sweetheart.
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US Foreign Policy 2.0: Have you read Kipling, Mr. Tillerson?
- Thread starter joecct
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https://mobile.nytimes.com/2018/05/08/opinion/gina-haspel-questions-cia.html
Yeah, she's a real sweetheart.
Wisko McBadgerton
Teaching you how to Bucky.
Re: US Foreign Policy 2.0: Have you read Kipling, Mr. Tillerson?
Sweetheart? That's sexist!
Haspel was in Thailand (Catseye) for two and half months in late '02 -- two years before Boudchar was allegedly taken there. Haspel was working in National Resources in '04-'05 (National Resources conducts voluntary debriefs and recruits travelers and business people both foreign and domestic)
Do you know who Fatima Boudchar or her husband Abdul-Hakim Belhaj are? He was at that time, a commander of the Libyan Islamic Fighting Group, a UN declared terrorist organization and close affiliate of OBL, Al Qaida, and the Taliban. I don't personally condone what was done to them, but these folks aren't exactly complete innocents with no agenda.
Sweetheart? That's sexist!
Haspel was in Thailand (Catseye) for two and half months in late '02 -- two years before Boudchar was allegedly taken there. Haspel was working in National Resources in '04-'05 (National Resources conducts voluntary debriefs and recruits travelers and business people both foreign and domestic)
Do you know who Fatima Boudchar or her husband Abdul-Hakim Belhaj are? He was at that time, a commander of the Libyan Islamic Fighting Group, a UN declared terrorist organization and close affiliate of OBL, Al Qaida, and the Taliban. I don't personally condone what was done to them, but these folks aren't exactly complete innocents with no agenda.
ticapnews
Never graduate.
Yeah...that totally justified her being a monster. You turned me right around there.
You understand we put Japanese to death for less, right?
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solovsfett
Registered User
Re: US Foreign Policy 2.0: Have you read Kipling, Mr. Tillerson?
I do have a hard time feeling sorry for terrorists but then again we must acknowledge two BIG facts. We considered water boarding torture in WWII and persecuted the Japanese for doing that and that follows it IS torture and against not only charters but against our silly idea that we’re “the best”. Whatever the hell that means.
But looming larger over all of this is the fact we basically created our enemies in the Taliban and AQ. We arm people then declare them enemies with a stunning consistency and here is one of the worst actors in our foreign policy history at work: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kYvO3qAlyTg
And Bill Hicks with some honesty: https://youtu.be/hYWdzigyzNk
https://youtu.be/hYWdzigyzNk
I do have a hard time feeling sorry for terrorists but then again we must acknowledge two BIG facts. We considered water boarding torture in WWII and persecuted the Japanese for doing that and that follows it IS torture and against not only charters but against our silly idea that we’re “the best”. Whatever the hell that means.
But looming larger over all of this is the fact we basically created our enemies in the Taliban and AQ. We arm people then declare them enemies with a stunning consistency and here is one of the worst actors in our foreign policy history at work: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kYvO3qAlyTg
And Bill Hicks with some honesty: https://youtu.be/hYWdzigyzNk
https://youtu.be/hYWdzigyzNk
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solovsfett
Registered User
Yes. No-one needs to embellish or lie about John Foster Dulles’ or Allen Welsh Dulles’ words or actions, their treason (and other misdeeds) speaks for itself really. If FDR had lived two more years he’d have had them brought up on charges of treason and then our world would have become a better place and millions of people (including Vietnamese, Cambodians, JFK, RFK, Nicaraguans, Guatemalan’s etc) would have lived in a better world.
Wisko McBadgerton
Teaching you how to Bucky.
Re: US Foreign Policy 2.0: Have you read Kipling, Mr. Tillerson?
Not interested in turning you around.
But as a point of fact, no, we did not "put Japanese to death for less."
Not interested in turning you around.
But as a point of fact, no, we did not "put Japanese to death for less."
ticapnews
Never graduate.
https://www.motherjones.com/crime-justice/2009/04/yes-we-did-execute-japanese-soldiers-waterboarding-american-pows/
mookie1995
there's a good buck in that racket.
Woman hater.... disgusting
fixed link
Of course, let us not forget the US Army, back at the turn of the 20th century, was busy waterboarding the Moro tribesmen of the Philippines.
The Japanese regarded our treatment of the Native Americans and Filipinos as their model for dealing with the Koreans and Chinese.
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ticapnews
Never graduate.
Re: US Foreign Policy 2.0: Have you read Kipling, Mr. Tillerson?
So because we massacred Native Americans as part of Lebensraum in the 19th Century that makes torture fine in the 21st Century. So much for the human race advancing.
I suppose the Geneva Conventions are just another piece of paper we can ignore whenever we feel like it.
So because we massacred Native Americans as part of Lebensraum in the 19th Century that makes torture fine in the 21st Century. So much for the human race advancing.
I suppose the Geneva Conventions are just another piece of paper we can ignore whenever we feel like it.
Wrong again!
The Japanese used our heinous treatment to justify their heinous treatment of "lesser" races.
And since we are a signatory (passed by the Senate) the Geneva Convention is in full effect. POWs are treated nicely. Terrorists/resistance/freedom fighters are outside the GC boundaries.
Wisko McBadgerton
Teaching you how to Bucky.
Re: US Foreign Policy 2.0: Have you read Kipling, Mr. Tillerson?
That headline in this is: "Yes, We Did Execute Japanese Soldiers for Waterboarding American POWs" (Ironically, there's a plea for donations on the page to fight disinformation.)
Virginia Rep Bobby Scott made this statement in 2015 ""After World War II, we tried, convicted, and, in some cases, executed Japanese soldiers for war crimes that included charges of waterboarding." Link.
There's a significant difference in the two statements. Which of the following is true? "We executed Timothy McVeigh for charges that included destroying government property." or "We executed Timothy McVeigh for destroying government property."
Your statement that "we put Japanese to death for less" isn't true. It was for more and a lot more. The common result of water torture or forms of near drowning by the Japanese, was actual drowning. Prisoners that did survive various forms of torture were commonly murdered afterwards to cover up the fact of it having taken place.
"The major means of getting intelligence was to extract information by interrogating prisoners. Torture was an unavoidable necessity. Murdering and burying them follows naturally. You do it so you won't be found out." --Uno Shintaro, WWII Japanese Army Officer
There's no record of the US putting anyone to death specifically for nearly drowning a prisoner. If there were, no doubt it would have been uncovered and on the front page of the Times when the existence of waterboarding was first revealed years ago.
That headline in this is: "Yes, We Did Execute Japanese Soldiers for Waterboarding American POWs" (Ironically, there's a plea for donations on the page to fight disinformation.)
Virginia Rep Bobby Scott made this statement in 2015 ""After World War II, we tried, convicted, and, in some cases, executed Japanese soldiers for war crimes that included charges of waterboarding." Link.
There's a significant difference in the two statements. Which of the following is true? "We executed Timothy McVeigh for charges that included destroying government property." or "We executed Timothy McVeigh for destroying government property."
Your statement that "we put Japanese to death for less" isn't true. It was for more and a lot more. The common result of water torture or forms of near drowning by the Japanese, was actual drowning. Prisoners that did survive various forms of torture were commonly murdered afterwards to cover up the fact of it having taken place.
"The major means of getting intelligence was to extract information by interrogating prisoners. Torture was an unavoidable necessity. Murdering and burying them follows naturally. You do it so you won't be found out." --Uno Shintaro, WWII Japanese Army Officer
There's no record of the US putting anyone to death specifically for nearly drowning a prisoner. If there were, no doubt it would have been uncovered and on the front page of the Times when the existence of waterboarding was first revealed years ago.
Wisko McBadgerton
Teaching you how to Bucky.
Re: US Foreign Policy 2.0: Have you read Kipling, Mr. Tillerson?
(Now) Berkely Law Professor, John Yoo used this in part as a basis for the legality of the Greystone program, arguing that International Law applied to States and State actors, a group to which Al Qaida and OBL, etc. did not belong. He also argued that in war, the power of the executive to determine conduct is nearly unlimited from a legal standpoint. There have since been many legal arguments made contradicting his stances.
In any case there's legal, and then there's moral. Two quite different things. We ask people to do all sorts of morally questionable things in the conduct of war, telling them that they are both legal and necessary. Then later on we admonish these same people for not having had the fortitude to have told us to go to hell for asking.
(Now) Berkely Law Professor, John Yoo used this in part as a basis for the legality of the Greystone program, arguing that International Law applied to States and State actors, a group to which Al Qaida and OBL, etc. did not belong. He also argued that in war, the power of the executive to determine conduct is nearly unlimited from a legal standpoint. There have since been many legal arguments made contradicting his stances.
In any case there's legal, and then there's moral. Two quite different things. We ask people to do all sorts of morally questionable things in the conduct of war, telling them that they are both legal and necessary. Then later on we admonish these same people for not having had the fortitude to have told us to go to hell for asking.
unofan
Well-known member
I love how the pro life poster on this board ties himself in knots justifying torture and the death penalty.
mookie1995
there's a good buck in that racket.
He’s pro choice!!
ticapnews
Never graduate.
MissThundercat
Are the cis okay?
Re: US Foreign Policy 2.0: Have you read Kipling, Mr. Tillerson?
Let him dig his own hole.
Let him dig his own hole.
mookie1995
there's a good buck in that racket.
Re: US Foreign Policy 2.0: Have you read Kipling, Mr. Tillerson?
US colonel black listed in pak after running a red light yesterday and killing motorcyclist
Army sent a plane to get him. Denied.
US colonel black listed in pak after running a red light yesterday and killing motorcyclist
Army sent a plane to get him. Denied.
Love the way you're preconceptions force you to conclusions that are valid in your mind without looking in mine.
The death penalty is justified if the state finds compelling evidence that a crime shocks the conscience of the community sufficiently enough to kill a criminal. Cases in point
Timothy McVeigh
John Allen Muhammad
Torture? Again, there must be a compelling reason that for reasons of national security (tightly defined not something the "Patriot" Act may condone). If used there has to be an immediate threat of use of a WMD or mass murder.
Both cases need to be extremely rare.
And, for those whose spittle is now all over your screen, being pro life and pro death penalty are compatible stances.
Slap Shot
I got nothing
Link?
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