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US Foreign Policy 2.0: Have you read Kipling, Mr. Tillerson?

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Re: US Foreign Policy 2.0: Have you read Kipling, Mr. Tillerson?

Its not like the US has ever picked a fight in spite of global advice in a catastrophic way or anything.
 
Re: US Foreign Policy 2.0: Have you read Kipling, Mr. Tillerson?

Kepler said:
We're a signator to the UN charter and we negotiated a treaty. So yeah we can do whatever we want if we want to completely destroy our reputation. Why would anybody sign a treaty -- or any document -- with us knowing we'll just abrogate it whenever we want?

But sure, American Exceptionalism! Boo-yah! :rolleyes:
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plus the us pays all the bills :p
 
Re: US Foreign Policy 2.0: Have you read Kipling, Mr. Tillerson?

Kepler said:
We're a signator to the UN charter and we negotiated a treaty. So yeah we can do whatever we want if we want to completely destroy our reputation. Why would anybody sign a treaty -- or any document -- with us knowing we'll just abrogate it whenever we want?

But sure, American Exceptionalism! Boo-yah! :rolleyes:
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don't bother. Joe is a lost cause.

I don't know why you're constantly giving him the benefit of the doubt.
 
Re: US Foreign Policy 2.0: Have you read Kipling, Mr. Tillerson?

mookie1995 said:
plus the us pays all the bills :p
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IIRC we're way behind on our bills. But it's long since past the time when the UN should pull up and move to a neutral country. Geneva is gorgeous.
 
Re: US Foreign Policy 2.0: Have you read Kipling, Mr. Tillerson?

Kepler said:
IIRC we're way behind on our bills. But it's long since past the time when the UN should pull up and move to a neutral country. Geneva is gorgeous.
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About time to kick us from the security council as well.
 
Re: US Foreign Policy 2.0: Have you read Kipling, Mr. Tillerson?

mookie1995 said:
Can’t wait to visit. Plan is to hit that between Lyon and Milan over Christmas vacation.
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I've still never been to Switzerland. I would kill to emigrate there.

They'd even be OK with admitting me:

<img src="http://www.hurryupharry.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/svp_01a-300x234.jpg" />
 
mookie1995 said:
just following orders :D

(any idea what the new name of the airport may be now?? :p)
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😀😀

Good point on Dulles airport. Honestly since the Dulles brothers had their banking buddies provide millions of dollars to IG Farben and the nazi’s they committed treason. Just to **** off the CIA and **** on the Dulles brothers rename the airport with any of the following: Arbenz field, Mossadegh airport, RFK airport, JFK international, Sandinista field (if gop goes nuts tell em it’s about The Clash!), Guevera airport. 😈😈😈
 
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solovsfett said:
😀😀

Good point on Dulles airport. Honestly since the Dulles brothers had their banking buddies provide millions of dollars to IG Farben and the nazi’s they committed treason. Just to **** of the CIA and **** on the Dulles brothers rename the airport with any of the following: Arbenz field, Mossadegh airport, RFK airport, JFK international, Sandinista field (if gop goes nuts tell em it’s about The Clash!), Guevera airport. 😈😈😈
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Would Sandinista Field have a constant loop of “Washington Bullets” and “Police On My Back” playing in the background?
 
Re: US Foreign Policy 2.0: Have you read Kipling, Mr. Tillerson?

5mn_Major said:
Well positioned. In your example, you could see a rationale side to such an act.

However, I would say that the case of our policy of torture varies from that scenario in two ways 1) that the benefits of torture for policy are much more intangible or unknown (we can't know the true linkage to threats or our ability to execute on that information) 2) there are many dangers of both us overdoing torture and/or having the 'bad men' not just be those being tortured but those doing the torture.
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I agree. I wasn't trying to defend waterboarding, etc. as an acceptable policy.
 
Re: US Foreign Policy 2.0: Have you read Kipling, Mr. Tillerson?

Kepler said:
You're missing the whole point. Obviously Mommy's going to do that if she thinks it will save her child. That's what Mommy does.

The problem is, torture doesn't work. The victim just makes up whatever they think the torturer wants to hear to make the pain stop. Anyone will say anything. That's how you get people confessing to making deals with the devil to poison the wheat crop. Everybody who has ever studied torture understands this.

Despite the universal knowledge among people who study torture that it doesn't work, some people in positions of authority still have their fantasies drawn to it. Those people want to torture. They're not interested in information -- they're either sadists who love inflicting pain or they're cynics who know that projecting sadism plays well with the apes among us.
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I was simply suggesting your labeling of Haspel as a definitive monster is unsupported. There are obviously reasons other than being a sadist that Haspel may have for whatever actions she may have taken. I merely suggested a set of facts that would compel nearly everyone to take similar actions. She wasn't a Greystone interrogator herself, and as a middle management type person in the field directly confronting terrorists immediately post 9/11, I suspect the picture was a bit different than it is from my living room 17 years later.

Of course it is possible Haspel is indeed a monster. I just don't see the case for it as overly compelling. It's also possible Obama got off on watching footage of Predator drones blasting away while alone late at night in the situation room. But I don't come to that conclusion either.
 
joecct said:
Allen "OSS" Dulles? Brother of John Foster(Dull, Duller) Dulles? Uncle of Avery Cardinal Dulles? That Dulles?
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That’s the one! I believe there were three Secretaries of State from that family including John Foster.

Devil’s Chessboard is an amazing read on Allen Dulles. Operation sunrise, operation Ajax and so much more.
 
solovsfett said:
That’s the one! I believe there were three Secretaries of State from that family including John Foster.

Devil’s Chessboard is an amazing read on Allen Dulles. Operation sunrise, operation Ajax and so much more.
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"The United States doesn't have friends. It has interests."
- Charles deGaulle -- falsely attributed to J.F. Dulles.
 
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