University of North Dakota - Offseason Thread 2010

[Siouxfaninseattle]

Re: University of North Dakota - Offseason Thread 2010

I swear that the Standing Rock tribe also voted, and the council ignored the vote, delaying this decision for a bit, etc etc in the courts.

No, I'm not the expert or anything, I was following what a few key people posted with links.

Here's a quote from one of the articles from the GF Herald:

The board “has always been committed to hearing from Standing Rock,” Shaft said. “We sent the chancellor to talk with tribal leaders. We formed a committee, asked for meetings and heard several presentations by Ron His Horse Is Thunder,” former tribal chairman.

“He emphatically said no (to a referendum) and said it was not constitutionally possible,” Shaft said. “Then, we waited for tribal elections … and sure enough, there was new leadership, but they said this issue was not a high priority.”

 

[The Rube]

Re: University of North Dakota - Offseason Thread 2010

Here's a quote from one of the articles from the GF Herald:

The board “has always been committed to hearing from Standing Rock,” Shaft said. “We sent the chancellor to talk with tribal leaders. We formed a committee, asked for meetings and heard several presentations by Ron His Horse Is Thunder,” former tribal chairman.

“He emphatically said no (to a referendum) and said it was not constitutionally possible,” Shaft said. “Then, we waited for tribal elections … and sure enough, there was new leadership, but they said this issue was not a high priority.”

Question: "they" meaning the council? Or "they" meaning the tribe themselves? I ask this, because I am under the impression, much like our politicians, they are supposed to represent the voters, but don't always do so.

I am NOT trying to stir things up, this is an honest question. "They" is kinda vague for those not living there or are part of the tribe.

 

[MinnesotaNorthStar]

Re: University of North Dakota - Offseason Thread 2010

Question: "they" meaning the council? Or "they" meaning the tribe themselves? I ask this, because I am under the impression, much like our politicians, they are supposed to represent the voters, but don't always do so.

I am NOT trying to stir things up, this is an honest question. "They" is kinda vague for those not living there or are part of the tribe.

I believe "They" is the Tribal Council.

 

[Siouxfaninseattle]

Re: University of North Dakota - Offseason Thread 2010

Question: "they" meaning the council? Or "they" meaning the tribe themselves? I ask this, because I am under the impression, much like our politicians, they are supposed to represent the voters, but don't always do so.

I am NOT trying to stir things up, this is an honest question. "They" is kinda vague for those not living there or are part of the tribe.

A legitimate question. I take it to mean "they" refers to the council. Most people think that the tribal members would support the nickname, much like they did at Spirit Lake, but they have not been given the opportunity to vote.

 

[The Rube]

Re: University of North Dakota - Offseason Thread 2010

A legitimate question. I take it to mean "they" refers to the council. Most people think that the tribal members would support the nickname, much like they did at Spirit Lake, but they have not been given the opportunity to vote.

If that's the case, there's the rub. You would think that they could hold a special election, find some clause that would not change the overall bylaws. And if not, then change the bylaws and make an exception written in.

Something tells me (and is supported by a few people who know NOTHING of the situation, but know how these things work) that there's some back-door stuff going on. It's not like the Summit League play would include UND this season, is there????

Edit: by that, I mean, the schedules have been made, so what's the harm in leaving this until the mandated date, which is late summer, I believe, of this year?

 

[Siouxfaninseattle]

Re: University of North Dakota - Offseason Thread 2010

If that's the case, there's the rub. You would think that they could hold a special election, find some clause that would not change the overall bylaws. And if not, then change the bylaws and make an exception written in.

Something tells me (and is supported by a few people who know NOTHING of the situation, but know how these things work) that there's some back-door stuff going on. It's not like the Summit League play would include UND this season, is there????

Edit: by that, I mean, the schedules have been made, so what's the harm in leaving this until the mandated date, which is late summer, I believe, of this year?

The article said that according to the Standing rock tribe, it would require a change to their constitution to even hold a referendum. They obviously weren't about to do that. There is a need for getting an application in to join the league soon - there are other schools (I have no idea who) that want to join. It would jeopardize UND's chances of getting admitted by waiting, and of course, money comes in to play.

 

[The Rube]

Re: University of North Dakota - Offseason Thread 2010

The article said that according to the Standing rock tribe, it would require a change to their constitution to even hold a referendum. They obviously weren't about to do that. There is a need for getting an application in to join the league soon - there are other schools (I have no idea who) that want to join. It would jeopardize UND's chances of getting admitted by waiting, and of course, money comes in to play.

Ok, didn't know about the other schools, but knew about the change to the constitution (aka bylaws ).

But, if they were to maximize the court-extended date (and as I mentioned, it was late summer?), still enough time to schedule 2011-12 schedules, which is the earliest it could happen anyway, right?

Edit: Re: bylaws/constitution:

Write, "in the case of a need for immediate vote, the council can hold an emergency binding vote, should the council or tribe see fit" or something like that. It'd be a lot of lawyer speak, but they could do it.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: University of North Dakota - Offseason Thread 2010

I ask forgiveness in advance for taking up space on your thread to talk about Illinois, but please remember, I've been posting for what seems like forever in favor of retaining (and you will always be) The Fighting Sioux.

The situation in Champaign is not directly analogous to yours, for one thing, UND doesn't have a human symbol. But I'd just thought you should know what may be in your future. Some students at UI have formed Students For Chief Illiniwek and are doing what they can to keep the tradition alive in what I believe is the forlorn hope they can bring him back. The last two autumns they have held an event called The Next Dance at which Chief performs his traditional routine. Somehow the group has come up with a realistic replica of Chief's regalia, since the original has been returned to the Oglala Lakota. And they have to rent the Assembly Hall for the event $4,500.

What's interesting is that the upper management of the University has conspired to make it as difficult as possible for the kids to put on this event. A FOIA suit resulted in the release of some very embarrassing documents. The Chancellor has had to resign, although not because of his trampling on the First Amendment rights of his students, but for other corruption. As I say, they've had this event, despite opposition from the University in the fall of '08 and '09, it remains to be seen if they can pull it off again this year.

Given the emotional commitment of Sioux fans, I can see some sort of annual event down the road meant to remind the ignorant or the forgetful about your great tradition. I know the "Next Dance" from '08 brought out 10,000 fans, so that's a bittersweet goal for you guys to shoot at.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GfeKpgBPoA

 

[PCM]

Re: University of North Dakota - Offseason Thread 2010

I've never quite understood the Standing Rock Tribal Council's position that a referendum on the Fighting Sioux nickname issue couldn't be held because it wasn't in the tribe's constitution. If that's the case, how do they explain the special election held in 2008 in which Standing Rock voters rejected changing the tribe's name from ("hostile and abusive") Sioux to the more traditional Oyate? And if it's simply unconstitutional for such votes to take place, why did the tribal council feel the need to pass a moratorium on referendums at the time when those on the reservation who supported UND's use of the Fighting Sioux nickname were organizing one?

Tribe rejects changing name in vote
LAUREN DONOVAN Bismarck Tribune | Posted: Monday, June 23, 2008

The Standing Rock Sioux Tribe will continue to be known as Sioux, following a special election on the reservation.

Voters rejected a proposal to change the tribe's name from Sioux to "Oyate," a word that means "people or nation."

The name change was adopted in 2002 by the Sisseton-Wahpeton Sioux tribes in South Dakota.

The name change to Oyate was turned down by a vote of 337 against, to 225 in favor.

...

The Sioux name continues to be in the news because of some question whether the University of North Dakota should continue to use the "Fighting Sioux" nickname for its athletic teams.

The issue is hotly debated on the reservation and around the state and the university is working to come to agreement with the tribe on whether UND can stick with the name, or change to one that doesn't reflect an ethnic group.

In May, the Standing Rock Sioux tribal council approved a moratorium on putting the Sioux UND logo up for a reservation-wide referendum.

 

[ecbrevik]

Re: University of North Dakota - Offseason Thread 2010

I've never quite understood the Standing Rock Tribal Council's position that a referendum on the Fighting Sioux nickname issue couldn't be held because it wasn't in the tribe's constitution.

I think it was very much a case of "I'm in charge so I make the rules" on the part of Ron HHIT.

 

[A Shot and a Goal]

Re: University of North Dakota - Offseason Thread 2010

The article said that according to the Standing rock tribe, it would require a change to their constitution to even hold a referendum. They obviously weren't about to do that. There is a need for getting an application in to join the league soon - there are other schools (I have no idea who) that want to join. It would jeopardize UND's chances of getting admitted by waiting, and of course, money comes in to play.

Hey Seattle, You're always threatening to show up for a Denver-NoDak series. Here's what you do. Stop by Vegas on your way here and pick up Omaha. Then the two of you make a quick side trip to North Dakota and persuade your pal RonHisHorseGotTwoMinutesForSlashing to join you for the trip to Denver. The whole mess of us can go to Chez Wiste for a pre-game meal. I'll arrange to have the owner knock the crap outta Ronnie. UND will get to keep its nickname/logo and Engelstad Palace. We then conclude the festivities by going to Magness to watch the Pioneers scalp the Sioux and take four points on the weekend. Yeah, you're right: I am a genius.

Problem solved, case closed. [And congrats to you and Mrs. Seattle on your 25th].

 

[cross cheque]

Re: University of North Dakota - Offseason Thread 2010

That's the first intelligent thing anyone has said all day...except brenthoven, sfis,.....ok maybe I'm the only one who hasn't said anything intelligent.

 

[brianvf]

Re: University of North Dakota - Offseason Thread 2010

We then conclude the festivities by going to Magness to watch the Pioneers scalp the Sioux and take four points on the weekend.

Are we talking about next season?
If so, we both know that won't happen. DU might not be able to even field a complete team with all their talented early departures.

 

[ecbrevik]

Re: University of North Dakota - Offseason Thread 2010

We then conclude the festivities by going to Magness to watch the Pioneers scalp the Sioux.

They're going to scalp Ron His Horse is Thunder???? I always knew DU was a bunch of thugs and goons!

 

[A Shot and a Goal]

Re: University of North Dakota - Offseason Thread 2010

They're going to scalp Ron His Horse is Thunder???? I always knew DU was a bunch of thugs and goons!

Hey ECB, Thuggery and gooning it up. Yeah, we always go with our strong suits here in Denver. Plus, them Siouxs is tough and may swing their purses at the Pioneers.

 

[ecbrevik]

Re: University of North Dakota - Offseason Thread 2010

This year's FIGHTINGSIOUX.COM Spring Scholarship Auction will include autographed Olympic jerseys from Zach Parise and Jonathan Toews.

 

[MinnesotaNorthStar]

Re: University of North Dakota - Offseason Thread 2010

They're going to scalp Ron His Horse is Thunder???? I always knew DU was a bunch of thugs and goons!

Since RHHIT is technically Sioux...does that mean we'll get a 5:00 PP?

Unless it's Adam...then it'll just be 2:00 for boarding...

 

[walrus]

Re: University of North Dakota - Offseason Thread 2010

DO you guys know when the Sioux are coming to Maine next season? I hear Oct 22 and 23?

 

[brianvf]

Re: University of North Dakota - Offseason Thread 2010

DO you guys know when the Sioux are coming to Maine next season? I hear Oct 22 and 23?

That would be correct.

Oct. 3 -- MANITOBA (exh)
Oct. 8 -- at Anchorage tourn.
Oct. 9 -- at Anchorage tourn.
Oct. 15 -- at Bemidji St.
Oct. 16 -- at Bemidji St.
Oct. 22 -- at Maine
Oct. 23 -- at Maine
Oct. 29 -- DENVER
Oct. 30 -- DENVER

Nov. 5 -- DULUTH
Nov. 6 -- DULUTH
Nov. 12 -- at Wisconsin
Nov. 13 -- at Wisconsin
Nov. 19 -- at Omaha
Nov. 20 -- at Omaha
Nov. 26 -- NOTRE DAME
Nov. 27 -- NOTRE DAME

Dec. 3 -- ST. CLOUD
Dec. 4 -- ST. CLOUD
Dec. 10 -- at Mankato
Dec. 11 -- at Mankato
Dec. 18 -- US U18 (exh)
Dec. 30 -- at Duluth (HoF)

Jan. 7 -- ROBERT MORRIS
Jan. 8 -- ROBERT MORRIS
Jan. 14 -- MINNESOTA
Jan. 15 -- MINNESOTA
Jan. 21 -- OMAHA
Jan. 22 -- OMAHA
Jan. 28 -- Colo. College
Jan. 29 -- Colo. College

Feb. 11 -- ANCHORAGE
Feb. 12 -- ANCHORAGE
Feb. 18 -- at St. Cloud
Feb. 19 -- at St. Cloud
Feb. 26 -- BEMIDJI ST.
Feb. 27 -- BEMIDJI ST.

Mar. 4 -- at Mich. Tech
Mar. 5 -- at Mich. Tech

 

[The Rube]

Re: University of North Dakota - Offseason Thread 2010

Got another email due to my feedback to UND, from a Duaine Espegard, who also provided some articles from the Herald on the issue, and how the Standing Rock council pretty much ignored all efforts/etc to talk with the Board, hold a vote, etc, including ignoring a 1000+ sig petition from the tribe.

Once I figure out how to upload the articles, I will, or I can just forward the email to any interested parties. You can email me through here with your email address (I don't think you can reply with attachments through here).