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Union Hockey 2012-2013 - Unfinished Business
- Thread starter Dutchfan
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Re: Union Hockey 2012-2013 - Unfinished Business
Here's even more on the game -- including an update on Josh Jooris.
Go to: http://unionhockeynews.blogspot.com/2013/01/union-uses-late-surge-to-beat-harvard-4.html
Here's even more on the game -- including an update on Josh Jooris.
Go to: http://unionhockeynews.blogspot.com/2013/01/union-uses-late-surge-to-beat-harvard-4.html
Wicked Slappaahs
I miss Tie Domi
Re: Union Hockey 2012-2013 - Unfinished Business
That's the oddest description of a concussion I've ever heard...even with my Coach-Speak translator booted up.
Re: Union Hockey 2012-2013 - Unfinished Business
In the short time I've been covering them, I've learned Bennett provides some good fodder at his post game press conferences, i.e, comparing Cornell to the Russian Red Army from the 70s, making a Wizard of Oz reference in connection with Ciampini's embellishment call on Saturday, describing Jooris' injury. He doesn't lack a sense of humor.
In the short time I've been covering them, I've learned Bennett provides some good fodder at his post game press conferences, i.e, comparing Cornell to the Russian Red Army from the 70s, making a Wizard of Oz reference in connection with Ciampini's embellishment call on Saturday, describing Jooris' injury. He doesn't lack a sense of humor.
Re: Union Hockey 2012-2013 - Unfinished Business
Coaches rarely want to disclose much if anything specific about injuries so coach speak it is.
As far as last night's game is concerned there were plenty of positives tempered by the fact that we faced a decimated Harvard squad. Matt Dubray on air before the game said that they actually suited up a player from the club team. I heard at the rink that there were in fact two. It was good to see Troy continue to be sharp and also I am encouraged that the freshmen may be getting the hang of it as their impact seems to be growing. The third too many men call in as many games has me scratching my head. This was a problem a few years ago which seems to have resurfaced for some odd reason. Let's hope that's the end of it for a good long while.
Jeremy Welsh got about 5 minutes on ice last night which probably amounted to about $2,000 a minute. In seriousness, congratulations to him and all the best. It was a thrill to see him out there if however briefly. He will keep working hard and give himself every chance to continue in his professional development.
Coaches rarely want to disclose much if anything specific about injuries so coach speak it is.
As far as last night's game is concerned there were plenty of positives tempered by the fact that we faced a decimated Harvard squad. Matt Dubray on air before the game said that they actually suited up a player from the club team. I heard at the rink that there were in fact two. It was good to see Troy continue to be sharp and also I am encouraged that the freshmen may be getting the hang of it as their impact seems to be growing. The third too many men call in as many games has me scratching my head. This was a problem a few years ago which seems to have resurfaced for some odd reason. Let's hope that's the end of it for a good long while.
Jeremy Welsh got about 5 minutes on ice last night which probably amounted to about $2,000 a minute.
In seriousness, congratulations to him and all the best. It was a thrill to see him out there if however briefly. He will keep working hard and give himself every chance to continue in his professional development.Re: Union Hockey 2012-2013 - Unfinished Business
Last night was a game they really had to win. Considering Harvard is something like 1-9-1 in its last 11 games, it's hard to get too excited about the win. But it was still nice to see four goals and a strong third period. Saturday's game will be more of a test. RPI has either won or tied five of their past six league games, including a tie at Quinnipiac and a win over Cornell. I'm expecting Saturday's game to be a real battle. I'd be surprised if Union wins by four goals like they did the last time. I see a closer game, one that comes down to the third period. There was talk last night of 8000+ people showing up on Saturday, but we'll see.
Last night was a game they really had to win. Considering Harvard is something like 1-9-1 in its last 11 games, it's hard to get too excited about the win. But it was still nice to see four goals and a strong third period. Saturday's game will be more of a test. RPI has either won or tied five of their past six league games, including a tie at Quinnipiac and a win over Cornell. I'm expecting Saturday's game to be a real battle. I'd be surprised if Union wins by four goals like they did the last time. I see a closer game, one that comes down to the third period. There was talk last night of 8000+ people showing up on Saturday, but we'll see.
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Re: Union Hockey 2012-2013 - Unfinished Business
In the long run I'm thinking the only way we get into the NCAA is to win the Whitelaw, but I also noticed that our PWR is back up to 19 after the Harvard win, not sure why. I'm also thinking that RPI is moving up and is close to being a TUC so with two wins against them already, that would help us if they were to attain TUC status. Also if they beat us they will beat a TUC so that would elevate their status as well. So a win or a loss to them are both good for our PWR.
I know that's crazy so maybe someone who knows how this all works will actually add some insight.
In the long run I'm thinking the only way we get into the NCAA is to win the Whitelaw, but I also noticed that our PWR is back up to 19 after the Harvard win, not sure why. I'm also thinking that RPI is moving up and is close to being a TUC so with two wins against them already, that would help us if they were to attain TUC status. Also if they beat us they will beat a TUC so that would elevate their status as well. So a win or a loss to them are both good for our PWR.
I know that's crazy so maybe someone who knows how this all works will actually add some insight.Re: Union Hockey 2012-2013 - Unfinished Business
Ahead of Saturday's big game in Albany, I chatted with RPI head coach Seth Appert. He talks about his team's improvement, Union's success vs RPI, some of his players who could be factors on Saturday night, and more.
To see what he had to say, go here: http://t.co/vzP2m6BY
Ahead of Saturday's big game in Albany, I chatted with RPI head coach Seth Appert. He talks about his team's improvement, Union's success vs RPI, some of his players who could be factors on Saturday night, and more.
To see what he had to say, go here: http://t.co/vzP2m6BY
FlagDUDE08
Banned
Re: Union Hockey 2012-2013 - Unfinished Business
If you do lose on Saturday, your H2H comes down to 2-1. Our only common opponents are those in the league, and I don't know how many of your NC opponents (if any) are TUCs, perhaps the CCHA ones, maybe Merrimack? Although we have played each other, RatingsPI remains the tiebreak, so take that into consideration should you lose and RPI becomes a TUC. Obviously the same is true if we were to tie (and go to the skills competition, as they're reporting to have for the game on FOX Sports 980), with exception being that the H2H becomes 2-0. If you win, you're up 3-0 on the H2H, and from what I recall the H2H is still counted as individual points instead of just a straight comparison, so unless you blow it on everything else, you'd pretty much have the comparison in the bag if RPI finds another way to become a TUC.
In the long run I'm thinking the only way we get into the NCAA is to win the Whitelaw, but I also noticed that our PWR is back up to 19 after the Harvard win, not sure why. I'm also thinking that RPI is moving up and is close to being a TUC so with two wins against them already, that would help us if they were to attain TUC status. Also if they beat us they will beat a TUC so that would elevate their status as well. So a win or a loss to them are both good for our PWR.
If you do lose on Saturday, your H2H comes down to 2-1. Our only common opponents are those in the league, and I don't know how many of your NC opponents (if any) are TUCs, perhaps the CCHA ones, maybe Merrimack? Although we have played each other, RatingsPI remains the tiebreak, so take that into consideration should you lose and RPI becomes a TUC. Obviously the same is true if we were to tie (and go to the skills competition, as they're reporting to have for the game on FOX Sports 980), with exception being that the H2H becomes 2-0. If you win, you're up 3-0 on the H2H, and from what I recall the H2H is still counted as individual points instead of just a straight comparison, so unless you blow it on everything else, you'd pretty much have the comparison in the bag if RPI finds another way to become a TUC.
Re: Union Hockey 2012-2013 - Unfinished Business
That's not an unreasonable set of data, would leave your RPI within a hundredth or two of where it is currently, and provides a basis for a glimpse into the future. Union's TUC record would now be 6-9-1 (0.4063).
Going by conference:
WCHA: The comparison against Minnesota is a guaranteed loss. North Dakota hinges solely on RPI (no common opponents), which you're not going to win. The Denver comparison can be won, but is unlikely. St. Cloud State is winnable, since the Common Opponent is already in the bag and they currently have a 0.500 TUC Record. Minnesota State? Less so. Requires TUC and RPI to flip. UNO hinges on RPI (unless you meet Quinnipiac in the playoffs and don't lose, and even then you'd still have to win one of RPI and TUC). Wisconsin should remain a win.
HEA: The upper echelon HEA teams (BC and UNH) are pretty much guaranteed losses. UML and BU are winnable, but you need to flip the RPI component AND probably TUC, so, it's possible, but not given. You should be able to stay in front of Providence and UMass (if they even stay as TUCs).
The other ECAC teams (especially Yale, which believe it or not, is the most winnable of the three that you're currently losing) will depend on the relative standings. Quinnipiac is a loss, while Dartmouth has an outside chance of being flipped. Cornell and Colgate should remain wins.
CCHA: Just looking at Common Opponents, Notre Dame and Western Michigan are guaranteed losses (ignoring playoffs) while Miami would have to fall hard to switch that, Alaska is probably a loss, NMU is winnable, and FSU and LSSU are almost guaranteed wins. There's no way you're going to flip both RPI and TUC Records on Notre Dame, Western, or Miami, so those are likely PWC losses, too. You're ahead of the other four in RPI, so mark up two PWC wins (NMU and FSU) and two that hinge on their final TUC Record (UA_, LSSU).
AHA: It's all about the RPI.
So, IFF everything played out as above, you'll flip comparisons against SCSU, UNO, Yale, and LSSU and just for kicks, Niagara, too. Add in the comparison wins against Merrimack and Rensselaer, subtract the comparisons against Holy Cross and UMass as they fall off the TUC Cliff, and you're up to 15 comparison wins, leaving you right around 14th in the rankings, aka right on the bubble.
When RPI first becomes a TUC (whether that's Friday night, or after an Engineers win on Saturday, or an RPI sweep against Harvard and Dartmouth next weekend, or however it happens) (or they hit 10 games against TUCs in another manner), expect a bump down at least a few spots as the Alaska, Providence, and UMass comparisons will all flip against you. However, improved play over the rest of the regular season could lead to sneaking back some of those comparisons and inching themselves into the tournament.
The basic thing hurting Union right now is they're winning the games they're supposed to (Penn State, AIC, UConn), but they're losing against TUCs. This is almost the exact opposite of the problem plaguing Yale. One of these teams is 5th in Pairwise and one is 19th. Hard not to see the flaws in this system.
Let's say for the sake of argument that Union beats RPI on Saturday, goes 3-1-0 in their four remaining games against Yale, Dartmouth, Colgate, and Cornell (their four remaining league games against TUCs), RPI goes on a run and becomes a TUC, Merrimack becomes a TUC, Union gets a bye and loses in the quarterfinals round to a TUC in 3 games.In the long run I'm thinking the only way we get into the NCAA is to win the Whitelaw, but I also noticed that our PWR is back up to 19 after the Harvard win, not sure why. I'm also thinking that RPI is moving up and is close to being a TUC so with two wins against them already, that would help us if they were to attain TUC status. Also if they beat us they will beat a TUC so that would elevate their status as well. So a win or a loss to them are both good for our PWR.
That's not an unreasonable set of data, would leave your RPI within a hundredth or two of where it is currently, and provides a basis for a glimpse into the future. Union's TUC record would now be 6-9-1 (0.4063).
Going by conference:
WCHA: The comparison against Minnesota is a guaranteed loss. North Dakota hinges solely on RPI (no common opponents), which you're not going to win. The Denver comparison can be won, but is unlikely. St. Cloud State is winnable, since the Common Opponent is already in the bag and they currently have a 0.500 TUC Record. Minnesota State? Less so. Requires TUC and RPI to flip. UNO hinges on RPI (unless you meet Quinnipiac in the playoffs and don't lose, and even then you'd still have to win one of RPI and TUC). Wisconsin should remain a win.
HEA: The upper echelon HEA teams (BC and UNH) are pretty much guaranteed losses. UML and BU are winnable, but you need to flip the RPI component AND probably TUC, so, it's possible, but not given. You should be able to stay in front of Providence and UMass (if they even stay as TUCs).
The other ECAC teams (especially Yale, which believe it or not, is the most winnable of the three that you're currently losing) will depend on the relative standings. Quinnipiac is a loss, while Dartmouth has an outside chance of being flipped. Cornell and Colgate should remain wins.
CCHA: Just looking at Common Opponents, Notre Dame and Western Michigan are guaranteed losses (ignoring playoffs) while Miami would have to fall hard to switch that, Alaska is probably a loss, NMU is winnable, and FSU and LSSU are almost guaranteed wins. There's no way you're going to flip both RPI and TUC Records on Notre Dame, Western, or Miami, so those are likely PWC losses, too. You're ahead of the other four in RPI, so mark up two PWC wins (NMU and FSU) and two that hinge on their final TUC Record (UA_, LSSU).
AHA: It's all about the RPI.
So, IFF everything played out as above, you'll flip comparisons against SCSU, UNO, Yale, and LSSU and just for kicks, Niagara, too. Add in the comparison wins against Merrimack and Rensselaer, subtract the comparisons against Holy Cross and UMass as they fall off the TUC Cliff, and you're up to 15 comparison wins, leaving you right around 14th in the rankings, aka right on the bubble.
When RPI first becomes a TUC (whether that's Friday night, or after an Engineers win on Saturday, or an RPI sweep against Harvard and Dartmouth next weekend, or however it happens) (or they hit 10 games against TUCs in another manner), expect a bump down at least a few spots as the Alaska, Providence, and UMass comparisons will all flip against you. However, improved play over the rest of the regular season could lead to sneaking back some of those comparisons and inching themselves into the tournament.
The basic thing hurting Union right now is they're winning the games they're supposed to (Penn State, AIC, UConn), but they're losing against TUCs. This is almost the exact opposite of the problem plaguing Yale. One of these teams is 5th in Pairwise and one is 19th. Hard not to see the flaws in this system.
Ralph Baer
Let's Go 'Tute!
Re: Union Hockey 2012-2013 - Unfinished Business
Do you really think that is a flaw in the system? With similar records, I would go with the team that has both upset losses and upset wins over the one that wins exactly the games predicted. The former would be the more exciting team and more likely to go on a run in the tournament with further upets. JMO.
Re: Union Hockey 2012-2013 - Unfinished Business
Let's go with the assumption that Pairwise is trying to pick the "best" teams for the tournament and rank them in some order. The current ranking system is rewarding teams that win against TUCs, even if they lose against non-TUCs. That doesn't seem like the mark of a "best" team to me. I'm not going to argue that it makes games more or less fun when the result of the game isn't a foregone conclusion, it's just that in my opinion, a primary trait of a team that deserves the "best" moniker is consistency.
Re: Union Hockey 2012-2013 - Unfinished Business
Before today's practice, Rick Bennett talked about the game with RPI and offered updates on Jooris and Stuart.
Listen to Bennett here: http://t.co/MTFBOEha
Before today's practice, Rick Bennett talked about the game with RPI and offered updates on Jooris and Stuart.
Listen to Bennett here: http://t.co/MTFBOEha
Ralph Baer
Let's Go 'Tute!
Re: Union Hockey 2012-2013 - Unfinished Business
I would include the team more likely to win the tourney. For a team that is not the best, that would be the more inconsistent team. In a tourney consisting of good or better teams (with the exception of some possible league tourney winners), the team that always goes by form has no chance of winning, but the team that has upset wins and losses can win it all.
I guess we differ.
I would include the team more likely to win the tourney. For a team that is not the best, that would be the more inconsistent team. In a tourney consisting of good or better teams (with the exception of some possible league tourney winners), the team that always goes by form has no chance of winning, but the team that has upset wins and losses can win it all.FlagDUDE08
Banned
Re: Union Hockey 2012-2013 - Unfinished Business
So it's a bad thing that a few years ago, UVM made the Frozen Four despite having almost missed the Hockey East playoffs?
So it's a bad thing that a few years ago, UVM made the Frozen Four despite having almost missed the Hockey East playoffs?
Re: Union Hockey 2012-2013 - Unfinished Business
Don't get me wrong, I'm glad that the NCAA Tournament field is selected through a purely mathematical and transparent process. But, I can still gripe about the process.
To Union fans, sorry for derailing your oh so active and interesting thread.
It's a great story. Shows how strong HEA was in 2008-9. It also displays the pure folly of this ranking system.
Don't get me wrong, I'm glad that the NCAA Tournament field is selected through a purely mathematical and transparent process. But, I can still gripe about the process.
To Union fans, sorry for derailing your oh so active and interesting thread.
Re: Union Hockey 2012-2013 - Unfinished Business
I think you're in the minority on this one, burgie. Another example is the ECAC tiebreakers, which use record against the top 4 as one of the early tiebreakers. If two teams are tied, but A has done better against the top 4 than B, then A has necessarily done worse against the bottom 7. You can't both reward A for being able to get up for the big games AND punish them for losing to the weak teams, otherwise you'd be right back where you started - the big wins cancel out the bad losses, so you'd think of A and B as equals. If two teams are tied for 5th place but one has gone 0-8 against the top 4, I'd say that they've pretty well demonstrated that they are not in the same class as the top teams.
Wicked Slappaahs
I miss Tie Domi
Re: Union Hockey 2012-2013 - Unfinished Business
4G, 1A night for Pontarelli. He's within 7 of the league scoring leader...
http://www.standard-freeholder.com/2013/01/25/colts-rout-rangers-8-2
4G, 1A night for Pontarelli. He's within 7 of the league scoring leader...
http://www.standard-freeholder.com/2013/01/25/colts-rout-rangers-8-2
Re: Union Hockey 2012-2013 - Unfinished Business
It's the reason that the mookie / Bentley rule needed to be added in. Not all games against TUCs are equal and frankly, they promote a team to be inconsistent in order to place higher in the Pairwise.
But, there's a difference. Every team within the ECAC plays the Top 4 teams twice. It is a balanced schedule. That's not true in Pairwise. Union's 1-0-0 record against Colgate contributes just as much to their TUC Record as BC's 0-1-0 record against Minnesota.
It's the reason that the mookie / Bentley rule needed to be added in. Not all games against TUCs are equal and frankly, they promote a team to be inconsistent in order to place higher in the Pairwise.
Ralph Baer
Let's Go 'Tute!
Re: Union Hockey 2012-2013 - Unfinished Business
Burgie,
Why not start a separate thead about this. It might get comments from others, and the Union fans don't like it when we come here.
Burgie,
Why not start a separate thead about this. It might get comments from others, and the Union fans don't like it when we come here.
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