Union College Dutchwomen 2013-2014

[UCONN FAN]

Re: Union College Dutchwomen 2013-2014

So, all-in-all, I would expect 4 or 5 of the 6 Ivies to be pretty competitive next season despite their inability to offer athletic scholarships. And all of them have been competitive at times in the last 5 years except for Brown and there was a lot of badness going on there before Bourbeau arrived by other's accounts. Union hasn't ever been close to competitive and just doesn't seem to be heading there. Just isn't working for me (or more importantly them) - they should be getting better and they aren't.

I guess competitive would have to be defined. 3 of the Ivies finish in the top 5 yearly in the ECAC anyway. I wouldn't expect too much from any of the others this season. Yale should be better but where do you see them finishing in their divison? Maybe ahead of Princeton? Is that 7th? Princeton has one of if not the best financial programs and how many elite players are passing up a scholarship and going there? Since BC, BU and the likes have become fully funded Brown, Princeton and to a lesser extent Providence have come back to the field or have dropped of the table. At one point Digit had the most wins by any women's college coach but the game changed and she didn't. Heather did the same at UCONN and paid the price.
I can't help but look on the men's side and draw some parallels. Did it take Yale that long to finally find a coach? Union made it's first frozen four 2 season's ago and has been a DI program for 21 years now. Again I go back to the numbers, 6 times as many men play as women (at least according to USA Hockey's numbers). It will take time for the women's side to catch up.
I'm not defending Claudia either. I'm just saying I get what she is up against

 

[CrossCheck]

Re: Union College Dutchwomen 2013-2014

What do you see as Union's advantage over the Ivy programs? I agree that there is some pool of recruits that do not consider an athletic scholarship to be a must. Where do you think Union can make inroads such that a potential D-I recruit would pick the Dutchwomen over one of the Ivies?

obvious answer....the good player/good student who does not have the top grades or test scores needed to get into one of the Ivies [or NESCAC's for that matter...]. It's a pretty big pool.

 

[Hux]

Re: Union College Dutchwomen 2013-2014

obvious answer....the good player/good student who does not have the top grades or test scores needed to get into one of the Ivies [or NESCAC's for that matter...]. It's a pretty big pool.

Except Union is as difficult to get into as any of the Ivies...without the coveted name recognition.

 

[HockeyEast33]

Re: Union College Dutchwomen 2013-2014

Except Union is as difficult to get into as any of the Ivies...without the coveted name recognition.

I'd agree with Crosscheck on the profile of the Union student/athlete. I'd add that the school has specialty majors (engineering, etc.) that aren't offered by most of the NESCAC schools and some of the Ivies that would be attractive to specific kids.

Hux - Union is not an easy school to get into but nowhere near as difficult as the hockey playing Ivies. The 6 Ivies have an average acceptance rate of 9.9% (with Cornell skewing the average up at 18%). Union's acceptance rate is 43%. And Union's test scores are lower than all of the Ivies. They have a much larger pool of kids they can draw from than folks think. It's on par admissions/academically with some of the lower ranked NESCAC schools (Conn College, Trinity, etc.). And it's reputation is very positive in the real world, especially in the majors that it specializes in and in the North East.

 

[Eeyore]

Re: Union College Dutchwomen 2013-2014

The 6 Ivies have an average acceptance rate of 9.9% (with Cornell skewing the average up at 18%). Union's acceptance rate is 43%. And Union's test scores are lower than all of the Ivies.

The test scores are fine, but using acceptance rates to judge how good a school is is one of the worst of the many bad ideas that the U.S, News and World Report college ranking has foisted upon the world.

 

[96IllinoisDad]

Re: Union College Dutchwomen 2013-2014

The test scores are fine, but using acceptance rates to judge how good a school is is one of the worst of the many bad ideas that the U.S, News and World Report college ranking has foisted upon the world.

Personally, my impression is closer to Hux's view. You need to be a good student to go to Union (i.e., to be accepted and to be successful). If you also have decent test scores, Ivies are arguably a better option for a decent player because they have much better endowments and "no loan" policies, better educational and better real world reputation and a better hockey history on the women's side. Like the Ivies, Union is expensive. It does, however, offer some academic or merit aid, but based on what we were told, it is fairly limited. Plus, if you qualified for that limited merit aid (based on academics), you would meet any Ivy's AI index. One benefit to Union recruiting is that test scores are optional (and obviously no AI). So, a good student with bad test scores might consider the value of a Union education.

 

[PTS34]

Re: Union College Dutchwomen 2013-2014

A kid who has a decent but not outstanding AI for ivies (say between 190-210) can easily get into Union without any support. The same kid would be hard pressed to get into ANY ivy without support, so how can you possibly say that it is equally difficult to get into Union??

 

[wwhyte]

Re: Union College Dutchwomen 2013-2014

At one point Digit had the most wins by any women's college coach but the game changed and she didn't.

That's interesting -- could you expand on that? This is all before my time and she seems to be doing okay with the Blades now, so I'd be interested to know the history here. This may be the wrong thread for it of course.

 

[CrossCheck]

Re: Union College Dutchwomen 2013-2014

To suggest that Union's admission standards are on a par with the Ivies or NESCAC's is just plain silly. Having gone through the process several times I can tell you it's just not even close.

I do agree on the Engineering option at Union that is something which would set them apart from the Ivy/nescac group...also the 3/3/3 semester system which is also unique. As for money...they do give merit scholarships and are quite generous from what I have seen. The real issue is that honestly....Union should be playing D3 [as they do in every other sport. Should have gone NESCAC years ago when they had the chance.

 

[rdf8585]

Re: Union College Dutchwomen 2013-2014

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p>Former <a href="https://twitter.com/search?q=%23UnionHockey&src=hash">#UnionHockey</a> players Rhianna Kurio '13 and Emma Rambo '13 have entered the Canadian Women's Hockey League draft (to be held on 8/26).</p>— Union Hockey News (@unionhockeynews) <a href="https://twitter.com/unionhockeynews/statuses/358263036886265856">July 19, 2013</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

http://unionhockeynews.blogspot.com/2013/07/kurio-rambo-declare-for-cwhl-draft.html

 

[Trillium]

Re: Union College Dutchwomen 2013-2014

Except Union is as difficult to get into as any of the Ivies...without the coveted name recognition.

No it isn't. I can assure you the grades and scores to get into Union are actually significantly less as an athlete. While still not one of the easiest schools to get into, its still easier to access than some non-Ivys. Trust me, I know what kind of scores/grades got various players into most schools

 

[rdf8585]

Re: Union College Dutchwomen 2013-2014

Camille Corbin, who would have been a junior this year, has left the team.

http://unionhockeynews.blogspot.com/2013/07/corbin-not-returning-to-dutchwomen.html

 

[PuckRush]

Re: Union College Dutchwomen 2013-2014

You should look at the post by "Still A Game" on 7/15. "She just needed to be wanted" is a telling comment for me... because I experienced the same thing. I think these are the problems at Union:

1. Poor communications to recruits from coaching staff (see "She just needed to be wanted").
2. No athletic scholarships yet competing with athletic scholarship schools.
3. Not an Ivy yet competing with Ivy schools.

If I were on the coaching staff, here is how I would approach recruiting. I would sell to kids and parents that Union has the academic chops of a NESCAC school but plays D1. There are plenty of kids that aspire to Ivy that drop off the consideration list because of test scores or grades. These kids are expressing an interest in getting a top education and aren't worried that there is no athletic scholarship. The sell: "You can still get a top-flight education AND play D1" or "You certainly can go to a NESCAC and get a great education, but you can get a similar academic experience here, PLUS.. don't you want to compete against the best?" Short-term I'd end up with some quality players that can help me create a respectable program. Longer term I use that success to go after bigger fish so I can become a contender. It's certainly an easier road if Union could give scholarships or transfer to NESCAC, but for now, these are the cards they are dealt with and they need to leverage the advantages they have got.

I also think the current coaching staff needs an education on how to appear interested in recruiting players. Julie Chu definitely gives this coaching staff serious credibility with the girls, but unless someone emphatically starts telling targeted recruits "I want you", then this train is going nowhere.

 

[ZedLeppelin]

Re: Union College Dutchwomen 2013-2014

Julie Chu definitely gives this coaching staff serious credibility with the girls...

I thought Julie Chu left the Union coaching staff to concentrate on training for the Olympics next year?

 

[OneTimer]

Re: Union College Dutchwomen 2013-2014

She has.

 

[CrossCheck]

Re: Union College Dutchwomen 2013-2014

Puckrush....you 100% nailed it. That is the formula for success at Union....[i think u should be hired]. Seriously.

 

[96IllinoisDad]

Re: Union College Dutchwomen 2013-2014

I think these are the problems at Union:

1. Poor communications to recruits from coaching staff (see "She just needed to be wanted").
2. No athletic scholarships yet competing with athletic scholarship schools.
3. Not an Ivy yet competing with Ivy schools.

... these are the cards they are dealt with and they need to leverage the advantages they have got.

Well, in addition to academics and DI, you would be remiss if you didn't mention one big advantage that Union has in recruiting - no athletic scholarships!

As a staff, you don't need to worry about allocating precious athletic money to recruits according to your "priority list". You don't have to wait for an answer from your "higher ranked" kid before you have money freed up to move down to the next kid on the list. If I were Union, I would be over-offering kids (like Ivies). Now, I'm not suggesting you have kids mysteriously turned down by admissions to trim your ranks (like some other schools), but worse case you have an extra body or two paying $50,000 each a year to your institution. Sure I'd rather have to worry about athletic money allocations when making offers, but if I didn't have any I would use it to my advantage. There would be some kids who felt wanted!

 

[hab]

Re: Union College Dutchwomen 2013-2014

So many ideas about how to improve the Union program, and so little attention to the progress being made! I have watched this program develop for about 10 years now and I really believe that the current coaching/ recruiting efforts are on the right track. Talk to any team in the ECAC and ask them if they consider a game against Union as a slam dunk and they will say "definitely not". That was not the case a few years back.

Look very closely at the record last year. After 21 games they were a respectable 7-11-3. Then, in the last 14 games they had one tie and 13 losses. But, again, look beyond the superficial stats to the details. Even in that disappointing 14 game stretch, playing against teams fighting for playoff berths, they tied one game, lost 5 games by one goal, 4 games by 2 goals and only got dominated in 3 games (losses by 3, 4, and 7 goals). Union has become a competitive team, not to be taken lightly on any given night. Not as much progress as their fans might like, I'm sure, but moving in the right direction...for sure. If it were my decision I would give the current coaching staff a little rope.

By the way, I'm not a Union fan. My daughter looked seriously at Union but played for another ECAC team.

 

[PuckRush]

Re: Union College Dutchwomen 2013-2014

A brilliant observation and fully agree IllinoisDad.

 

[Flarrow]

Re: Union College Dutchwomen 2013-2014

Puckrush writes “If I were on the coaching staff, here is how I would approach recruiting. I would sell to kids and parents that Union has the academic chops of a NESCAC school but plays D1. There are plenty of kids that aspire to Ivy that drop off the consideration list because of test scores or grades. These kids are expressing an interest in getting a top education and aren't worried that there is no athletic scholarship. The sell: "You can still get a top-flight education AND play D1" or "You certainly can go to a NESCAC and get a great education, but you can get a similar academic experience here, PLUS.. don't you want to compete against the best?" Short-term I'd end up with some quality players that can help me create a respectable program. Longer term I use that success to go after bigger fish so I can become a contender. It's certainly an easier road if Union could give scholarships or transfer to NESCAC, but for now, these are the cards they are dealt with and they need to leverage the advantages they have got.”

This was very much the approach that former coach Tim Gerrish took when he was recruiting, but he also could offer the incentive of trying to contribute to the transition of the program from D 3 to D1. Union is a small school in enrollment and physical campus, but large in academic quality, and some players like that ‘small pond’ to focus their lives on sports and school. Gerrish recruited some very good players, but the interface between the two-division-level players on the team was difficult, and it went on through all the transition years. He also lost an assistant coach just before his first season started, and later got into a situation with disruptions from one or two players off the ice.

I will never understand why the AD cut him loose so quickly, yet stands by the current coach despite ongoing evidence of her lack of skill as a D1 head coach. Both her game-coaching and recruiting of players remains sub-par, and as far as her coaching staff goes, it is all too often filled out with young players from her own team. Both Julie Chu and the late George Morrison added needed depth to her bench, but they each supplemented skills that should be evident in a head coach.

Yes, the team has had some competitive games here and there, and yes, on any given day the results reflect who shows up to play – on both teams. But overall, the coach cannot seem to get any Union team of her era to play solid defense in their zone, or to break the puck out as part of a team rush, not just an individual player’s charge to the net for a shot. There is little recovery of missed shots to extend an offensive effort. There’s a shot, then the other teams recovers and it’s back down the ice for three or four good shots on goal. Passing skills are often undeveloped, too. Much of Union’s record relies on some extraordinary games by goalies, and not just during Day’s years.

And don’t get me wrong: there have been some very good players on Union’s teams, young women who could have played/ been recruited elsewhere but chose Union instead; many more are definitely D-1 capable players, but they’re in need of a cohesive team and good coaching to succeed..

This coach also regularly loses players who give up on her, and the team, after two or three seasons, but they often do not give up on themselves. They go on in their academic work, often at Union, and often later go on to play hockey in amateur leagues. They were/are good hockey players who love the sport, but who had to abandon the Asano organization. It seems to be a self-preservation effort to protect themselves from ….? Something that goes on year after year.

I cannot shake the conclusion that Union’s true problems are in the coach and the AD.

PS: and please rdf8585, don't use this forum as a re-post station for your team publicity efforts.