Use of the word "hate" is a bit of a stretch to describe my thoughts on JvR (or Poturalski, or pre-emptively Gildon, whom I've yet to come to any conclusions about, all of a month and a half into his UNH career - talk about agenda driven
). Just because I don't share your lofty opinions on which players you feel are deserving of your worship or adoration (two strong words, but I figured I'd turn it around a bit), doesn't mean I despise them.
And while it would be silly to argue that JvR hasn't been UNH's most successful player scoring-wise at the NHL level - he is - it would be equally silly to argue that JvR's NHL career to date hasn't been on the disappointing side. Just for kicks and giggles ... here's a link to the 2nd overall NHL draft picks for the last 35 or so seasons (up through 2013 anyways). Go ahead, focus in on the forwards drafted in the same draft slot as JvR over the last 25 or so seasons (including stud defensemen like Pronger, Doughty and Hedman), and tell me if you can come up with more than one (or maybe two?) forwards whose careers have been OR project to be less impressive than what we've seen out of JvR at the NHL level to date.
http://www.mynhldraft.com/added.php...nhl/NHL-Draft-New/2nd-overall-nhl-draft-picks
You mentioned Poturalski in your post, and I've not mentioned him on here for months now. Did I miss something amazing he's done since he left UNH, other than sliding down the depth chart in Charlotte?
Sorry, Chuck - you have a type, and your past statements and opinions speak for themselves. I also noticed you've - again - moved the goal posts of the argument from JVR is a third liner to his career is a now only a little disappointing...
I do, however, applaud you're attempt to do some research. I don't see a need to name names, because you're bias will disagree, but there are a number of players on that list who are/will be no more than JVRs equal by the end of his career.
More importantly, I simply point out that JVR can only be judged as a poor number 2 pick relative to his draft class - he was the second pick relative to his peers that summer. Not relative to Daniel Sedin. If he went in a better draft class he would have been picked later. Would you appreciate him then? In HIS draft class, he has been a very good number two pick. I've already proven that. The only forwards who have clearly been more successful than JVR are Kane (who went one) and Jamie Benn (who was picked in the sixth round)...
I did look a little deeper at your research, though, and In terms of goals per game by number two picks JVR already ranks 15th out of 24. So he's middle of the pack in scoring for number two picks all time - which is what he was drafted to do - and still in his prime. The only way one could be aware of JVRs career production and still push the idea that JVR is a third liner is if they have an agenda. Period.
You were one of JVRs loudest critics when he played at UNH, insinuating that he was lazy, selfish, a prima donna, etc. Head in the pros (exactly what you said about AP). You still harp on him, his UNH career and his current accomplishments nine years after he left UNH? Sure seems like there is some passionate distaste there...
I'll also take issue with Greg's idea that JVR has received preferential threatment that Gould didn't receive. JVRs draft status may have been the reason he got to the league immediately. It is his 20-30 goal pace in all but one season since that has earned him the respect and opportunity he has received ever since. Gould may have faced challenges getting into the league, but he played almost 700 games. I think the GMs and coaches knew exactly what they have/had and deployed each player accordingly. Haydar and Krog got screwed by being low/non draft picks. Bobby Gould did not.
JVR skates in a critical scoring role and as PP guy - who likely scores his 200th NHL goal this season - on any team in the league. Disappointed he's not a transcendent player? Fair. Labeling him as a bust, failure or third-liner? Not. And when you make baseless comments like that, without any evidence to back up your claim, I am absolutely calling you out. You are wrong. It is not ridiculous - with good health - to expect JVR to reach 350 career goals. And, again, in an era where scoring is down (as lamented by you), that would put him in the top 150 all-time. ANY team would sign up for that at #2 this summer...
If you want to make the argument that Gould eclipses JVRs UNH career, that's fair. It's probably true given his production and big moments, but it's ONLY true because he played four seasons to JVRs two.
Despite the different eras - Gould only outscored him by one over two seasons. Even though Gould played four seasons, both won a single league title and made two NCAA tournaments. Goulds teams made to FFs. JVR was a banked in BU goal and/or a Danny Dries suspension away from a FF of his own.
You can still take Gould and have a great argument, but If JVR stays at UNH he turns two more good, NCAA Tournament teams into elite-level contenders, likely eclipses 200 points and is probably a two-time AA and a favorite for the Hobey both seasons. Imagine him returning as a JR (Dries too?!) to play with Butler (53 pts that season) and Desimone (37). Or his senior year to play with Sislo (48) and Desimone (41), while Thompson (53) played with Moses (27)...
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As for Poturalski - I bet you just looked at the stat line and got giddy - after a slow start, he has 4-2--6 in his last seven and 4 points in his last three. One more goal this season will give him six, which matches Steve Saviano's career AHL goal mark. Looks like Poturalski is back to his form of last season, which put him om pace to be one the better AHL scorers and knocking on the door of the next level. Tough break...
Do I despise the phenomenon that exists in the sports world that leads, say, a hockey fan to wish they had more hard-working players who score a handful of goals and think their team would be better off without the dynamic player who effortlessly scores 1.5-2 PPG? Absolutely, I do. See the, we need more Chris Miller and less Poturalski posts that made their way to this board late two seasons ago...
But, I don't worship any of these players Chuck - I look at what the numbers and production tell me and I'm objective. There are many times I've come here to post an opinion, looked at the numbers, and posted to opposite. You can prefer whatever players you want - but production is quantifiable. And after all, results are all that matter, right...?
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Go 'Cats!!!
). It took a guy like Bowman to unlock the proverbial extra 10% to get him the Cups and the widespread recognition from peers and coaches he earned in the second half of his career. That's what a coach like Babcock might be able to do for JvR. As for Yzerman, he seems to have learned his lessons so well, he's applying them for one of the best teams in the NHL right now down in that hockey hotbed of Tampa FL.