UNH Wildcats 2018-2019: Souza the Opportunity or Louza the Opportunity

[Cookin4Fun]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2018-2019: Souza the Opportunity or Louza the Opportunity

Also of the seven cut from the Merrimack program, I wonder if any of them would entertain coming north. Likely prospects might be Coomes, Cook and McBride or Freshman Simemon who was looking at UNH at one point prior to committing to MC. Just some thoughts for those thinking outside the box.

 

[Snively65]

Waiting for confirmation on that one from base camp in Thornton.

Ha, ha, ha. Of course, I will buy you a beer if we do not reach 14 wins (dreaded ties), Chuck, which will likely be the case. But, it will need to be at Libby's next season, as I will not be at da Gahdin if my team ain't there.

I also need to review old threads, because I think that I have already won at least a couple of your contests with the reward being a free beer at Libby's.

Cookin4Fun, I cannot imagine that Souza would take any players cut by Merrimack, which would make no logical sense on several levels. First, Merrimack has done much more poorly than UNH on the ice this past season, so why would we want players that were part of that? Second, Merrimack has done a terrible job recruiting, and bringing in 20 recruits for this coming season simply reflects that. Finally, Souza and his assistants have their own recruits targeted, for better or for worse; I doubt that there is room on the roster to pick up Merrimack rejects. Now, if an opportunity arises to pick up a transfer from a top program, that would make more sense to me, especially if Gildon, Wyse, and Maase all leave.

 

[Chuck Murray]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2018-2019: Souza the Opportunity or Louza the Opportunity

Gotta agree with Snively65, I don't see anything to be gained from scouring through Borek's leftovers. Didn't we just get away from the "quantity vs. quality" approach to recruiting when he left Durham?

I haven't been keeping track of the outgoing frosties, but I know you are a man of your word, and I'm looking forward to paying off appropriately whenever/wherever the opportunity arises!

 

[Greg Ambrose]

So... I occasionally like to check out what recruits are going where, etc, etc... I just noticed on CHN that Merrimack has 20, yes 20 recruits listed for next season. I realize that Borek just dumped 9 current students in addition to the seniors leaving but man that is going to be one full locker room. Thoughts anyone?

Borek has been a failure at the two schools where he has been a head coach. His ability to recruit at UNH diminished almost every year. Now he’s at Merrimack, one of the worst teams in the country, playing their home games in a glorified high school rink, at a school where fan support has been tepid at best. I doubt if expectations are high in North Andover.

 

[Greg Ambrose]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2018-2019: Souza the Opportunity or Louza the Opportunity

To weigh in as a third party in the ongoing epic debate between Chuck and Dan, I go by the eye test. Robinson had many very solid games this year. I’ve seen him save UNH’s bacon several times after a poor defensive play by one UNH player or another. While guys like Wyse, Gildon, and Maas are serviceable defensemen, I haven’t been enamored with the forwards’ ability to defend all year. Against teams at UNH’s level (that would be the teams in the bottom half of the league), Robinson has more than held his own. The only two games against the second division that disappointed me were the second game at home against Maine and the second game at UVM. Other than that he has held his own. But against most teams in the upper half, he has struggled. The games against UMass and NU speak for themselves. They were not pretty because, for the most part, the offenses of those teams were far superior that any team defense we could offer. Same holds true when I saw them play at BU in January. I thought going in to that game that they might have a chance. But BU has too many skilled forwards who, although young, made plays that UNH couldn’t handle. Robinson needed to make some bell ringers to keep the game manageable but he didn’t. But against the bottom claimers he did well enough to give his team a chance to win most of the time. More than you can say about the starting goalie last year.

As for that comparison with Tirone, there is no reasonable way that you could ever convince me that Tirone is the equal of Robinson. I really don’t care about the stats and what they say or not say. The eye test will tell you that Tirone was out of position way too much. He was not good at controlling rebounds, he flopped too much and, at least once or twice a game he would be on the ice with his back to,the play. He just wasn’t any good and the fact that the ever patient Umile pulled him around a half dozen time last year tells you how bad he was. Never forget that he “anchored” a team that won one stinkin game in three months. After watching Robinson for two or three games this year I’d ask my friends why Robinson didn’t play last year. No one had a polite answer.

 

[Snively65]

Gotta agree with Snively65, I don't see anything to be gained from scouring through Borek's leftovers. Didn't we just get away from the "quantity vs. quality" approach to recruiting when he left Durham?

I haven't been keeping track of the outgoing frosties, but I know you are a man of your word, and I'm looking forward to paying off appropriately whenever/wherever the opportunity arises!

Oh, and the beers at Libby's, even the crafty ones, are about half the price of whatever swill the Garden is selling these days.

 

[Greg Ambrose]

Oh, and the beers at Libby's, even the crafty ones, are about half the price of whatever swill the Garden is selling these days.

Lots of decent beers at the Garden. It’s just that they cost 12 bucks. Btw, they don’t take cash anymore, just credit and debit cards.

 

[Chuck Murray]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2018-2019: Souza the Opportunity or Louza the Opportunity

So... I occasionally like to check out what recruits are going where, etc, etc... I just noticed on CHN that Merrimack has 20, yes 20 recruits listed for next season. I realize that Borek just dumped 9 current students in addition to the seniors leaving but man that is going to be one full locker room. Thoughts anyone?

Given yesterday's real-world news, I was surprised not to see Merrimack and Coach Borek tied in with "recruiting" of the who-knew-they-were-so-good kids of Felicity Huffman and Lori Loughlin?

 

[wildcatdc]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2018-2019: Souza the Opportunity or Louza the Opportunity

Living and working 50% of my life here in the Twin Cities, I’ve been watching a sad parallel to our own UNH experience unfold over the last few years. And this is in the “State of Hockey”, with plenty of hardware, and a fan base that could fill both mariucci and the xcel center on High School tournament weekend.

It seems endemic, but for those teams where they have success AND are the only game in town (e.g. UMD), or where their success is brand new (our QF opponents).

I submit for your reading displeasure...

http://www.citypages.com/news/an-em...to-minnesota-gophers-hockey-dynasty/506957241

 

[chickod]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2018-2019: Souza the Opportunity or Louza the Opportunity

Living and working 50% of my life here in the Twin Cities, I’ve been watching a sad parallel to our own UNH experience unfold over the last few years. And this is in the “State of Hockey”, with plenty of hardware, and a fan base that could fill both mariucci and the xcel center on High School tournament weekend.

It seems endemic, but for those teams where they have success AND are the only game in town (e.g. UMD), or where their success is brand new (our QF opponents).

I submit for your reading displeasure...

http://www.citypages.com/news/an-em...to-minnesota-gophers-hockey-dynasty/506957241

Although perhaps an extreme case, it is certainly symptomatic of what many of us have been screaming about (mostly to deaf ears or people in denial evidently) for years. What's worse is I'm not sure there is much that can be done about it. Attending a sporting event does not have the "draw" that it used to, because consumers have changed their habits. Everyone complains (in those cities where it still applies - obviously not here due to the success of the Patriots) about the "blackout" rule in the NFL, but the reality is, that's about the only way to protect the gate. How can people be demanding streaming of every game, yet from the other side of their mouths "complain" about the attendance at said games? You can't have it both ways. If we're going to make our man (and woman) caves a virtual reality arena, then how can you expect those people to ever venture out?

 

[d.gerry]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2018-2019: Souza the Opportunity or Louza the Opportunity

Although perhaps an extreme case, it is certainly symptomatic of what many of us have been screaming about (mostly to deaf ears or people in denial evidently) for years. What's worse is I'm not sure there is much that can be done about it. Attending a sporting event does not have the "draw" that it used to, because consumers have changed their habits. Everyone complains (in those cities where it still applies - obviously not here due to the success of the Patriots) about the "blackout" rule in the NFL, but the reality is, that's about the only way to protect the gate. How can people be demanding streaming of every game, yet from the other side of their mouths "complain" about the attendance at said games? You can't have it both ways. If we're going to make our man (and woman) caves a virtual reality arena, then how can you expect those people to ever venture out?

The "consumers have changed their habits" aka "there is more competition for entertainment dollars" has been gone over before. IMO, it is not the answer to the problem. It might be a very small part of the problem but, in no way is it the main reason for the decline in attendance. You can't compare sitting on your couch watching the game (even with surround sound, big screen TV, and all the $1.50 beer you can drink) with that of watching the game live and being part of the actual experience. It all comes down to success, when a team wins, fans want to be part of that winning. Look at the Whit this year, UNH went on a bit of a win streak and the crowds continually grew. Hey we even had a sellout for the Maine game, how does that happen if no one really cares and would rather sit in the basement and watch on TV? Back in the glory days almost all UNH home games were on NHPTV, and the games would still sellout. Now with UNH this year, some of the improvement in attendance was good marketing on behalf of the athletic department (probably lots of discounted or free tickets for all those elementary/middle schoolers singing the national anthem), but kudos to them for finding ways to get people back in the seats. Many of these were families with young kids, which who knows maybe created a few new fans who might return for a few games next year. It all comes down to winning, if UNH gets back to it, the arena will be full.

 

[chickod]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2018-2019: Souza the Opportunity or Louza the Opportunity

The "consumers have changed their habits" aka "there is more competition for entertainment dollars" has been gone over before. IMO, it is not the answer to the problem. It might be a very small part of the problem but, in no way is it the main reason for the decline in attendance. You can't compare sitting on your couch watching the game (even with surround sound, big screen TV, and all the $1.50 beer you can drink) with that of watching the game live and being part of the actual experience. It all comes down to success, when a team wins, fans want to be part of that winning. Look at the Whit this year, UNH went on a bit of a win streak and the crowds continually grew. Hey we even had a sellout for the Maine game, how does that happen if no one really cares and would rather sit in the basement and watch on TV? Back in the glory days almost all UNH home games were on NHPTV, and the games would still sellout. Now with UNH this year, some of the improvement in attendance was good marketing on behalf of the athletic department (probably lots of discounted or free tickets for all those elementary/middle schoolers singing the national anthem), but kudos to them for finding ways to get people back in the seats. Many of these were families with young kids, which who knows maybe created a few new fans who might return for a few games next year. It all comes down to winning, if UNH gets back to it, the arena will be full.

WE can't compare it, but I'm not 25 years old, either. I didn't grow up in that generation, so I can't relate and they can't relate to my philosophy. YES, to us, we would much rather be at the game. But that's not the case to a large extent with them. And to say "it's been gone over before" doesn't make the point irrelevant. "Competition for the entertainment dollar" in the "old days" meant the person chose to "go" somewhere else. That's not what I'm saying. I'm not saying they go to a Broadway show INSTEAD of the game. I'm saying they don't go to EITHER. They are more likely to stay home. So that argument won't wash today...it's not about getting them to the GAME...it's about getting them to come OUT from their mother's basement. Now I know I'll get lambasted for that, and like anything else, I don't mean everybody, but MORE than in our generation (we didn't have a choice...we had three channels: 4,5 7 and no computers - either you went to the game or you read about it in the paper the next day). I went on a job interview two years ago and a couple of 22 year-old kids asked me "What do you do to geek out?" That was an interview question. I wanted to respond "Who cares? What does that have to do with anything?" until I realized that that's what THEY do. They can't carry on a social conversation because they don't go out in public. That's the issue that we're dealing with. And I know someone will throw the "UMass" argument at me ("Look at how their games are packed, and it's because they are WINNING") Well I went to a BU/UMass game at Mullins ten years ago and it was packed and UMass wasn't good then. I don't care what ANYONE says, if you are trying to tell me attendance isn't down everywhere then you are living in a cave. Maybe a better way to put it is this generation doesn't like to "watch" things. They like to "participate." Because that's what you do in virtual reality, or a video game. So it's not a knock on them...it's an explanation that with more options available, they choose to do multiple things. WE used to watch the 11:00 news every night, too. We HAD to if we wanted to know anything. We didn't have any other source (besides newspapers). The kids today get information from an almost unlimited supply of sources. They are more facile with multi-tasking. I'm telling you, I went to the Hockey East semi-finals a few years ago (in fact, it was when UNH was there). There was an entire row of college age kids sitting in front of me and they never LOOKED at the ice once. I'm serious. They were taking selfies, talking and had their heads stuck in their phones the entire game. I wanted to say "Why did you go to the game?" but they would think I was nuts. Because that's HOW they live. They have short attention spans because they are inundated with sensory overload. You adapt to your environment, and the environment today is not conducive to them sitting in one place for three hours and focusing on one game.

Have you BEEN to the HE Tourney in awhile? The place was 1/3 full for the second game last year in the semis. Have you seen the Beanpot attendance? Are you going to explain that by saying "They're not winning?" WHO'S not winning. There are four teams there. They're all "losing?" Pretending the problem doesn't exist won't change anything. I had season tickets at Agganis for ten years. I don't have them anymore. Why? Because I can walk in anytime I want and sit anywhere I want because the place is 75% EMPTY. Every game. Does BU "not win?" (yeah, ok, this year we don't) They were in the National Championship game in 2015.

 

[d.gerry]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2018-2019: Souza the Opportunity or Louza the Opportunity

Thought we were talking about Minnesota attendance and drawing a parallel to UNH, didn't know we were talking about Hockey East or college hockey at large. My point, if UNH gets back to consistently winning you will have more fans in the seats. Again, how do explain the Maine sellout this year (with Friday night pretty close too)? Its because UNH was playing well at the time, and interest was up. Why aren't fans going to Agganis, or the Garden for the Beanpot or HE Tourney? I don't know, you probably have some valid points. As far as UNH goes, you rip off a season without a loss at the Whittemore Center, and I'll bet you a beer at Libby's the place will be full again.

 

[chickod]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2018-2019: Souza the Opportunity or Louza the Opportunity

Thought we were talking about Minnesota attendance and drawing a parallel to UNH, didn't know we were talking about Hockey East or college hockey at large. My point, if UNH gets back to consistently winning you will have more fans in the seats. Again, how do explain the Maine sellout this year (with Friday night pretty close too)? Its because UNH was playing well at the time, and interest was up. Why aren't fans going to Agganis, or the Garden for the Beanpot or HE Tourney? I don't know, you probably have some valid points. As far as UNH goes, you rip off a season without a loss at the Whittemore Center, and I'll bet you a beer at Libby's the place will be full again.

Well I can't speak for UNH...remember also that Durham is a little more isolated compared to, say, Boston, so I'm sure that's true. But the argument doesn't hold as much for schools in the metropolitan areas (as in the aforementioned case of BU). Anyway, here's the streaming info:

HEA playoffs are being streamed on FloSports.
Here's the link to the announcement, see paragraph 3:

<a href="https://www.flohockey.tv/articles/63...ey-hockey-east" style="color:blue">Hockey East Streaming</a>

 

[e.cat]

Thought we were talking about Minnesota attendance and drawing a parallel to UNH, didn't know we were talking about Hockey East or college hockey at large. My point, if UNH gets back to consistently winning you will have more fans in the seats. Again, how do explain the Maine sellout this year (with Friday night pretty close too)? Its because UNH was playing well at the time, and interest was up. Why aren't fans going to Agganis, or the Garden for the Beanpot or HE Tourney? I don't know, you probably have some valid points. As far as UNH goes, you rip off a season without a loss at the Whittemore Center, and I'll bet you a beer at Libby's the place will be full again.

Agree with you. Furthermore, if I'm not mistaken, UNH had the highest average attendance of any Hockey East school this year! Not bad for so so season.

 

[wildcatdc]

Agree with you. Furthermore, if I'm not mistaken, UNH had the highest average attendance of any Hockey East school this year! Not bad for so so season.

Agreed with yours and dgerry’s points. If you read the article, it’s interesting how close the narratives are to what we as fans experienced at the Whitt in Umile’s last 4-5 years, combined with administrative decision-making gaffes. That stated, I think we hit our nadir last season and it was fun to see an improvement in attendance. Wins WILL fill seats.

I also agree generally with Chickod’s point on alternatives. It’s the simple economics theory of substitution, especially for the millennials and gen Z’s. Even on the most packed nights this season, you looked around the rink and aside from students, those were two missing demographic groups. It’s a macro issue that storied programs like ours and the Gophers have to deal with, or better yet, proactively address.

 

[amkirby10]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2018-2019: Souza the Opportunity or Louza the Opportunity

The attendance topic came up in another thread (which I suppose I owe you an apology for, chickod, I didnt mean to be so hostile earlier) and I thought Id offer my perspective.

Attendance is down, there's no doubt about it. You just have to go to a game or look at the numbers, and you'll see it. But I dont think its because of student or young people apathy. Im currently a student, and I have nearly perfect attendance at Maine home games since I started school almost three years ago. For me and my friends, at least, each game is an event. Weekends during the season are my favorite, and we go to every game together and get the same spot in the balcony every night. And if the team is away, we watch the game if we can. And other kids feel the same, the balcony is nearly full for every game, and sometimes Ive seen them have to turn people away. Ive also been to at least one road game to see Maine play at every arena in the conference except for Conte, Mullins, and XL. At all those games, except for BU which was during winter break, their student sections were full or close to it as well. At the Whitt, the entire place was full, though that has the added benefit of being a rivalry game. But anyway, the point is, students are turning out, but thats for a very simple reason: its free, at least for us. I dont know for sure about other schools, but at least for us the tickets are free. If they weren't, you can bet we wouldn't be going to more than a few games a year, if that. And thats my overarching point: general attendance other than students is down, but that's because prices are too high. There are seats at Alfond in the first few rows that can go for $50 apiece. Thats absurd for any collegiate game, especially for one who isn't a national title contender. I would assume the same story applies at every barn in Hockey East: prices are too high for the general public to be able to afford to go consistently. If you dropped ticket prices, I bet attendance in the entire arena would skyrocket. That's my perspective, anyway; I dont look forward to having to start having to pay for tickets after next year

 

[chickod]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2018-2019: Souza the Opportunity or Louza the Opportunity

The attendance topic came up in another thread (which I suppose I owe you an apology for, chickod, I didnt mean to be so hostile earlier) and I thought Id offer my perspective.

Attendance is down, there's no doubt about it. You just have to go to a game or look at the numbers, and you'll see it. But I dont think its because of student or young people apathy. Im currently a student, and I have nearly perfect attendance at Maine home games since I started school almost three years ago. For me and my friends, at least, each game is an event. Weekends during the season are my favorite, and we go to every game together and get the same spot in the balcony every night. And if the team is away, we watch the game if we can. And other kids feel the same, the balcony is nearly full for every game, and sometimes Ive seen them have to turn people away. Ive also been to at least one road game to see Maine play at every arena in the conference except for Conte, Mullins, and XL. At all those games, except for BU which was during winter break, their student sections were full or close to it as well. At the Whitt, the entire place was full, though that has the added benefit of being a rivalry game. But anyway, the point is, students are turning out, but thats for a very simple reason: its free, at least for us. I dont know for sure about other schools, but at least for us the tickets are free. If they weren't, you can bet we wouldn't be going to more than a few games a year, if that. And thats my overarching point: general attendance other than students is down, but that's because prices are too high. There are seats at Alfond in the first few rows that can go for $50 apiece. Thats absurd for any collegiate game, especially for one who isn't a national title contender. I would assume the same story applies at every barn in Hockey East: prices are too high for the general public to be able to afford to go consistently. If you dropped ticket prices, I bet attendance in the entire arena would skyrocket. That's my perspective, anyway; I dont look forward to having to start having to pay for tickets after next year

Yes, I agree. Unfortunately, until the schools see it that way, nothing will change. What's sort of ironic is that I assume all of these schools teach business courses. Common sense tells you that if cutting the ticket prices in half doubles the attendance, then you will get MORE revenue because the ancillary income (parking, concessions, etc.) will rise simply because there are more people. So I can only assume that the decision makers aren't aware or (scarier even) don't care.

Note to Math Professors who might be reading this:
a = 5000 p = $50 a x p = $250,000
a = 10,000 p = $25 a x p = $250,000 + additional revenue from concessions

(not that I'm being sarcastic or anything...)

 

[Greg Ambrose]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2018-2019: Souza the Opportunity or Louza the Opportunity

Well I guess we have to revisit this issue once again. While I’ll agree that winning solves a lot, and UMass and Lowell prove it, how do you explain the lack of attendance at Northeastern and Providence? Northeastern not only wins, but wins in an exciting fashion. They have won the last two Beanpots where Northeastern has the most fans of any of the four schools by a wide margin. But somehow that doesn’t translate to attendance at Matthews Arena, which is no more than a ten minute walk from anyplace on the Northeastern campus. As for Providence, attendance at Schneider has always been abysmal. In UNH’s heyday, a weekend game down there with the Friars would usually have more UNH fans than from PC. Maine never sells out. BU most nights is half full, same with BC. Part of the reason at the later two is because the teams aren’t winning anymore but you would think that, especially at Bu, that attendance would be better than it has been.

As for the Beanpot, I have been going almost every year since I was in high school. Back in the day it indeed was an athletic and social must, as Snooks Kelley famously stated. That was back in the day when the vast majority of the players on all four teams were from Massachusetts, the vast majority of the students (except for Harvard) were from Massachusetts and, most importantly, the vast majority of alums lived and worked in Massachusetts. No more. The players most often come from places like Florida and Texas. This means that their family and friends are unable to hop on the T or take the train into town to watch the kid they grew up with play at the hallowed Garden. All four schools have a less Boston centric demographic where so many of them students don’t look at hockey as a passion but something to do on a Monday night. And, as for alums, a lot of these kids who came from somewhere else leave after graduation and rarely come back. They are certainly not returning for the Beanpot. Combine all these factors with the attention span of kids in the multi media age and you have the reason why the first two Mondays in February are not circled on the calendar anymore.

 

[chickod]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2018-2019: Souza the Opportunity or Louza the Opportunity

Well I guess we have to revisit this issue once again. While I’ll agree that winning solves a lot, and UMass and Lowell prove it, how do you explain the lack of attendance at Northeastern and Providence? Northeastern not only wins, but wins in an exciting fashion. They have won the last two Beanpots where Northeastern has the most fans of any of the four schools by a wide margin. But somehow that doesn’t translate to attendance at Matthews Arena, which is no more than a ten minute walk from anyplace on the Northeastern campus. As for Providence, attendance at Schneider has always been abysmal. In UNH’s heyday, a weekend game down there with the Friars would usually have more UNH fans than from PC. Maine never sells out. BU most nights is half full, same with BC. Part of the reason at the later two is because the teams aren’t winning anymore but you would think that, especially at Bu, that attendance would be better than it has been.

As for the Beanpot, I have been going almost every year since I was in high school. Back in the day it indeed was an athletic and social must, as Snooks Kelley famously stated. That was back in the day when the vast majority of the players on all four teams were from Massachusetts, the vast majority of the students (except for Harvard) were from Massachusetts and, most importantly, the vast majority of alums lived and worked in Massachusetts. No more. The players most often come from places like Florida and Texas. This means that their family and friends are unable to hop on the T or take the train into town to watch the kid they grew up with play at the hallowed Garden. All four schools have a less Boston centric demographic where so many of them students don’t look at hockey as a passion but something to do on a Monday night. And, as for alums, a lot of these kids who came from somewhere else leave after graduation and rarely come back. They are certainly not returning for the Beanpot. Combine all these factors with the attention span of kids in the multi media age and you have the reason why the first two Mondays in February are not circled on the calendar anymore.

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