Hey, we beat Flagship 3-0 and 3-1 during the regular season ...... last year.
USCHO Fan Forum
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
-
The USCHO Fan Forum has migrated to a new plaform, xenForo. Most of the function of the forum should work in familiar ways. Please note that you can switch between light and dark modes by clicking on the gear icon in the upper right of the main menu bar. We are hoping that this new platform will prove to be faster and more reliable. Please feel free to explore its features.
UNH Wildcats 2018-2019: Souza the Opportunity or Louza the Opportunity
- Thread starter Snively65
- Start date
- Status
Hey, we beat Flagship 3-0 and 3-1 during the regular season ...... last year.
Re: UNH Wildcats 2018-2019: Souza the Opportunity or Louza the Opportunity
We out shot NU last night 35-24. The coaches need to figure out how to teach the players how to convert shots and scoring opportunities into goals. I am sure the coaches will be watching a lot of video tape of UMass the next couple of days. All teams have strengths and weaknesses. The coaches just need to figure out a way to minimize their strengths and take advantage of their weaknesses. Much easier said than done.
We out shot NU last night 35-24. The coaches need to figure out how to teach the players how to convert shots and scoring opportunities into goals. I am sure the coaches will be watching a lot of video tape of UMass the next couple of days. All teams have strengths and weaknesses. The coaches just need to figure out a way to minimize their strengths and take advantage of their weaknesses. Much easier said than done.
HockeyRef
Well-known member
I think it’s a playmaker issue. You can coach “pucks to the net” all day long but if you aren’t getting many grade A chances any goalie worth their salt has a shot at making the save. Teams like NU take advantage of what they get and we gave them too many decent SOG’s. That being said we did have some excellent opps ourselves but they have this guy named Primeau...
Like Dan points out UMass’ up tempo game will present a problem for us...that’s the issue how to keep their transition game to a minimum which is wjere we got into trouble last night imho....I dunno am not sure about all of that just what I observe!
Will Grasso be in the lineup this weekend? BvR?
Re: UNH Wildcats 2018-2019: Souza the Opportunity or Louza the Opportunity
Took a look at some goals against / Robinson numbers after last night - as it's become a pattern for him to have some of his worst outings against NU. I think much of the blame lies in the match-up and in UNH's inability to contain the Huskies in front of the goaltender (as all UNH goalies have struggled BADLY against NU the last few years)...
The numbers are interesting nonetheless and, to me, illustrate just how good, consistent and dependable Robinson is when UNH can match-up in front of him. Still, the next step in his development will be to show an ability to steal games when UNH is outmanned. This coming weekend would be a good place to start...
Robinson vs Northeastern: 4.67 GAA / .825 SPCT
Robinson vs All Others: 2.19 GAA / .925 SPCT
---
The match-up with UMass has been, unfortunately, similar in style and result. Robinson has played two games against the Minutemen posting a 4.58 GAA and an .839 SPCT. Either UNH or Robinson (or likely both) will need to step up in a big way next weekend if the team is going to advance to Boston...
UMass and NU represent essentially five games worth of minutes played for Robinson in his career (300). In the remaining 1600+ Robinson has been terrific - 2.02 GAA / .954 SPCT.
Whether or not Robinson can go from terrific to elite will be the biggest factor for UNH success next year (or, hopefully, next weekend)...
Took a look at some goals against / Robinson numbers after last night - as it's become a pattern for him to have some of his worst outings against NU. I think much of the blame lies in the match-up and in UNH's inability to contain the Huskies in front of the goaltender (as all UNH goalies have struggled BADLY against NU the last few years)...
The numbers are interesting nonetheless and, to me, illustrate just how good, consistent and dependable Robinson is when UNH can match-up in front of him. Still, the next step in his development will be to show an ability to steal games when UNH is outmanned. This coming weekend would be a good place to start...
Robinson vs Northeastern: 4.67 GAA / .825 SPCT
Robinson vs All Others: 2.19 GAA / .925 SPCT
---
The match-up with UMass has been, unfortunately, similar in style and result. Robinson has played two games against the Minutemen posting a 4.58 GAA and an .839 SPCT. Either UNH or Robinson (or likely both) will need to step up in a big way next weekend if the team is going to advance to Boston...
UMass and NU represent essentially five games worth of minutes played for Robinson in his career (300). In the remaining 1600+ Robinson has been terrific - 2.02 GAA / .954 SPCT.
Whether or not Robinson can go from terrific to elite will be the biggest factor for UNH success next year (or, hopefully, next weekend)...
Last edited:
Re: UNH Wildcats 2018-2019: Souza the Opportunity or Louza the Opportunity
In reply to HR's post in the "UNH vs NU and UML to finish the regular season" thread (rest in peace), I did not realize that Ryan Bamford was the Flagship's AD. Besides his father Steve being AD at Plymouth State for 13 years, Steve Bamford was also Plymouth State's first 1000 point scorer in basketball, and before that was Oyster River High School's first 1000 point scorer in Durham, which is where I remember watching him play basketball when I was a little kid. And, as for Greg Carvel, he coached several winning seasons at St Lawrence before leaving for Flagship, and the Saints have been a disaster since.
In reply to HR's post in the "UNH vs NU and UML to finish the regular season" thread (rest in peace), I did not realize that Ryan Bamford was the Flagship's AD. Besides his father Steve being AD at Plymouth State for 13 years, Steve Bamford was also Plymouth State's first 1000 point scorer in basketball, and before that was Oyster River High School's first 1000 point scorer in Durham, which is where I remember watching him play basketball when I was a little kid. And, as for Greg Carvel, he coached several winning seasons at St Lawrence before leaving for Flagship, and the Saints have been a disaster since.
Re: UNH Wildcats 2018-2019: Souza the Opportunity or Louza the Opportunity
For us to score more goals we have to make life more difficult for opposing goalies. We all have to admit that Primeau is a really good goalie. When he can see the puck our shooters are just playing catch with him! Over the next couple of days watch NHL highlights and instead of watching the puck watch the goalie and the low slot area. It is surprising how many goals are scored in the NHL from players screening the goalie, deflecting the shot and burying the rebounds!
For us to score more goals we have to make life more difficult for opposing goalies. We all have to admit that Primeau is a really good goalie. When he can see the puck our shooters are just playing catch with him! Over the next couple of days watch NHL highlights and instead of watching the puck watch the goalie and the low slot area. It is surprising how many goals are scored in the NHL from players screening the goalie, deflecting the shot and burying the rebounds!
HockeyRef
Well-known member
Re: UNH Wildcats 2018-2019: Souza the Opportunity or Louza the Opportunity
Which I thought they did a great job when they parked big bodied Anthony Wyse in front...def had some chances then! A few shots went wide, etc but some were on target. Like someone said to me, 'at least Matt Murray is more of a human than Cayden Primeau' (meaning...Primeau is a beast to beat...but every dog has his day but sadly, not with us)
Which I thought they did a great job when they parked big bodied Anthony Wyse in front...def had some chances then! A few shots went wide, etc but some were on target. Like someone said to me, 'at least Matt Murray is more of a human than Cayden Primeau' (meaning...Primeau is a beast to beat...but every dog has his day but sadly, not with us)
Chuck Murray
WIS & Effingwoods Hockey Almanac
Re: UNH Wildcats 2018-2019: Souza the Opportunity or Louza the Opportunity
I hate to jump in here, Dan, but I think you're being a little too kind with your classification of Robinson's play as it relates to the rest of the league. Let's look at the copied link to USCHO's Hockey East goaltenders table, which shows the Top 10 goalies in the league, sorted by (I believe) goals against average in league play, with a minimum of 10 league games played:
https://www.uscho.com/conference/hockey-east
The table shows Robinson at #10 for GAA, which is pretty much middle-of-the-pack stuff overall in the league (if not leaning slightly towards the top end of the lower half, as opposed to the lower end of the top half). Funny thing is, if you sort it by his save percentage, the outcome is the same, at #10 in the league this season. Nothing to be ashamed about, mind you … but not quite "terrific" and a far leap further to "elite".
To be fair, Robinson has had a good season. I don't want to belittle that here. My only thought is that he's not quite as far up the HE pecking order as your analysis would suggest. "Terrific" should mean someone given serious consideration for All Conference, and I don't see that happening - not this season anyway.
There is always an argument to isolate data for inclusion (or exclusion), and there are always going to be weird scenarios where (for example) UMaine fans are going to think Danny Tirone was the second coming of Dominik Hasek. Let's hope next weekend (and beyond?) Robinson starts to take some of those further steps up into "terrific"-land, and possibly gives us a glimpse of an "elite" future too.
Took a look at some goals against / Robinson numbers after last night - as it's become a pattern for him to have some of his worst outings against NU. I think much of the blame lies in the match-up and in UNH's inability to contain the Huskies in front of the goaltender (as all UNH goalies have struggled BADLY against NU the last few years)...
The numbers are interesting nonetheless and, to me, illustrate just how good, consistent and dependable Robinson is when UNH can match-up in front of him. Still, the next step in his development will be to show an ability to steal games when UNH is outmanned. This coming weekend would be a good place to start...
Robinson vs Northeastern: 4.67 GAA / .825 SPCT
Robinson vs All Others: 2.19 GAA / .925 SPCT
---
The match-up with UMass has been, unfortunately, similar in style and result. Robinson has played two games against the Minutemen posting a 4.58 GAA and an .839 SPCT. Either UNH or Robinson (or likely both) will need to step up in a big way next weekend if the team is going to advance to Boston...
UMass and NU represent essentially five games worth of minutes played for Robinson in his career (300). In the remaining 1600+ Robinson has been terrific - 2.02 GAA / .954 SPCT.
Whether or not Robinson can go from terrific to elitewill be the biggest factor for UNH success next year (or, hopefully, next weekend)...
I hate to jump in here, Dan, but I think you're being a little too kind with your classification of Robinson's play as it relates to the rest of the league. Let's look at the copied link to USCHO's Hockey East goaltenders table, which shows the Top 10 goalies in the league, sorted by (I believe) goals against average in league play, with a minimum of 10 league games played:
https://www.uscho.com/conference/hockey-east
The table shows Robinson at #10 for GAA, which is pretty much middle-of-the-pack stuff overall in the league (if not leaning slightly towards the top end of the lower half, as opposed to the lower end of the top half). Funny thing is, if you sort it by his save percentage, the outcome is the same, at #10 in the league this season. Nothing to be ashamed about, mind you … but not quite "terrific" and a far leap further to "elite".
To be fair, Robinson has had a good season. I don't want to belittle that here. My only thought is that he's not quite as far up the HE pecking order as your analysis would suggest. "Terrific" should mean someone given serious consideration for All Conference, and I don't see that happening - not this season anyway.
There is always an argument to isolate data for inclusion (or exclusion), and there are always going to be weird scenarios where (for example) UMaine fans are going to think Danny Tirone was the second coming of Dominik Hasek. Let's hope next weekend (and beyond?) Robinson starts to take some of those further steps up into "terrific"-land, and possibly gives us a glimpse of an "elite" future too.
I hate to jump in here, Dan, but I think you're being a little too kind with your classification of Robinson's play as it relates to the rest of the league. Let's look at the copied link to USCHO's Hockey East goaltenders table, which shows the Top 10 goalies in the league, sorted by (I believe) goals against average in league play, with a minimum of 10 league games played:
https://www.uscho.com/conference/hockey-east
The table shows Robinson at #10 for GAA, which is pretty much middle-of-the-pack stuff overall in the league (if not leaning slightly towards the top end of the lower half, as opposed to the lower end of the top half). Funny thing is, if you sort it by his save percentage, the outcome is the same, at #10 in the league this season. Nothing to be ashamed about, mind you … but not quite "terrific" and a far leap further to "elite".
To be fair, Robinson has had a good season. I don't want to belittle that here. My only thought is that he's not quite as far up the HE pecking order as your analysis would suggest. "Terrific" should mean someone given serious consideration for All Conference, and I don't see that happening - not this season anyway.
There is always an argument to isolate data for inclusion (or exclusion), and there are always going to be weird scenarios where (for example) UMaine fans are going to think Danny Tirone was the second coming of Dominik Hasek. Let's hope next weekend (and beyond?) Robinson starts to take some of those further steps up into "terrific"-land, and possibly gives us a glimpse of an "elite" future too.
Skipping the semantics of how we define words differently, here is how I see it - there is a small pool of elite NCAA goaltenders who could put up elite numbers on any team and consistently can steal games despite their team's performance. The most notable being Steffanos Lekkas who plays on a horrible and consistently overmatched UVM team and is still among the NCAA leaders in all statistical categories.
After that small group there is a larger group of very good NCAA goaltenders who's stats and performance vary within their peer group based on the performance of their teams. Some of these goaltenders post stellar numbers playing behind some of the best teams in the country. Others look a lot worse than they are behind young, inexperienced or inferior groups of players.
Mike Robinson is in this large group of very good goaltenders - as BOTH the stats and eye-test tell me. He plays for a middling UNH team and his numbers indicate he excells in the majority of his appearances excluding those contests when his UNH teammates are outmanned by the offensive competition (NU and UMass)...
I posted his overall numbers in the last thread - here are his statistics with and without the outlier match-ups in HE play. He has an overall GAA of 2.50. In 240 minutes against UMass and NU he has allowed a 4.50 goals against average. In the remaining 1105 minutes that figure plummets to 2.06! The goalie is the same, so what's the difference...?
For second-tier, yet very good goaltenders like Robinson, team performance is still a factor. I don't see this as four random poor performances - it's limited to two opponents and one style of play/the same mismatch for UNH. It's truly becoming a pattern - for UNH the team. As I've admitted, he is not at that point where he can steal grade-A chances and games consistently. That's the next step, and yes, it's a big one...
Here's a point of comparison that indicates how team performance impacts goaltenders in college hockey. One might look at the national goaltender statistics and notice Devin Cooley of Denver sitting third in SPCT (.932) and seventh in GAA (1.94). Is Devin Cooley elite? Is he better than Robinson...?
Cooley played 43 games across three junior leagues posting a .909 SPCT in ten NAHL games and failing to top .887 in either the USHL or BCHL. In the NAHL Cooley also backed up - wait for it - Mike Robinson and eventually bolted for more PT. The answer to the above question is hell no!
Cooley came to Denver as a walk-on third stringer and with good fortune in both injury and transfer got a chance to play behind an elite team with a HIGH commitment to defense. That's the difference.
Cooley's teammate, Filip Larsson is right on his heels stat-wise and has taken a lot of the second-half ice time against the bulk of NCHC competition. The stats wouldn't tell you Larsson is better, but his, near equivalent stats, the eye test and the opponents he draws sure do. I don't need to remind you of the stark difference between Robinson and his fellow creasemate behind the same UNH team. Disparities like this will tell you a lot about how a goaltender is playing, eliminating the biggest variable - his team...
With how he's played for much of this year - Id take Robinson as the starter on any NCHC team not named St Cloud.
Stats, eyetest, variable evaluation it all matters. The whole picture adds up. Robinson is doing a terrific job in meeting UNH's needs and if you put him on a NCHC team like UMD, DU, UND or WMU he would be putting up elite numbers and could win championships. You only need more from a goalie if you don't have the equivalent skaters - that's why the next step is so important for Robinson and whether or not UNH can take a big step forward next year (because they'll still be a step-behind top competition)...
It's one season, he still has a lot to improve on and I'm the first one to speak out about UNHs weaker schedule but watching Robinson it's easy to see the size, athleticism and skating of a very good goaltender. And his statistical dominance when not hung out to dry backs that up, for me...
Last edited:
Re: UNH Wildcats 2018-2019: Souza the Opportunity or Louza the Opportunity
"Ara Nazarian: UNH Career Highlights"
Includes video highlights from last 4 seasons.
"Ara Nazarian: UNH Career Highlights"
Includes video highlights from last 4 seasons.
Chuck Murray
WIS & Effingwoods Hockey Almanac
Re: UNH Wildcats 2018-2019: Souza the Opportunity or Louza the Opportunity
So … UNH gets blasted by NU and UMass in five regular season games, Robinson starts in goal for four of them. But it's NOT because Robinson isn't a top tier "fantastic/very good" goalie, it's because his teammates don't measure up? Maybe Robinson doesn't measure up to that level of opposition, either? Carve those five games out of UNH's HE regular season record, and UNH goes from an 8th seed to challenging for a home ice berth in the QF round. But you can't carve those games out of UNH's record, nor can you carve those relatively poor performances from Robinson's stats. It's called "body of work", and for UNH, that means they were a decent/good team this year, and Robinson was a good (not very good/terrific) goalie this year.
Something not previously mentioned also was the fact that Robinson played behind a better team defense this year, with UNH's four best returning defenders (Gildon/Maass/Wyse/Boyd) having another year of growth/experience, and two promising frosh (MacKinnon/Verrier) replacing two non-impact 3rd pairing types (Marks/Chanter). There's many reasons this was an improved team this year, and that's one that hasn't been mentioned nearly enough.
I'll stand corrected if/when Robinson gets mentioned for All-HE honors in the next two weeks, even for 2nd or 3rd team honors. He's not there on stats, nor is he likely to get there on the collective "eye test" assessments of the 11 D-1 coaches who've seen him play most often. I'll admit, Robinson was a positive surprise to me this season (and much needed, since Taylor turned out to be a negative surprise) but let's not overstate things. So far, anyway. At least until they sweep UMass next weekend.
So … UNH gets blasted by NU and UMass in five regular season games, Robinson starts in goal for four of them. But it's NOT because Robinson isn't a top tier "fantastic/very good" goalie, it's because his teammates don't measure up?
Maybe Robinson doesn't measure up to that level of opposition, either? Carve those five games out of UNH's HE regular season record, and UNH goes from an 8th seed to challenging for a home ice berth in the QF round. But you can't carve those games out of UNH's record, nor can you carve those relatively poor performances from Robinson's stats. It's called "body of work", and for UNH, that means they were a decent/good team this year, and Robinson was a good (not very good/terrific) goalie this year.Something not previously mentioned also was the fact that Robinson played behind a better team defense this year, with UNH's four best returning defenders (Gildon/Maass/Wyse/Boyd) having another year of growth/experience, and two promising frosh (MacKinnon/Verrier) replacing two non-impact 3rd pairing types (Marks/Chanter). There's many reasons this was an improved team this year, and that's one that hasn't been mentioned nearly enough.
I'll stand corrected if/when Robinson gets mentioned for All-HE honors in the next two weeks, even for 2nd or 3rd team honors. He's not there on stats, nor is he likely to get there on the collective "eye test" assessments of the 11 D-1 coaches who've seen him play most often. I'll admit, Robinson was a positive surprise to me this season (and much needed, since Taylor turned out to be a negative surprise) but let's not overstate things. So far, anyway. At least until they sweep UMass next weekend.
So, Robinson cannot have had a great year for UNH because other HE goalies had better years on better teams (or because he didn't have a Lekkas type year). This is your JVR argument. It's a lazy argument in both instances. And why is excluding four outings dismissive of a body of work but excluding the entire non-conference slate makes sense...?
Robinson, by the way, exhibits a full body of work that includes a .920 save percentage, making him the first UNH goalie to rank inside the top-20 nationally in SPCT since DeSmith's FR year and just the second since Regan's senior season. He's an extra goal every 200 shots (6 games) away from the SPCT top-10. I'd say his body of work stacks up with his peers pretty well...
The goalie you were certain would win the job this season (a very talented goalie in his own right) posted an .853 SPCT and an extra 1.5 in GAA behind the same UNH defense. That alone indicates Robinson deserves a lot more credit than you are giving him - for both making saves and making good saves. Right now, Id give him heavy favorite odds on winning the team MVP award...
NU has been bombing UNH over the last 12 match-ups to the tune of 4.29 goals per game. So yes, his teammates are struggling to measure up in this match-up. Meanwhile, UMass is a new team this year and they've been bombing everyone to the tune of being the third best offense in the sport. You think they're a fraud and a great match-up for UNH, but I have a feeling you'll find yourself mistaken this weekend when they outskate UNH in front of Robinson again...
It is proving true again and again that those two teams are not good match-ups for UNH (the Wildcats' six goals in five games vs. UMass/NU is another indication) and that has effected the goaltending in those games. If Robinson played at PC, UMass, Denver, UMD, etc, he's more than good enough to have top-10 numbers and garner attention for post-season honors...
So don't pretend that not winning awards in HE this year defines him. Tell me what you see that indicates he isn't a very good goalie. Give me something specific. A few difficult and outlying outings against a pair of top-8 PWR teams with elite offenses (that turn a sparkling statline into a merely very good one - top 20!) doesn't counter anything...
He's big, he's athletic, he moves side to side quickly, squares shooters very well and he makes 99.9% of the saves he's supposed to make. He's not a thief - that's all that separates him from the handful of elite NCAA goaltenders - yes, it's a BIG step to that level (and one he may never reach)...
Dont forget I told you this would happen after watching him once at CC (which I'm sure is the biggest hurdle you face in admitting how well he's played...)
Robinson, by the way, exhibits a full body of work that includes a .920 save percentage, making him the first UNH goalie to rank inside the top-20 nationally in SPCT since DeSmith's FR year and just the second since Regan's senior season. He's an extra goal every 200 shots (6 games) away from the SPCT top-10. I'd say his body of work stacks up with his peers pretty well...
The goalie you were certain would win the job this season (a very talented goalie in his own right) posted an .853 SPCT and an extra 1.5 in GAA behind the same UNH defense. That alone indicates Robinson deserves a lot more credit than you are giving him - for both making saves and making good saves. Right now, Id give him heavy favorite odds on winning the team MVP award...
NU has been bombing UNH over the last 12 match-ups to the tune of 4.29 goals per game. So yes, his teammates are struggling to measure up in this match-up. Meanwhile, UMass is a new team this year and they've been bombing everyone to the tune of being the third best offense in the sport. You think they're a fraud and a great match-up for UNH, but I have a feeling you'll find yourself mistaken this weekend when they outskate UNH in front of Robinson again...
It is proving true again and again that those two teams are not good match-ups for UNH (the Wildcats' six goals in five games vs. UMass/NU is another indication) and that has effected the goaltending in those games. If Robinson played at PC, UMass, Denver, UMD, etc, he's more than good enough to have top-10 numbers and garner attention for post-season honors...
So don't pretend that not winning awards in HE this year defines him. Tell me what you see that indicates he isn't a very good goalie. Give me something specific. A few difficult and outlying outings against a pair of top-8 PWR teams with elite offenses (that turn a sparkling statline into a merely very good one - top 20!) doesn't counter anything...
He's big, he's athletic, he moves side to side quickly, squares shooters very well and he makes 99.9% of the saves he's supposed to make. He's not a thief - that's all that separates him from the handful of elite NCAA goaltenders - yes, it's a BIG step to that level (and one he may never reach)...
Dont forget I told you this would happen after watching him once at CC (which I'm sure is the biggest hurdle you face in admitting how well he's played...)
Last edited:
Chuck Murray
WIS & Effingwoods Hockey Almanac
Re: UNH Wildcats 2018-2019: Souza the Opportunity or Louza the Opportunity
First of all, as to your last point, truth be told, he's played well … but not as well as you would want us to believe. He's had a good season, not a very good one, and certainly not a great one. The "elites" get to use the word "great". The ones not too far behind (all conference back-ups) get to be the "very goods". Good is not bad, and it's not mediocre. Good is good, and good is what Robinson has given UNH to date. That's not lazy - that's fact. It's more than I expected, but it's not quite up to the "very good" narrative you're trying to create, either. He may improve to the "very good" level next season or his senior season. We'll see. I truly hope he does.
As to the whopper of 'em all … "heavy favorite odds on team MVP"?!?!?
Who are you, and what happened to the president of the "Max Gildon Fan Club"?? Nope, but totally I'd concede Robinson is odds-on for Most Improved Player (and deservedly so).
Ty Taylor this season turned out to be the Mike Robinson of last season. Next season, TT gets to prove whether he is going to be the next Mike Robinson and step up to challenge the incumbent, or if he's going to become the next Adam Clark, doomed to spit the bit most every time he gets a brief look-in. But to be clear (1) I want them both to excel, and (2) if TT can't make the step up to challenge MR, then I'll be 100% in Robinson's corner - just like I was this year, as those events played out.
FWIW … Robinson posted a .003 difference in save percentage this year from his predecessor last year (Tirone), and one more shutout. That's one extra save per 300+ SOG's, or one in every 10 games. Considering the improved play of the top pairings this year, and a better frosh pairing replacing a mediocre pair of seniors (maybe slightly unfair to Marks. but otherwise spot on) … doesn't the team get any credit for that (slight) improvement? My recollection wasn't that you were touting Tirone as "very good" at this time last year. My thought at the time was that Tirone was a good D-1 goalie, and not as poor as you tried to make him out to be. Robinson making an extra save every 300 shots didn't drag UNH up to 8th. The overall team did that.
I'm pretty sure I've never used the word "fraud" to describe UMass, but I have consistently pointed out that neither the players nor the coach can point to any degree of past post-season success. I think I also estimated UNH's chances to beat UMass in the HE QF's to be 20%. Which was a better chance than I gave them against the other, more experienced top 4 HE seeds. So be it.
Anyway ... it's fun to finally have a full year's worth of performances and results to look at. I hope Robinson & Company string together 4 straight shutouts to win the HE Tourney, and four more to win the big trophy. Will it happen? I doubt it … but I'd happily lose any debate due to UNH making further steps back to where they were back in the early years of this century. The guys who make it happen - this year, or whenever - will have my undying respect and admiration, regardless of circumstances.
So, Robinson cannot have had a great year for UNH because other HE goalies had better years on better teams (or because he didn't have a Lekkas type year). This is your JVR argument. It's a lazy argument in both instances. And why is excluding four outings dismissive of a body of work but excluding the entire non-conference slate makes sense...?
Robinson, by the way, exhibits a full body of work that includes a .920 save percentage, making him the first UNH goalie to rank inside the top-20 nationally in SPCT since DeSmith's FR year and just the second since Regan's senior season. He's an extra goal every 200 shots (6 games) away from the SPCT top-10. I'd say his body of work stacks up with his peers pretty well...
The goalie you were certain would win the job this season (a very talented goalie in his own right) posted an .853 SPCT and an extra 1.5 in GAA behind the same UNH defense. That alone indicates Robinson deserves a lot more credit than you are giving him - for both making saves and making good saves. Right now, Id give him heavy favorite odds on winning the team MVP award...
NU has been bombing UNH over the last 12 match-ups to the tune of 4.29 goals per game. So yes, his teammates are struggling to measure up in this match-up. Meanwhile, UMass is a new team this year and they've been bombing everyone to the tune of being the third best offense in the sport. You think they're a fraud and a great match-up for UNH, but I have a feeling you'll find yourself mistaken this weekend when they outskate UNH in front of Robinson again...
It is proving true again and again that those two teams are not good match-ups for UNH (the Wildcats' six goals in five games vs. UMass/NU is another indication) and that has effected the goaltending in those games. If Robinson played at PC, UMass, Denver, UMD, etc, he's more than good enough to have top-10 numbers and garner attention for post-season honors...
So don't pretend that not winning awards in HE this year defines him. Tell me what you see that indicates he isn't a very good goalie. Give me something specific. A few difficult and outlying outings against a pair of top-8 PWR teams with elite offenses (that turn a sparkling statline into a merely very good one - top 20!) doesn't counter anything...
He's big, he's athletic, he moves side to side quickly, squares shooters very well and he makes 99.9% of the saves he's supposed to make. He's not a thief - that's all that separates him from the handful of elite NCAA goaltenders - yes, it's a BIG step to that level (and one he may never reach)...
Dont forget I told you this would happen after watching him once at CC (which I'm sure is the biggest hurdle you face in admitting how well he's played...)
First of all, as to your last point, truth be told, he's played well … but not as well as you would want us to believe. He's had a good season, not a very good one, and certainly not a great one. The "elites" get to use the word "great". The ones not too far behind (all conference back-ups) get to be the "very goods". Good is not bad, and it's not mediocre. Good is good, and good is what Robinson has given UNH to date. That's not lazy - that's fact. It's more than I expected, but it's not quite up to the "very good" narrative you're trying to create, either. He may improve to the "very good" level next season or his senior season. We'll see. I truly hope he does.
As to the whopper of 'em all … "heavy favorite odds on team MVP"?!?!?
Who are you, and what happened to the president of the "Max Gildon Fan Club"?? Nope, but totally I'd concede Robinson is odds-on for Most Improved Player (and deservedly so).Ty Taylor this season turned out to be the Mike Robinson of last season. Next season, TT gets to prove whether he is going to be the next Mike Robinson and step up to challenge the incumbent, or if he's going to become the next Adam Clark, doomed to spit the bit most every time he gets a brief look-in. But to be clear (1) I want them both to excel, and (2) if TT can't make the step up to challenge MR, then I'll be 100% in Robinson's corner - just like I was this year, as those events played out.
FWIW … Robinson posted a .003 difference in save percentage this year from his predecessor last year (Tirone), and one more shutout. That's one extra save per 300+ SOG's, or one in every 10 games. Considering the improved play of the top pairings this year, and a better frosh pairing replacing a mediocre pair of seniors (maybe slightly unfair to Marks. but otherwise spot on) … doesn't the team get any credit for that (slight) improvement? My recollection wasn't that you were touting Tirone as "very good" at this time last year. My thought at the time was that Tirone was a good D-1 goalie, and not as poor as you tried to make him out to be. Robinson making an extra save every 300 shots didn't drag UNH up to 8th. The overall team did that.
I'm pretty sure I've never used the word "fraud" to describe UMass, but I have consistently pointed out that neither the players nor the coach can point to any degree of past post-season success. I think I also estimated UNH's chances to beat UMass in the HE QF's to be 20%. Which was a better chance than I gave them against the other, more experienced top 4 HE seeds. So be it.
Anyway ... it's fun to finally have a full year's worth of performances and results to look at. I hope Robinson & Company string together 4 straight shutouts to win the HE Tourney, and four more to win the big trophy. Will it happen? I doubt it … but I'd happily lose any debate due to UNH making further steps back to where they were back in the early years of this century. The guys who make it happen - this year, or whenever - will have my undying respect and admiration, regardless of circumstances.
HockeyRef
Well-known member
Re: UNH Wildcats 2018-2019: Souza the Opportunity or Louza the Opportunity
If they do that...I'll buy YOU (and anyone else who shows up) a beer at the Gahden...come on 'Cats...make our dreams come true!!!
UNH (and Mike Robinson) must get to the Garden for me, HR, e.cat, and ATW(?) to cash in those free beers from Chuck at Libby's (i.e., 14 wins).
If they do that...I'll buy YOU (and anyone else who shows up) a beer at the Gahden...come on 'Cats...make our dreams come true!!!
Re: UNH Wildcats 2018-2019: Souza the Opportunity or Louza the Opportunity
First of all - this is not a fact, its your opinion. Its semantics. I guess your biggest quibble actually is the adjectives I've used to describe Robinson and the tiers I use to rank NCAA goaltenders more than any point I've made or Robinson's performance. If that's the case...
This is the type of argument I think is lazy. This is your JVR argument - JVR is a disappointment because Toronto prefers Tavares. The two are completely exclusive. Robinson can give UNH a terrific performance regardless of whether or not other goalies do the same for their team. It is irrelevant to the discussion.
Gildon is the best player. Robinson's steadiness, and the importance of what he's done earns him MVP from me. I should walk back the heavy favorite part, because I'd guess the team might consider Wyse neck and neck with Robinson. Again, however, the presence of other good players doesn't diminish Gildon's talent, production or impact.
Its also makes little sense to argue that failing to win a post-season award reflects poorly on a player's season. Those awards often go to players on successful teams and for goalies, in particular, often depend on that success/talent in front of them. Swap Robinson and Hawkey and the former, with PC in front of him, probably does win a post-season award this year. Winning that award, or not, changes nothing regarding his actual ability at this level and how he has played this season - it would simply reflect the team in front of him. Do you dispute that Robinson could win a post-season award if he played for PC? UMD? DU? If not than he is very good by your definition...
You fail to accurately present Mike Robinson's freshman season. Robinson started two games as a FR and posted a .911 save-percentage in those games. He had 20 minutes of poor performance as a FR against Northeastern (in a game that saw Tirone pulled prior), when the team completely melted down in front of both goaltenders. In the remaining 90% of his minutes he posted a .932 SPCT. Robinson did not watch much of the season from the bench because he spit the bit in his chances. He sat because he was a FR playing for a Head Coach who often deferred to SRs, in spite of performance, over much of his tenure...
I knew you'd bring up Tirone. I have consciously tried to avoid the comparison, because there is no point in dredging up the goal tending play of the last few seasons. Since you've broached the subject, a few points...
First of all, as I clearly stated above - I'm discussing Robinson the same way I've discussed Tirone, by utilizing available statistics, evaluating skills, watching 90% of their games played, recognizing who they're playing, the team in front of them and comparing them both to national competitors. In doing so, yes, I see Robinson as delivering a very good performance for UNH...
For someone adamant we evaluate goaltenders on their complete body of work its interesting you would raise a comparison to Tirone based on DT's senior season and not his entire career. I suppose we can do both, but it seems a little disingenuous...
Here is the reality when comparing the past two seasons - In 2017-18 UNH opponents ranked, on average, 49th in the country in scoring. This season, following the QF round, opposing offenses will represent an average goals-per-game ranking of 35th. So the numbers, that already favor Robinson, aren't as close as they seem.
While I would agree that the overall play of the team and the defense has improved this season - its more subtle than you insinuate. The large jump in defensive improvement came last season when Gildon and Maass arrived and Wyse improved as a Soph. Cameron Marks was a large part of that as well - neither Verrier or MacKinnon are impacting the game at his level yet. As for this season, one could just as easily make the argument that a more consistent and predictable netminder has absolutely impacted team's defensive play. You continue to ignore the difference between Robinson/Taylor's performance this year. While I don't think that defines or projects any lack of success for Taylor it does exhibit that this is not a team capable of shutting down opposing offenses and carrying a struggling goaltender - despite that Robinson gives them a real chance every night and is a big reason why they keep the score low most nights (that is very good by my definition and it always will be). The biggest difference this year is UNH consistently beating the bottom 30-teams in college hockey. Robinson's consistency is the largest contributor to that consistent performance.
FYI, Tirone was pulled five-times last year. Robinson has NEVER been pulled from a start...
Moving on to the two careers - Robinson is ahead of Tirone in all categories again. While its still close (largely due to over impactful outliers and a shorter career), it also includes half a season of Tirone's freshman year behind what was, undoubtedly, the best team either has ever played on. Robinson's currently sports a 2.42 GAA and a .917 SPCT - but those numbers are BADLY skewed by that 20-minute outing versus NU as a frosh. Removing that one outing bumps his career numbers up to 2.29 and .921. You don't like removing that one outing, but its is statistically overwhelming and effects the body of work far too much to ignore.
Ill give Tirone the same courtesy and remove his five-goal, 20 minute outing at UMass a few year's back. The one that almost - almost - forced him into an actual, competitive rotation. His updated career numbers would be .913 and 2.80 - essentially the same because his career is 3 times as long.
We don't need to dive deep into opinions on the talent, style, ability of the two. You know where I stand and you know exactly why I view the two very differently. Suffice it to say, Tirone is the polar opposite of Robinson. Robinson is extremely consistent and dependable, but as noted, has yet to exhibit the ability to steal a game for his team against a stronger opponent. Tirone was always capable of stealing a game, but the team never knew what they were going to get on a night to night basis. Or even a shift to shift basis. The team could play extremely well and it might not matter - Ill leave it at that. I have nothing more to say on the topic...
Agreed, but like last year - it will be the ability to control the puck and generate offense that decides whether or not they can advance...
First of all - this is not a fact, its your opinion. Its semantics. I guess your biggest quibble actually is the adjectives I've used to describe Robinson and the tiers I use to rank NCAA goaltenders more than any point I've made or Robinson's performance. If that's the case...
As to the whopper of 'em all … "heavy favorite odds on team MVP"?!?!?
This is the type of argument I think is lazy. This is your JVR argument - JVR is a disappointment because Toronto prefers Tavares. The two are completely exclusive. Robinson can give UNH a terrific performance regardless of whether or not other goalies do the same for their team. It is irrelevant to the discussion.
Gildon is the best player. Robinson's steadiness, and the importance of what he's done earns him MVP from me. I should walk back the heavy favorite part, because I'd guess the team might consider Wyse neck and neck with Robinson. Again, however, the presence of other good players doesn't diminish Gildon's talent, production or impact.
Its also makes little sense to argue that failing to win a post-season award reflects poorly on a player's season. Those awards often go to players on successful teams and for goalies, in particular, often depend on that success/talent in front of them. Swap Robinson and Hawkey and the former, with PC in front of him, probably does win a post-season award this year. Winning that award, or not, changes nothing regarding his actual ability at this level and how he has played this season - it would simply reflect the team in front of him. Do you dispute that Robinson could win a post-season award if he played for PC? UMD? DU? If not than he is very good by your definition...
You fail to accurately present Mike Robinson's freshman season. Robinson started two games as a FR and posted a .911 save-percentage in those games. He had 20 minutes of poor performance as a FR against Northeastern (in a game that saw Tirone pulled prior), when the team completely melted down in front of both goaltenders. In the remaining 90% of his minutes he posted a .932 SPCT. Robinson did not watch much of the season from the bench because he spit the bit in his chances. He sat because he was a FR playing for a Head Coach who often deferred to SRs, in spite of performance, over much of his tenure...
I knew you'd bring up Tirone. I have consciously tried to avoid the comparison, because there is no point in dredging up the goal tending play of the last few seasons. Since you've broached the subject, a few points...
First of all, as I clearly stated above - I'm discussing Robinson the same way I've discussed Tirone, by utilizing available statistics, evaluating skills, watching 90% of their games played, recognizing who they're playing, the team in front of them and comparing them both to national competitors. In doing so, yes, I see Robinson as delivering a very good performance for UNH...
For someone adamant we evaluate goaltenders on their complete body of work its interesting you would raise a comparison to Tirone based on DT's senior season and not his entire career. I suppose we can do both, but it seems a little disingenuous...
Here is the reality when comparing the past two seasons - In 2017-18 UNH opponents ranked, on average, 49th in the country in scoring. This season, following the QF round, opposing offenses will represent an average goals-per-game ranking of 35th. So the numbers, that already favor Robinson, aren't as close as they seem.
While I would agree that the overall play of the team and the defense has improved this season - its more subtle than you insinuate. The large jump in defensive improvement came last season when Gildon and Maass arrived and Wyse improved as a Soph. Cameron Marks was a large part of that as well - neither Verrier or MacKinnon are impacting the game at his level yet. As for this season, one could just as easily make the argument that a more consistent and predictable netminder has absolutely impacted team's defensive play. You continue to ignore the difference between Robinson/Taylor's performance this year. While I don't think that defines or projects any lack of success for Taylor it does exhibit that this is not a team capable of shutting down opposing offenses and carrying a struggling goaltender - despite that Robinson gives them a real chance every night and is a big reason why they keep the score low most nights (that is very good by my definition and it always will be). The biggest difference this year is UNH consistently beating the bottom 30-teams in college hockey. Robinson's consistency is the largest contributor to that consistent performance.
FYI, Tirone was pulled five-times last year. Robinson has NEVER been pulled from a start...
Moving on to the two careers - Robinson is ahead of Tirone in all categories again. While its still close (largely due to over impactful outliers and a shorter career), it also includes half a season of Tirone's freshman year behind what was, undoubtedly, the best team either has ever played on. Robinson's currently sports a 2.42 GAA and a .917 SPCT - but those numbers are BADLY skewed by that 20-minute outing versus NU as a frosh. Removing that one outing bumps his career numbers up to 2.29 and .921. You don't like removing that one outing, but its is statistically overwhelming and effects the body of work far too much to ignore.
Ill give Tirone the same courtesy and remove his five-goal, 20 minute outing at UMass a few year's back. The one that almost - almost - forced him into an actual, competitive rotation. His updated career numbers would be .913 and 2.80 - essentially the same because his career is 3 times as long.
We don't need to dive deep into opinions on the talent, style, ability of the two. You know where I stand and you know exactly why I view the two very differently. Suffice it to say, Tirone is the polar opposite of Robinson. Robinson is extremely consistent and dependable, but as noted, has yet to exhibit the ability to steal a game for his team against a stronger opponent. Tirone was always capable of stealing a game, but the team never knew what they were going to get on a night to night basis. Or even a shift to shift basis. The team could play extremely well and it might not matter - Ill leave it at that. I have nothing more to say on the topic...
Agreed, but like last year - it will be the ability to control the puck and generate offense that decides whether or not they can advance...
Last edited:
Chuck Murray
WIS & Effingwoods Hockey Almanac
Re: UNH Wildcats 2018-2019: Souza the Opportunity or Louza the Opportunity
Hoping I'm on the hook for lots of beers at the Garden. HR knows I paid off last year, and I have some catching up to do with the rest of you folks …
… quick question, though - if they don't get to 14 W's, who buys me the beer(s)? 
UNH (and Mike Robinson) must get to the Garden for me, HR, e.cat, and ATW(?) to cash in those free beers from Chuck at Libby's (i.e., 14 wins).
Hoping I'm on the hook for lots of beers at the Garden. HR knows I paid off last year, and I have some catching up to do with the rest of you folks …
… quick question, though - if they don't get to 14 W's, who buys me the beer(s)?
HockeyRef
Well-known member
Re: UNH Wildcats 2018-2019: Souza the Opportunity or Louza the Opportunity
Snively65..it was his idea in the first place bwahahahaha!
Hoping I'm on the hook for lots of beers at the Garden. HR knows I paid off last year, and I have some catching up to do with the rest of you folks …
… quick question, though - if they don't get to 14 W's, who buys me the beer(s)?
Snively65..it was his idea in the first place bwahahahaha!
Chuck Murray
WIS & Effingwoods Hockey Almanac
Re: UNH Wildcats 2018-2019: Souza the Opportunity or Louza the Opportunity
Waiting for confirmation on that one from base camp in Thornton.
Snively65..it was his idea in the first place bwahahahaha!
Waiting for confirmation on that one from base camp in Thornton.
Cookin4Fun
UNH fanatic since 1985
Re: UNH Wildcats 2018-2019: Souza the Opportunity or Louza the Opportunity
So... I occasionally like to check out what recruits are going where, etc, etc... I just noticed on CHN that Merrimack has 20, yes 20 recruits listed for next season. I realize that Borek just dumped 9 current students in addition to the seniors leaving but man that is going to be one full locker room. Thoughts anyone?
So... I occasionally like to check out what recruits are going where, etc, etc... I just noticed on CHN that Merrimack has 20, yes 20 recruits listed for next season. I realize that Borek just dumped 9 current students in addition to the seniors leaving but man that is going to be one full locker room. Thoughts anyone?
- Status