UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

[HockeyRef]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

If I'm Cleland - I got my taste of professional hockey (and played adequately if not spectacularly) and I'm heading back to Durham to wrap up my degree. Meanwhile, my agent is on the phone to land me a Coast deal (or preferably a higher paying and much more enjoyable Euro deal) for next season...

He can make better (very good - relative to the majority of his fellow graduating seniors) money in Europe and the experience will be worth a whole lot more. NHL is a real longshot for him - I'd hope he can make the best money he can, enjoy and extend his career and see the world before it all winds down...

TK is close enough he owes it to himself to grind in the AHL and push for an NHL opportunity for at least 2-3 years. Hopefully it works out. If it doesn't he'll be able to fall back on being a star on the big ice, in a top European league, playing for really good money, before he's done...

Yeah; he will no doubt play next year and Europe does sound like a good deal $$ not to mention as you say, the experience of it all. So Dan, you pulling for your Pios in the FF? They are the favorites no doubt? Looking forward to the college hockey finale this week! Our hockey banquet is 3 weeks away looking forward to see who pulls the 'C' jersey over their head too..

 

[Chuck Murray]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

If I'm Cleland - I got my taste of professional hockey (and played adequately if not spectacularly) and I'm heading back to Durham to wrap up my degree. Meanwhile, my agent is on the phone to land me a Coast deal (or preferably a higher paying and much more enjoyable Euro deal) for next season...

He can make better (very good - relative to the majority of his fellow graduating seniors) money in Europe and the experience will be worth a whole lot more. NHL is a real longshot for him - I'd hope he can make the best money he can, enjoy and extend his career and see the world before it all winds down...

TK is close enough he owes it to himself to grind in the AHL and push for an NHL opportunity for at least 2-3 years. Hopefully it works out. If it doesn't he'll be able to fall back on being a star on the big ice, in a top European league, playing for really good money, before he's done...

Can't disagree with any of that. Regarding Kelleher ... what a shame he didn't have even close to average size, he could still catch a break and fit in somewhere just right, but his chances are so much narrower just because of size alone. Only so many organizations willing to even give you a chance, and those who are willing won't be overly patient. See Haydar, Darren as someone who was a terrific D-1 player (and bigger than Kelleher), got some looks at the NHL level, but short ones that simply didn't pay off. 23 games under the likes of Barry Trotz, Bob Hartley, Don Waddell and Joe Sacco. Defense-first guys, or guys on short leashes who couldn't risk giving DH an extended run.

And it's frightening to consider that a potential future HOF level player like Martin St. Louis (still the best D-1 player I've seen in my lifetime - and that includes Paul Kariya) had basically used up the patience of Brian Sutter and the Calgary organization when he had to start from scratch with the then-beyond-pathetic Tampa Bay Lightning almost five (5) years after his UVM career finished up to finally make his NHL breakthrough. I'm not saying that Kelleher is going to be the next MSL, but you do have to wonder at times how many MSL's never quite made it because they just didn't get their break. It can be a very fickle business.

 

[Snively65]

Can't disagree with any of that. Regarding Kelleher ... what a shame he didn't have even close to average size, he could still catch a break and fit in somewhere just right, but his chances are so much narrower just because of size alone. Only so many organizations willing to even give you a chance, and those who are willing won't be overly patient. See Haydar, Darren as someone who was a terrific D-1 player (and bigger than Kelleher), got some looks at the NHL level, but short ones that simply didn't pay off. 23 games under the likes of Barry Trotz, Bob Hartley, Don Waddell and Joe Sacco. Defense-first guys, or guys on short leashes who couldn't risk giving DH an extended run.

And it's frightening to consider that a potential future HOF level player like Martin St. Louis (still the best D-1 player I've seen in my lifetime - and that includes Paul Kariya) had basically used up the patience of Brian Sutter and the Calgary organization when he had to start from scratch with the then-beyond-pathetic Tampa Bay Lightning almost five (5) years after his UVM career finished up to finally make his NHL breakthrough. I'm not saying that Kelleher is going to be the next MSL, but you do have to wonder at times how many MSL's never quite made it because they just didn't get their break. It can be a very fickle business.

And, Darren Haydar's Hobey winner center man Jason Krog also, another inch taller. But, those two had fine careers in the AHL, with several years together on the Chicago Wolves, before playing their last three and five years respectively in Europe. Another less than average height UNH alum, Eric Boguniecki, carved out a nice post-UNH career with even a couple fine NHL seasons. One could do far worse.

 

[e.cat]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

Another one bites the dust!

White/BC
Keller/BU
JFK/BU
Walman/Prov
Thompson/UCONN
Smith/UML

 

[Lemonade]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

Another one bites the dust!

White/BC
Keller/BU
McAvoy/BU
JFK/BU
Walman/Prov
Thompson/UCONN
Smith/UML

Forgot McAvoy….willing to bet that Greenway leaves BU too.

 

[HockeyRef]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

Forgot McAvoy….willing to bet that Greenway leaves BU too.

Thing is...while these are all great players that surely will be missed...what do they have coming in? Seems like a team like BU has a revolving door of talent...yes?
Imagine if we lost 3-5 players a year right now..heck, we'd have to cancel the season! It's a 'tough problem' to have (superstar recruits) but in all seriousness; it has its drawbacks too (am trying to think of some )

 

[Snively65]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

Thing is...while these are all great players that surely will be missed...what do they have coming in? Seems like a team like BU has a revolving door of talent...yes?
Imagine if we lost 3-5 players a year right now..heck, we'd have to cancel the season! It's a 'tough problem' to have (superstar recruits) but in all seriousness; it has its drawbacks too (am trying to think of some )

Are the Terriers in the Frozen Four?

 

[JB]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

That was BU's "problem" this year. Crazy talented bunch of individuals. They just did not consistently play as a team.

I think they were the most talented group I saw all year. Not the best TEAM.

 

[HockeyRef]

That was BU's "problem" this year. Crazy talented bunch of individuals. They just did not consistently play as a team.

I think they were the most talented group I saw all year. Not the best TEAM.

Well exactly and those thoughts have been echoed over at their board. It's going to be the same for any team who has great players;we have seen it obviously to a lesser degree but for us it's more of a travesty than an inconvenience (if I can use that term) since it's not like we have replaced the talent per se which is my main point. Hopefully that is changing.

And no Snively65 even with all of that talent BU isn't going to the FF but at least they competed for it. I'm sure they will be right back at it next season although I understand they will once again field a young team. Now if Greenway goes that presents abit of an interesting scenario they could be like BC this season in recovery mode. Read a tweet today where David Quinn said his toughest competition was Jerry York but now it's the Bruins!

 

[e.cat]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

Forgot McAvoy….willing to bet that Greenway leaves BU too.

Yeah. Read on the BU thread some are expecting five total to go. Not sure if BU's model is the right way to go! In fact I'm sure it's not!

 

[Snively65]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

Well exactly and those thoughts have been echoed over at their board. It's going to be the same for any team who has great players;we have seen it obviously to a lesser degree but for us it's more of a travesty than an inconvenience (if I can use that term) since it's not like we have replaced the talent per se which is my main point. Hopefully that is changing.

And no Snively65 even with all of that talent BU isn't going to the FF but at least they competed for it. I'm sure they will be right back at it next season although I understand they will once again field a young team. Now if Greenway goes that presents abit of an interesting scenario they could be like BC this season in recovery mode. Read a tweet today where David Quinn said his toughest competition was Jerry York but now it's the Bruins! ��

Bring back four-year players to UNH, like Eric Boguniecki, Jason Krog, and Darren Haydar.

 

[HockeyRef]

Bring back four-year players to UNH, like Eric Boguniecki, Jason Krog, and Darren Haydar.

Agreed!! I think tho sadly any really good player you get that's the route they are going to take....Glad we had guys like TyK amd Eric Knodle for the duration. You do make a cohesive team when you have players that stick around..glad we have the Senior class we have for that reason.

 

[Dan]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

In today's environment there is ZERO chance that any of Krog, Haydar or Boguniecki stay four seasons at UNH.

Boguniecki - who likely makes his way to UNH via the US NTDP - would never be allowed to return to Durham as a SR by the St Louis Blues. The Blues would never risk letting Boguniecki walk as a free-agent after his senior season. Especially after a dominant junior campaign in which he scored 23 goals and 52 points. They also fear the new building at UNH (with its Olympic sized sheet) will hinder his transition to pro-hockey. Better to get the undersized kid into camp and see what he's got, there is no more development for him at the NCAA level...

Krog explodes onto the radar of NHL GMs after his 128 point performance with Chilliwack of the BCHL. While questions remain about his foot-speed they'll eagerly track him as he begins his career at UNH. This time they're excited about the big ice surface - and interested to see if Krog will improve his skating and keep up with older NCAA players. After a solid FR season, Krog bursts into FA conversations following a 67-point sophomore season. With all 32 NHL programs having access to the flashy forward from Fernie, a bidding war results in Krogs departure after just two seasons...

With Krog's early departure Haydar's dynamic FR campaign is a little more subdued. After two-straight 41 point seasons the Predator brass starts to wonder about the slender, slot-cruising forward on Umile's bench. They don't pull the trigger just yet, but when the Milton native posts 41 points for the third time as a JR, Nashville jumps on the pending FA, before the Whittemore Ctr ice has even melted, and toss him into the AHL to see if he can score as easily at that level as he has in every level he's faced. He does...

* before anyone tells me the draft is only seven rounds today, let me assure you that Bogey and Haydar would simply fall 'victim' to the same fate as Krog. Potentially leaving even earlier...

---

All you can do in NCAA hockey is build a team that can get to the tournament with a chance to win. A Four-round single elimination tournament is a crap-shoot. The idea that a BU team that lost in a regional final is a failure and proof you can't win with elite talent is silly. If they score a goal in an OT period they dominated, they're still playing and everyone's trying to figure it how to replicate what they've done.

Get the best recruits you can every year - year after year - and consistently put your program in a position to win. Thats all you can do. BU has done it this way for years now. They'll do it again next year. I'm sure they'd prefer to have a better blend of age groups - but they were a bounce away from skating for a natty next weekend. It's hardly broken at BU and UNH should be so lucky...

But - if you can't win with those players, I guess we should feel fortunate UNH just simply can't compete with the big schools for their services...

 

[Dan]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

But - if you can't win with those players, I guess we should feel fortunate UNH just simply can't compete with the big schools for their services...

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-ba...d-all-gonzaga-including-mark-ever-forget-that

Speaking of which, its been a long road for Gonzaga to end up in the National Championship game. I wonder how that got started...

Dan Fitzgerald ran the place for nearly two decades as head coach and, later, athletic director. But he was more a resolute pragmatist than big dreamer. At the end of each season, he'd take his coaches out to dinner and reiterate the same refrain -- why the Bulldogs could never win their league.

"Every school has better weather. Every school has better facilities. Every school has better players in their area to recruit,'' Monson remembers the late Fitzgerald saying. "And it was hard to argue with any of those reasons.''

But Monson, along with Few and Grier, refused to follow Fitzgerald's lead. They pursued recruits that Fitzgerald believed were out of reach, insisted that Gonzaga could compete for what was then known as the Pac-10. When Fitzgerald retired and Monson took over and, along with Few and the rest of the staff, turned things around almost immediately. The Bulldogs won 24 games and went to the NIT in Monson's first year, and then launched the unforgettable 1998-99 Elite Eight run.

"He changed the thinking,'' Roth said. "We made a conscious decision to be different, to be something more than what we'd always been.''

Huh...

 

[JB]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

Get the best recruits you can every year - year after year - and consistently put your program in a position to win. Thats all you can do. BU has done it this way for years now. They'll do it again next year. I'm sure they'd prefer to have a better blend of age groups - but they were a bounce away from skating for a natty next weekend. It's hardly broken at BU.

I would love to be in BU's shoes. I do wonder about Quinn as a head coach. He is a fantastic, just plain amazing recruiter. I don't really see his groups becoming teams. Some of that would be really helped by a better blend. Some of that makes me wonder about Quinn. All problems I would absolutely love to have.

They were really fun to watch this year. Just the talent, creativity and speed dazzling to watch at times.

 

[Snively65]

I would love to be in BU's shoes. I do wonder about Quinn as a head coach. He is a fantastic, just plain amazing recruiter. I don't really see his groups becoming teams. Some of that would be really helped by a better blend. Some of that makes me wonder about Quinn. All problems I would absolutely love to have.

They were really fun to watch this year. Just the talent, creativity and speed dazzling to watch at times.

Agree completely. I try never to miss the BU game at the Whitt, and this year got to see the UNH game at Agannis also, thanks to HR with her extra ticket. We "could have" won both of those games. I am still going to miss watching TyK next season.

Speaking of two years and done, I read somewhere that Poturalski is in the 'Canes lineup against the Wild tonight.

 

[HockeyRef]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

Agree completely. I try never to miss the BU game at the Whitt, and this year got to see the UNH game at Agannis also, thanks to HR with her extra ticket. We "could have" won both of those games. I am still going to miss watching TyK next season.

Speaking of two years and done, I read somewhere that Poturalski is in the 'Canes lineup against the Wild tonight.

yeah I put that in the recruiting thread after having read that from C-H-C's twitter feed...hoping to watch and hoping it's not on NHL network because I don't have that subscription!!!

Dan, your points about competing with the best players was excellent and on point. I think everyone agrees that's where success in college hockey (to win at it at least) is found; recruit the best players you can, and not only that, have a winning VISION for those players that becomes the culture on and off the ice. It's just lip service otherwise, saying you don't like where you ended up last season and are out to change that this season...ho hum. Here's some Pots highlights in case anyone had forgotten what a great player he was for us (Chuck, don't watch )

https://www.nhl.com/hurricanes/video/prospect-profile-poturalski/t-277437094/c-44209903

 

[Darius]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

Agree completely. I try never to miss the BU game at the Whitt, and this year got to see the UNH game at Agannis also, thanks to HR with her extra ticket. We "could have" won both of those games. I am still going to miss watching TyK next season.

Speaking of two years and done, I read somewhere that Poturalski is in the 'Canes lineup against the Wild tonight.

Anything can happen that's why they play the games, but BU beats UNH 98 of 100 times. We play in top gear to stay on the ice with them, they idle along with plenty in reserve whenever they need it. Add a 2 - 3 Matt Grzelcyk/Kevin Shattenkirk types and they are odds on NC favorites.

 

[e.cat]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

I would love to be in BU's shoes. I do wonder about Quinn as a head coach. He is a fantastic, just plain amazing recruiter. I don't really see his groups becoming teams. Some of that would be really helped by a better blend. Some of that makes me wonder about Quinn. All problems I would absolutely love to have.

They were really fun to watch this year. Just the talent, creativity and speed dazzling to watch at times.

It's great having high end talent but not so great having to replace them every year. It's got to, at the very least, be disruptive to team chemistry not to mention difficult on the coaching staff. Quinn's head must be spinning!

 

[E.J. Smith]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

I don't have the time now, but I'd be interested in seeing how many of his assists came on the PP playing with UNHs loaded first unit. Many of which were simply 15-foot, easy passes to Kelleher or McNicholas on the wings (What could that PP have been if he was a true QB, capable of getting hard shots through to the net)...

Sorry, I agree with most of what you're saying but I'm a lunatic about passing. The single most underrated and underappreciated skill in hockey.

So much can go "wrong" with a simple 15 foot pass to keep it from ending up in the back of the net. He holds it just a beat too long and the D and goalie slide over, it's in the guys skates a little or just a bit too far in front of him, it's not smooth, flat, and hard - it rolls a little or gets up on edger - or it's too hard or too soft so the receiver has to fight with it instead of shooting it.

I see that pass eph'd up way more often than I see it done right even at the D1 level.

I just never take good passing for granted.