UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

[Dan]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

Miller is nowhere near Fregona in terms of potential impact or offensive ability. Miller never scored more than 20 points or eight goals in his entire junior hockey career and the idea that he would suddenly turn into a sniper at the NCAA level was ludicrous.

He scored 3 goals and 2 assists in his first six career games and has continued to ride that wave to this day. Since then he has one goal and 10 assists for just 11 points in 64 games. And that's who he is.

He hustles. He's better than Cefalu and ahead of Sacco for now - but he's not in the line up on a top HE team. He's not close to Fortney or Rogers as a checking line forward either. He's quick, but he's not a strong defender and he can't carry or possess the puck. He's a chaser.

Fregona on the other hand brings skill and flair - he just was not strong enough or developed enough to make an impact this season. He did come on strong with some pretty rushes at the end of the year and I think he'll continue to grow going forward.

He was Foegele's equal at St Andrews and put up 24 goals and just about a PPG in the BCHL, last season.

Fregona, Blackburn, Grasso and BVR are a nice group. They question is how long will it take them to get to consistent top-six HE performances. They need to make that jump next season, along with encore performances from Salvaggio and McNicholas and notable improvements from some or all of the other upper class forwards for UNH to be successful/consistent offensively next season...

When they're JRs and SRs who will support their production? There are no blue chip kids coming next season. Kelleher should be solid. MacAdams is a less skilled, less penalty prone Eiserman/third-line type. Cippolone will have to fight just to make the line-up.

By the time Wazny and Crookshank arrive and prove ready to truly contribute - this solid FR class will be gone.

So UNH needs to get some late pick ups and fill in some future forward classes or they're in for more unbalanced/limited forward groups for the foreseeable future...

 

[Snively65]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

I'm working on a post where I make the case that Danny Tirone out performed all other goaltenders in NCAA Division 1 hockey this past season. So then we can all agree that the Hobey Hat Trick should have been Cleland, Kelleher and Trione. My following post will outline a plan for the SID's office at UNH to feature Bob Dole - whose unsuccessful campaign as the Republican standard bearer took place during Dick Umile's 9th season as UNH head coach - speaking his famous "Where is the Outrage" line in a video critical of the flawed method of picking the Hobey winner...

Even if you can make the case that DT was worthy to be a Hobey candidate this past season, Felger, I still found that he was hard to watch, and am lucky that I did not suffer a heart attack in the process.

Also, the bu off-season thread is cleaning our clock on their page 3; tough competition!

 

[Felger]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

Even if you can make the case that DT was worthy to be a Hobey candidate this past season, Felger, I still found that he was hard to watch, and am lucky that I did not suffer a heart attack in the process.

Well, when the puck was in the opponents' zone you didn't have to watch Tirone. By the same token when the puck was in the UNH zone you didn't have to worry about watching Kelleher, as he was MIA. So I totally understand why you enjoyed watching Cleland, since he actually played at both ends of the ice.

 

[Chuck Murray]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

I'm working on a post where I make the case that Danny Tirone out performed all other goaltenders in NCAA Division 1 hockey this past season. So then we can all agree that the Hobey Hat Trick should have been Cleland, Kelleher and Trione. My following post will outline a plan for the SID's office at UNH to feature Bob Dole - whose unsuccessful campaign as the Republican standard bearer took place during Dick Umile's 9th season as UNH head coach - speaking his famous "Where is the Outrage" line in a video critical of the flawed method of picking the Hobey winner...

OK you've officially got my attention, Felgie. I'm not sure even I would have nominated Tirone for anything other than Best NH Based D-1 Goalie, or maybe HE Honorable Mention as a stretch. And I'm a fan. Let 'er rip, mon ami.

 

[Chuck Murray]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

You should check out the first page of the new lower case titled bu post-season thread, Chuck, as it is hilarious. May remind you of the good old days on this forum, about which I have only heard second hand.

Read it just now - well, that's 5 minutes of my life I'll never get back. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

 

[Snively65]

OK you've officially got my attention, Felgie. I'm not sure even I would have nominated Tirone for anything other than Best NH Based D-1 Goalie, or maybe HE Honorable Mention as a stretch. And I'm a fan. Let 'er rip, mon ami.

DT was sixth in minutes played and tied with nine others for 22nd in shut outs with three; outside the top 47 in GAA and outside the top 35 in SV%. But, DU certainly would not be within striking distance of the NRN without DT this past season, right? Right?

 

[HockeyRef]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

DT was sixth in minutes played and tied with nine others for 22nd in shut outs with three; outside the top 47 in GAA and outside the top 35 in SV%. But, DU certainly would not be within striking distance of the NRN without DT this past season, right? Right?

Absolutely correct. With the exception of the UML blowouts (and games where he allowed b2b goals) he kept us in most games and winning the Merrimack series was all on him with what, 44 saves a game? His style is highly erratic of course; the D never really knows where the rebounds are gonna go making it harder to get the puck out of the zone but he has been the saving grace back there.

 

[Felger]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

OK you've officially got my attention, Felgie. I'm not sure even I would have nominated Tirone for anything other than Best NH Based D-1 Goalie, or maybe HE Honorable Mention as a stretch. And I'm a fan. Let 'er rip, mon ami.

Its really pretty simple Chuck. Danny Tirone plays for UNH. Ergo, he must be good, must be special. Its all about the laundry. To wit: never thought I would see the words "saving grace" in a post about Tirone.

 

[HockeyRef]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

Its really pretty simple Chuck. Danny Tirone plays for UNH. Ergo, he must be good, must be special. Its all about the laundry. To wit: never thought I would see the words "saving grace" in a post about Tirone.

Stay around something long enough, and you never know WHAT you'll read! Hope that line shows up in your story...

 

[Snively65]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

Well, when the puck was in the opponents' zone you didn't have to watch Tirone. By the same token when the puck was in the UNH zone you didn't have to worry about watching Kelleher, as he was MIA. So I totally understand why you enjoyed watching Cleland, since he actually played at both ends of the ice.

What? That is simply crazy talk. TyK was the only player on the team other than Cleland who could skate the puck out of the UNH defensive zone. Whenever Cleland was not on the ice, the D tandems would hold the puck for TyK to pick up behind the net and skate it out, in just about every game that I watched the entire season. So, the inability to carry the puck out of the defensive zone this upcoming season, along with Tirone's unpredictability in net, should be DU's biggest concern for reaching the NRN.

 

[Darius]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

Read it just now - well, that's 5 minutes of my life I'll never get back. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

Check their old thread 3 - 4 days ago for the humor. Also amusing, if not look looking at the thread title, one would think the topic was UMA, not BU hockey. Poor them.

 

[HockeyRef]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

What? That is simply crazy talk. TyK was the only player on the team other than Cleland who could skate the puck out of the UNH defensive zone. Whenever Cleland was not on the ice, the D tandems would hold the puck for TyK to pick up behind the net and skate it out, in just about every game that I watched the entire season. So, the inability to carry the puck out of the defensive zone this upcoming season, along with Tirone's unpredictability in net, should be DU's biggest concern for reaching the NRN.

It IS his (DU that is) biggest issue period! Scoring goals isn't/probably won't be/ the concern; and you can see the newest recruiting efforts are seeking to work on that problem. I've been watching a couple of games TyK has been in with his new digs; you better believe they have him back there and he's managed to break up a few plays and carry the puck forward. I've seen him do that on a number of occasions as well as a 'Cat. D isn't his strongest suit of course, but he can skate it out of the zone. What limits him the most of course is his overall size; it's all they talk about when he's on the ice but so far he's holding his own. We'll miss him next season more so than most forwards that we've had just given the reliance on him the past 2 seasons especially..

 

[Dan]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

Kelleher was special. Cleland was good. Tirone is what a baseball stat-head would call replacement-level...

 

[Snively65]

Kelleher was special. Cleland was good. Tirone is what a baseball stat-head would call replacement-level...

Cleland only ranks a "good"? He led all D-men in scoring until Fox (Harvard) moved ahead and Butcher tied him in post-season. And, he constantly bailed out Tirone's juicy rebounds, besides being one of only two UNH players who could skate the puck out of their own zone this past season. Missed just one game in four seasons, something few UNH D-men have accomplished the past decade, including several who left town early. Speaking of which, TvR gave up first goal by Bs in first period this afternoon.

 

[Dan]

Cleland only ranks a "good"? He led all D-men in scoring until Fox (Harvard) moved ahead and Butcher tied him in post-season. And, he constantly bailed out Tirone's juicy rebounds, besides being one of only two UNH players who could skate the puck out of their own zone this past season. Missed just one game in four seasons, something few UNH D-men have accomplished the past decade, including several who left town early. Speaking of which, TvR gave up first goal by Bs in first period this afternoon.

Well based on my unscientific - and just now invented - ranking system; Good is pretty good. Very good (reserved for the very good) and special (elite of elite) are not every day accomplishments...

Special
Very Good
Good
Above Average
Average
Replacement-Level

Cleland is good. His toughness, compete-level and effort just might raise him above good in the direction of almost approaching very good. In a vacuum his on-ice production was very impressive. But, I do think his legend grows by playing on a D corp that has otherwise hovered around average to replacement over the course of his upperclass career.

I don't have the time now, but I'd be interested in seeing how many of his assists came on the PP playing with UNHs loaded first unit. Many of which were simply 15-foot, easy passes to Kelleher or McNicholas on the wings (What could that PP have been if he was a true QB, capable of getting hard shots through to the net)...

If I'm building an NCAA tournament team - Cleland is a #3 for me, anchoring a solid and very dependable second pairing. He's not the #1 he was forced to be at UNH. Though he did handle the role as admirably as possible.

I think he's more than deserving of any accolades he receives - and would have been a fine selection to the HE second or third team for what he did this season. But he accomplished much of what he did punching above his weight class out of necessity.

I'm not a huge fan of the push Butcher made towards the Hobey Hat Trick - because I think it is arguable he was not even the third best player on his team and DU gets to the FF just fine with a D of very goods in Hammond and Davies and goods in Plant, Hillman and Van Voorhees, plus average Fehr. Not to mention their cache of defensive minded forwards and two special goalies. But Butcher IS special and a big reason why they have a chance to win it all.

He's definitely well ahead of Cleland. I love Cleland - but he's straight to the Coast league for a reason...

 

[Darius]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

If I'm building an NCAA tournament team - Cleland is a #3 for me, anchoring a solid and very dependable second pairing. He's not the #1 he was forced to be at UNH. Though he did handle the role as admirably as possible.

I love Cleland - but he's straight to the Coast league for a reason...

Yup.

 

[HockeyRef]

Well based on my unscientific - and just now invented - ranking system; Good is pretty good. Very good (reserved for the very good) and special (elite of elite) are not every day accomplishments...

Special
Very Good
Good
Above Average
Average
Replacement-Level

Cleland is good. His toughness, compete-level and effort just might raise him above good in the direction of almost approaching very good. In a vacuum his on-ice production was very impressive. But, I do think his legend grows by playing on a D corp that has otherwise hovered around average to replacement over the course of his upperclass career.

I don't have the time now, but I'd be interested in seeing how many of his assists came on the PP playing with UNHs loaded first unit. Many of which were simply 15-foot, easy passes to Kelleher or McNicholas on the wings (What could that PP have been if he was a true QB, capable of getting hard shots through to the net)...

If I'm building an NCAA tournament team - Cleland is a #3 for me, anchoring a solid and very dependable second pairing. He's not the #1 he was forced to be at UNH. Though he did handle the role as admirably as possible.

I think he's more than deserving of any accolades he receives - and would have been a fine selection to the HE second or third team for what he did this season. But he accomplished much of what he did punching above his weight class out of necessity.

I'm not a huge fan of the push Butcher made towards the Hobey Hat Trick - because I think it is arguable he was not even the third best player on his team and DU gets to the FF just fine with a D of very goods in Hammond and Davies and goods in Plant, Hillman and Van Voorhees, plus average Fehr. Not to mention their cache of defensive minded forwards and two special goalies. But Butcher IS special and a big reason why they have a chance to win it all.

He's definitely well ahead of Cleland. I love Cleland - but he's straight to the Coast league for a reason...

Speaking of Cleland has he been picked up by another team yet?

 

[Chuck Murray]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

Speaking of Cleland has he been picked up by another team yet?

Not that I'm aware of. It's late in the 'Coast season, so playoff-bound teams are looking to stabilize and solidify their rosters (at least by ECHL standards) for the postseason. If you look at any Coast team's season-long roster, the amount of player traffic is staggering. Players in and out all of the time. It's just the way business is done in the Coast (even more so in lower leagues, like the one the previous year's captain now plays in). Sometimes it's here today, gone later today.

I used to work with the uncle of a former UNH winger who was a solid 4 year player and played on some great teams, but was never individually outstanding. He played briefly in the Coast, and also in another lower (now defunct) league, but was also on call for emergency weekend duty with 2-3 different teams around the New England/Northeast for a few years after he took on a full-time job in the real world. One of those teams was Bridgeport (AHL), which (at least to me) stood out because it was a level beyond what you might ordinarily think he was capable of playing at. Sometimes he would be on call for practices, and sometimes he would be on call for emergency game duty. He was (loosely) contracted to the team independently - not with the NHL club they served as an affiliate for (Islanders at the time, I believe?).

The world of minor league hockey is a world unto itself. It's a rarity to see a kid work his way out of the 'Coast to the NHL (Boguniecki did a brief tour in Dayton, and CDS is trying to do the same, although he's far more likely to stay put as the AHL back-up he seems to have become). Everyone is chasing the dream, and some are willing to chase it longer and harder than others. In all likelihood, Cleland will get another shot in the Coast next season (if he wants?), see how things work out, and eventually make the decision that many former UNH'ers have made before him - i.e. extend your pro career in the European leagues, or give up the dream and get a full-time job in the real world.

Cleland can probably make a decent living at hockey for a few years somewhere, and may even eventually get a shot at the AHL level ... but his window of opportunity (as an undrafted, undersized player) was always going to be narrow, and he has already experienced the joys and sorrows of a 5 game trial in the hockey hotbed of Wheeling WV. Sometimes that's all it takes to convince kids that their efforts are best spent off the ice ... and sometimes it drives them to learn from the experience, and push on to the next on-ice opportunity. Whatever he does, I wish Matias nothing but the best.

 

[HockeyRef]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

Not that I'm aware of. It's late in the 'Coast season, so playoff-bound teams are looking to stabilize and solidify their rosters (at least by ECHL standards) for the postseason. If you look at any Coast team's season-long roster, the amount of player traffic is staggering. Players in and out all of the time. It's just the way business is done in the Coast (even more so in lower leagues, like the one the previous year's captain now plays in). Sometimes it's here today, gone later today.

I used to work with the uncle of a former UNH winger who was a solid 4 year player and played on some great teams, but was never individually outstanding. He played briefly in the Coast, and also in another lower (now defunct) league, but was also on call for emergency weekend duty with 2-3 different teams around the New England/Northeast for a few years after he took on a full-time job in the real world. One of those teams was Bridgeport (AHL), which (at least to me) stood out because it was a level beyond what you might ordinarily think he was capable of playing at. Sometimes he would be on call for practices, and sometimes he would be on call for emergency game duty. He was (loosely) contracted to the team independently - not with the NHL club they served as an affiliate for (Islanders at the time, I believe?).

The world of minor league hockey is a world unto itself. It's a rarity to see a kid work his way out of the 'Coast to the NHL (Boguniecki did a brief tour in Dayton, and CDS is trying to do the same, although he's far more likely to stay put as the AHL back-up he seems to have become). Everyone is chasing the dream, and some are willing to chase it longer and harder than others. In all likelihood, Cleland will get another shot in the Coast next season (if he wants?), see how things work out, and eventually make the decision that many former UNH'ers have made before him - i.e. extend your pro career in the European leagues, or give up the dream and get a full-time job in the real world.

Cleland can probably make a decent living at hockey for a few years somewhere, and may even eventually get a shot at the AHL level ... but his window of opportunity (as an undrafted, undersized player) was always going to be narrow, and he has already experienced the joys and sorrows of a 5 game trial in the hockey hotbed of Wheeling WV. Sometimes that's all it takes to convince kids that their efforts are best spent off the ice ... and sometimes it drives them to learn from the experience, and push on to the next on-ice opportunity. Whatever he does, I wish Matias nothing but the best.

Those are good points Chuck; kind of like last year when Smith and Quast got a brief stint with the Monarchs (think Quast lasted longer than Smith and Quast spent the winter playing hockey in Scotland) Kevin Goumas has been in Sweden this winter and his team Mori IK (think that's what it is) just won their league allowing them to move up to a Premier league (if I have that right) He's the second leading scorer for them; he's been in and out of the AHL and the Coast now here. Not sure of his plans for next season. Today am watching UML's CJ Smith playing in his NHL debut with the Sabres. So it's interesting to see how these players pan out, find their way, or leave hockey all together. I guess as long as they are playing, and happy.

Just read on twitter (not related one bit) that Michigan's Red B could be back for one more year...but it does apply I guess to our saga. Looking forward to the FF this week! Go 'Crimson!!

ps speaking of sagas just read Mike Vech just got signed by the Flyers; joins his teammate from the '14 NC team Ghost. (why didn't WE get Phil DeSimone's brother Nick by the way?)

 

[Dan]

Speaking of Cleland has he been picked up by another team yet?

If I'm Cleland - I got my taste of professional hockey (and played adequately if not spectacularly) and I'm heading back to Durham to wrap up my degree. Meanwhile, my agent is on the phone to land me a Coast deal (or preferably a higher paying and much more enjoyable Euro deal) for next season...

He can make better (very good - relative to the majority of his fellow graduating seniors) money in Europe and the experience will be worth a whole lot more. NHL is a real longshot for him - I'd hope he can make the best money he can, enjoy and extend his career and see the world before it all winds down...

TK is close enough he owes it to himself to grind in the AHL and push for an NHL opportunity for at least 2-3 years. Hopefully it works out. If it doesn't he'll be able to fall back on being a star on the big ice, in a top European league, playing for really good money, before he's done...