UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

[HockeyRef]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

Dan, got a q for you...if UML and DU squared off somewhere in the upcoming NCAA's....who would win? I am hoping I get to see Denver play out here in Manch but highly doubt it...looking forward to seeing what the pairings are tomorrow...

 

[Dan]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

Well the question was what should/could UNH do - not what they will do. You're probably right. As a by product of the crappy AD culture they'll probably sit on their hands, scrap together whatever revenue they can and then pout to each other about how hard they have it.

See Umile's comments - college hockey was just as competitive early in his tenure as it is now. It's just that different teams are excelling. UNH and ME stink and UML and PC are good. Just another excuse to rationalize his production (or lack there of)...

As for DU and UML? Who knows - what a great game that would be. DU has more high end talent I guess. I wasn't sure they'd live up to their billing as they just didn't score early in the year, but Montgomery commented a couple weeks ago that they're the highest scoring team in the country since the new year. In seven games - id take DU in six or seven. In a one off - up for grabs.

Unfortunately, I'm not sure that even with a second loss tonight DU can fall out of the west top two and land in the East.

 

[Chuck Murray]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

As I said: <b style="color: red"><i>As long as the advertising revenue rolls in, the powers that be couldn't care less</i></b>

They won't...nobody does. Eventually it will all implode on them. It will be like the original <u>Rollerball</u> movie with James Caan ("Jonathan! Jonathan! Jonathan!") The "attendees" will be corporate stooges (even the teams were named after corporations, not cities or schools) and everyone will just watch on TV (or their laptops).

It's like everything else in the human race. They won't DO anything until it's too late...

For what it's worth ... I'm a HUGE fan of the original Rollerball movie. WIS Productions took out a long-term option on the concept circa 2000, and it's been in pre-production since. It's never quite fit though.

So, let's see ... the story is set in 2018. ... starring a protagonist who has been around a dangerous and highly competitive sport for years, nearing the end of a legendary career ... hmm ... being pressured to retire against his will, which he's very reluctant to do ... hmmm ... with a significant librarian cameo role ... hmmmm ... and a pompous villain figure straight out of Central Casting, who remains largely in the shadows, but tries to keep the protagonist under his thumb ... hmmmmm ... and ratchets up the pressure step by step to force the protagonist to relent and do as he has been told ... hmmmmmm ... but the emotional protagonist stubbornly refuses to give in, and ultimately in refusing to see the futility of his continuing, puts his entire team/program in the most serious jeopardy imaginable ... hmmmmmmm.

Too bad that instead of the dynamic characters of Jonathan E. and Bartholomew to lead the saga ... we have the far less inspiring personas of Coach Umile and BS35+5. So close, yet so far ... or is it?



As they say in the entertainment business ... if it won't work as pure drama, then there's always satire.

Stay tuned for the offseason.

 

[Greg Ambrose]

I don't think I need to "apologize" for Kullen. I do have admiration for him, mostly on the facts. Your anecdote is off. He didn't keep his job only after hiring Coady: he hired Coady when he got the job, so Coady was not forced on him as a condition for keeping his job. Assuming you put recruiting on him, not Holt's longtime assistant Dave O'Connor, there are no complaints about 1977-84 period, where UNH made the NCAAs as late as 83. Even 83, with Richmond, Douris and Mike Golden was good, though Douris left after 2, and Golden flunked out. 84 got Steve Leach and Rossetti, big gets, again with Leach leaving after 2 years. But the depth behind them really dropped off, and the recruited defensemen were awful. 85 and 86 were beyond horrible, perhaps the familiar "hard to recruit for an aged head coach."

Once he and Coady took over, being the new era of UNH hockey was very appealing to recruits. That first class of 87 was killer and got the defense righted with Dean, McIntyre and Plavsic (and even better because Amodeo would have been in 87, but couldn't get past admissions). I find it hard to believe the 1987 retirement of O'Connor and the hiring of Wilson to replace him were forced on him). He, Coady and Wilson followed with another outstanding 88 class (Mitrovic joined Amodeo, Morrow).

Not only are the names impressive, but the team went from 8 wins, to 7 during the season Kullen didn't coach, to 12, 17 and 22 wins (the first under Umile). This clearly shows the team was on a tremendous rebuild under Kullen, with his first two recruiting classes getting 22 and 22 win seasons at the end of their 4 years.

Not going to argue with you here since, frankly, no one gives a care about stuff that happened 35 years ago. However Bob Kullen was the number one recruiter from 1980 on. He was acknowledged by everyone to be Charlie's successor. Usimg the excuse that he was recruiting for an old man is, frankly, pathetic. The fact is that, beyond a few good gets, half of whom left early, Kullen ran the program into the ground. Garnering 19 wins in 3 years, 31 over four, in an expanded conference schedule is the only proof needed. You may have a hard time believing he was called on the carpet but I had it on good authority from two guys who were very involved (and, unfortunately, no longer with us) that it was, in fact the case.. Leave it at that.

 

[Felger]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

Someone on another thread said last night's semi-finals at the Garden were the LOWEST attendance numbers since 2006 (I didn't check, but having been to many of them, I find it hard to believe the "announced" number of circa 10,000 - and yes, I know they count TOTAL for both games and people come and go - but not a heck of a lot of people "came" after that first game). That SHOULD raise a red flag, but it won't. As long as the advertising revenue rolls in, the powers that be couldn't care less. Pretty soon it will be like the original "Rollerball" movie...where fans stayed home and the spectators consisted of corporate stooges (in fact, the teams represented corporations, not cities or schools).

This should come as no surprise to anybody, least of which any body in the league office. Last fall Joey B. was on between periods of a Bruins' game, pimping for this year's Frozen Fenway. He actually admitted that in the years the league hosts FF that it sees a decline in attendance at the HE Championships. But that doesn't seem to deter them, as long as there are fannies in the seats in January. I'm proud to admit that I have never attended the Frozen Farce, and just wish more fans would do the same, and end that travesty for good.

 

[chickod]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

just wish more fans would do the same, and end that travesty for good.

But see, that's my POINT!!!!! It doesn't matter if you stay home. It WON'T end it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Do you see all the ancillary advertising on boards, placards, scoreboards, walls, grass, etc? Heck, you can hardly see the game on your TV screen anymore with all the graphics, logos and stuff plastered all over the place. And look at all of the other "stuff" that it has spurned: free public skating, charity games, pickup games, high school games. THEY DON'T CARE IF YOU GO!!!!!! As long as some company will pay them money they will keep doing it. They get WAY MORE revenue from advertising than they do from fans in the stands.

This is what is frustrating. We live in enough of a virtual reality world anyway. The "atmosphere" at games is the only semblance of "life" that seems to be left. What I would love to find out from some of the players (if they can get their heads out of the "I can't to get to the NHL" mode for two seconds) is how they feel about playing in half-empty arenas with a dead atmosphere. Because, at least to me, nothing fired me up more than the energy of a big, enthusiastic crowd. If that can't get you going, then you're not alive. Some of these games feel like practice or pick-up games. Pretty soon we can just feed all the players' stats into a computer and they can stay in their dorms (oh, excuse me, "luxury suites") and simulate the game on their laptops. In fact, that would make even MORE money for the schools. They can tear down the arena and put up more dorms. Why have live games with people when you can just simulate it in virtual reality? Nobody goes anyway, so just watch it at home.

 

[HockeyRef]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

Normie's cranking up the buzz saw... "Lowell will runaway with this game " Been there done that! Enjoyed him giving UNH props at the end of the game with Billy Jaffe but doubt that was anything he really wanted to talk about!!

 

[JB]

Not going to argue with you here since, frankly, no one gives a care about stuff that happened 35 years ago. However Bob Kullen was the number one recruiter from 1980 on. He was acknowledged by everyone to be Charlie's successor. Usimg the excuse that he was recruiting for an old man is, frankly, pathetic. The fact is that, beyond a few good gets, half of whom left early, Kullen ran the program into the ground. Garnering 19 wins in 3 years, 31 over four, in an expanded conference schedule is the only proof needed. You may have a hard time believing he was called on the carpet but I had it on good authority from two guys who were very involved (and, unfortunately, no longer with us) that it was, in fact the case.. Leave it at that.

So you give Sean Coady a ton of credit to UNHs turn around in the early 90s. He would have been the one getting Umile's early groceries.

 

[zoofer]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

Thanks to Dan and Chickod for discussing the positives that are needed......so many issues that I totally agree with, so let me share with you a few thoughts.....I've been around UNH since 1973....when I was on the team, if you weren't "a scorer", you were given the new Titan stick, as they lasted longer than the Sherwood or wooden shafted stick:in other words the budget was felt hands on! Imagine being told to use a whippy stick when you're on the point trying to put all you've got in a slap shot! On this subject alone, UNH has never been able to escape....$$$$ is always an issue, everywhere, every sport, everyday! To be fair to UNH, the State House is their worst enemy!( For 40 years, I have asked friends in Concord, why does every other state have university supporting license plates but not UNH?) A simple way to bring in some cash....not the big money answer but an example of how it is.....
To Dan's point on support of the program, when they made the effort to dress up the Whitt a few years ago, they posted the 2 hockey program's history......at the time, I mentioned that the men's timeline DID NOT mention our first foray to the NCAAs in 1977!! Nor was the 79 and 82 trips mentioned......think about this a minute.....you're posting the program's history! Maybe attaining one of the goals every program sets for itself might be important! And to be honest, I don't know if it's ever been fixed.....it hadn't been up to 2 years ago.....
I could not agree with chickod more when he points out fans in the seats vs corporate sales......way back before the corporate explosion into college sports, every year at Snively, the number of seats available to the students, who had bought their athletic pass, decreased because as the team became more popular, UNH obviously made more money with outside tix sales vs giving them to the students......unfortunately it is a given today that unless you have a lot of discretionary cash, or corporate connections, you aren't going to go to a live sporting event......unless of course you support the female side of every sport offered! Maybe if the "Rollerball" future, is correct, the lonely masses will only have online and cable outlets to enjoy their favorite teams.....
Back to UNH specifically, I'm not sure what can be done to pull out of their rut.....if you know how much money you'll have in your budget every year, and know your fixed costs, where do you turn to change the environment? How do you maintain enthusiasm and "I believe in UNH"? Is it only thru social media that the new audience can be attained?
I'll leave you with this......I was asked to be on the 40th Reunion Committee this year, and accepted.....along with a few other years (25,50,60), the reunions will be held in June.....now I admit I'm a traditionalist....despite a few benefits for this, I still hold that reunions need football and hockey games to attend, frats and sororitys to visit with, and current students to mingle with.....when I contacted a variety of classmates, that was the first question I was asked.....my point is that here is another avenue for revenues and to expand enthusiasm to the Alumni.....why change the format that will get you the most bang for your buck? To be fair, I am told that most universities are making this change, so what do I know......thanks again for the discussion!

 

[Darius]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

...To make up for this loss of revenue, they should see more concession sales. They can sell 8 dollar beers for a $7.75 profit. Denver makes around 75-100,000 dollars a weekend in liquor sales. Maybe donors will increase of they feel like the U actual gives a ****. And in the long run it should benefit - a winning team at least - and sell outs might return...

I love going to Tsongas, watching warm ups while drinking a beer, having another during the game. I also enjoy speaking with UML fans. The beer does, however, change the vibe inside the arena, perhaps attracting certain folks who might not otherwise attend. On occasion inappropriate comments from UML fans, in a predominantly UML section, with small UML children fans near by makes me wonder if Whitt-beer is a price we want to pay for increased revenue.

 

[HockeyRef]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

I love going to Tsongas, watching warm ups while drinking a beer, having another during the game. I also enjoy speaking with UML fans. The beer does, however, change the vibe inside the arena, perhaps attracting certain folks who might not otherwise attend. On occasion inappropriate comments from UML fans, in a predominantly UML section, with small UML children fans near by makes me wonder if Whitt-beer is a price we want to pay for increased revenue.

This came up (alcohol at the 'Whitt which you can purchase if you have those special tix that get you up in the 'sky box lounge') on a UNH hockey facebook page and the poster felt that it wouldn't be good for the 'Whitt to have beer from just what you are saying. I don't believe you can sell alcohol in the state of NH for a college sporting event? I don't know the laws. Anyway...hear what you are saying...wonder what the UML fans are going to do next Saturday in the "dry" arena at SNUH! Just havin' some fun. (as if I have to ask ) Might I suggest Murphy's Tap Room right across the street but I don't think they open 'till 11:00 am..believe you are playing at high noon?

 

[Dan]

I love going to Tsongas, watching warm ups while drinking a beer, having another during the game. I also enjoy speaking with UML fans. The beer does, however, change the vibe inside the arena, perhaps attracting certain folks who might not otherwise attend. On occasion inappropriate comments from UML fans, in a predominantly UML section, with small UML children fans near by makes me wonder if Whitt-beer is a price we want to pay for increased revenue.

Well, in my opinion, that would depend more on the fan base than the alcohol. Who knows how it would play out at UNH, but In attending nearly every DU home game the last two years - and bouncing around the entire arena for seating - I haven't seen or heard of ONE alcohol related issue. The only result of beer sales, at Magness at least, is a whole lot of easy revenue...

 

[Dan]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

As far as the 'butts in the seats' versus advertising sales etc...

The university needs to decide if they feel an obligation to support their programs by driving attendance or just seeking profit. HE is not under any responsibility to create an atmosphere, let alone and advantageous one, for the teams that participate. They are the neutral conference office.

If UNH wants to go corporate, sterile, ad revenue, no free tickets, that's their decision. But, it's a conscious one that does no favors for their programs on-ice and recruiting performances. I see that decision as counter productive to performance and total long term revenue - and I see it easily.

So while chickod makes fair points about the state of sports attendance - it's not something UNH is railroaded into. They could choose atmosphere and help UNH hockey on and off the ice as a result. Long term, they'd likely see more money. So I no one will convince me choosing the status quo would be anything but laziness and/or ignorant short-sightedness...

And if UNH athletics feels understaffed and funded, they can get in line with nearly every athletic program in the country (including so many of the most successful hockey programs). Do your jobs better, get creative and maximize the budget you do have. Just like the athletes themselves - it's attitude and effort. Right now UNH has a poor (woe is us) attitude and is lacking in extra effort. There is a critical reason some schools win and others lose and it is attitude, effort and expectation level...

DU is currently #1 in hockey and men's lacrosse. They reached the final four in men's soccer. The finished third in skiing after winning last year. Women's soccer, gymnastics and lacrosse are top-25 (top-15?) programs. Volleyball won both regular season and tournament conf titles. They are a beast of an AD because they make no excuses, do what it takes, maximize what they have and demand success from the top down. Their pockets are far from unlimited - especially considering who they compete with and beat on a regular basis...

One AD demands excellence and another settles. A new AD along with a new coach would do wonders for UNH Hockey...

 

[Dan]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

Another thing DU does to make money - is rent space on their concourse during games. There are about 15-20 companies every game giving out free samples and begging for business. Who knows how much DU makes doing this? 10-20k per night? More? Get creative...

Who knows how much WhichWich pays DU just to give me a free sandwich when a fan 'wins' the shuffle puck each game. If you're going to go corporate, SELL OUT!

UNH may lean corporate right now, but let's not pretend they do a good job maximizing profit in this area either...

 

[HockeyRef]

Another thing DU does to make money - is rent space on their concourse during games. There are about 15-20 companies every game giving out free samples and begging for business. Who knows how much DU makes doing this? 10-20k per night? More? Get creative...

Who knows how much WhichWich pays DU just to give me a free sandwich when a fan 'wins' the shuffle puck each game. If you're going to go corporate, SELL OUT!

UNH may lean corporate right now, but let's not pretend they do a good job maximizing profit in this area either...

All fair points Dan. Am wondering what happened to the blimp that flew around dropping stuff and as silly as it was that dancing acorn or whatever the heck it was?!? Mega lame examples I know. Corporate at UNH is virtually unnoticed by this fan unless we get a "Unitil Power Play". Oh, and the parking spots season tix holders can't/don't get. Status quo rules the day..Isn't it fun to talk about this stuff while everyone else gets to talk about tournament brackets? (Said no UNH hockey fan ever)

 

[Snively65]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

Three things:

1. My understanding is that many of those empty reserved seats are bought and paid for by corporate donors. It is simply that no one in those organizations is interested in attending.

2. I believe that students already can attend for free in the non-reserved seating at the UNH band end of the arena, but again many of those seats remain empty because students have other interests now.

3. I think that beer sales at the Whitt are limited by the State to only the lounge area outside the luxury boxes over the band end of the arena, with the $8 beers no doubt generating a tidy profit. For the first time, this season alcohol also could be consumed inside the luxury boxes; previously the State did not allow alcohol in the boxes, as they were open to arena below. So, the U is limited in the sale of alcohol by the State.

 

[Greg Ambrose]

So you give Sean Coady a ton of credit to UNHs turn around in the early 90s. He would have been the one getting Umile's early groceries.

Sean was an aggressive guy. A bit over the top, a bit in polished, but effective.

 

[zoofer]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

Not sure what the situation is on other campuses but UNH does not own the Whitt....a state bond paid for it......it is leased out to a corporation to run. Therefore whatever UNH wants to do during a game, using the lobby and concourse, has to be run by this company.....all food and bev served in the skybox area has to come from UNH catering.......when we had Alumni hockey games, we had to pay for the ice time!! So whether or not some of your great ideas are applicable here Dan, I'm sure all would want to increase sales.........

 

[UNH1932]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

Not sure what the situation is on other campuses but UNH does not own the Whitt....a state bond paid for it......it is leased out to a corporation to run. Therefore whatever UNH wants to do during a game, using the lobby and concourse, has to be run by this company.....all food and bev served in the skybox area has to come from UNH catering.......when we had Alumni hockey games, we had to pay for the ice time!! So whether or not some of your great ideas are applicable here Dan, I'm sure all would want to increase sales.........

Zoofer

The University did outsource the management of the Arena for about 10 years, but have managed themselves since then. I do not know if the bond is completely paid off yet. Chris Clement's (CFO) finance office or the Chancellor's office in Concord would have that information and it is public. The University does own the arena. The University has been in discussion with the state about allowing beer sales at both the Whit and Wildcat Stadium. Both sell beer for those in luxury seats out of view from the general public. I have not heard any brewing news in 2017 relating to either venue. They do lease food areas on the concourse and am not sure if they have brought some of that in house. Denver is a private school and has more people within a 15 mile drive than almost all of northern New England and is not really a comparative school with UNH. I have been to Magness for UNH game and I prefer the no beer policy at UNH as we have a large family presence at the Whit. I do not remember seeing as many families with kids at Magness. The crowd was pretty nasty to us particularly when we were down 3-0 at end of first period. They do drink a lot at both Magness and the World Center in Colorado Springs. It seems likely that the state will approve alcohol sales at games within the next few years as it does increase the revenue stream. The people who run the Meadowbrook in Gilford wanted to have concerts from fall to late spring at the Whit about 3-5 years ago and the school said it was too much work to tear down the boards. BU was grandfathered for beer sales at the new arena (they had in old arena) and UML was forced to serve beer by the state when they agreed to sell the Tsongas for $1 to the school. There are many coupons and other business promotions at the Whit and the boards are a great revenue generator. I do not know if they kept the same prices as we all know that we have less TV games (thank whoever for this) and less butts in the seats than before.

The students were allowed to get tickets last minute this year and both sides were mostly full with students for the rivalry games with BC, BU and Maine. There are no lines for tickets on Monday mornings. Our students pay over $900 per year for athletic fees that pay the freight for most sports. If you take away homecoming for football, hockey has as many in the stands for their games than any other football game. The students do not go to football games unless they are in the fields getting drunk or if they give stuff away and then they leave at halftime.

 

[Lemonade]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

Well the question was what should/could UNH do - not what they will do. You're probably right. As a by product of the crappy AD culture they'll probably sit on their hands, scrap together whatever revenue they can and then pout to each other about how hard they have it.

See Umile's comments - college hockey was just as competitive early in his tenure as it is now. It's just that different teams are excelling. UNH and ME stink and UML and PC are good. Just another excuse to rationalize his production (or lack there of)...

As for DU and UML? Who knows - what a great game that would be. DU has more high end talent I guess. I wasn't sure they'd live up to their billing as they just didn't score early in the year, but Montgomery commented a couple weeks ago that they're the highest scoring team in the country since the new year. In seven games - id take DU in six or seven. In a one off - up for grabs.

Unfortunately, I'm not sure that even with a second loss tonight DU can fall out of the west top two and land in the East.

I think the #1 thing they have to do is pack the building. I don't care if you give away tickets - they will recover costs on concessions. A packed building creates the atmosphere….the atmosphere and packed building attract recruits….recruits help get back to winning.

Bringing a recruit to a half empty building isn't going to help get the team over the hump. I have been to games at Northeastern and they get less fans than some high school games - do you think recruits want that? They want to play in front of fans - whether they pay for tickets or not..just get them in the building!