UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

[Lemonade]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

...how do you know that's not the message? I've heard MS say "UNH will win the National Championship" at a FOH meeting. If he's saying that (and I realize in front of a booster club you want to come off as positive as possible and I've got no truck with that) I imagine that is exactly what he's saying to recruits...that THEY can be part of this new era and make a difference right now. Of course his recruiting tells the tale of the tape...and I think (as you mentioned with Gildon and Commesso) we are starting to see that. I'd be very disappointed to think they (he and Stewie) aren't going after every big fish out there, and I'm under no illusion that every top skater they talk to is going to come to UNH. (Although I wouldn't mind that one bit of course!! ) Time will tell. I truly believe MS is chomping at the bit to get this resurgence going and I cannot wait to see it unfold.

Taken from UNH Blog:
Drew Commesso: I visited several area Hockey East schools and had other offers but I felt that UNH was the best fit for me. After visiting a few schools I figured out that I did not want to go to a school with an urban campus so that narrowed my search, and after visiting UNH I knew it was for me. I loved the campus and the coaching staff here was a huge reason I made the decision to come here. I wanted to go to a school that would contend for a national championship ...

Not a resurgence, not a over .500 season....not a Hockey east championship...A NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP....that has to be coming from Souza and I love that. UNH isnt some second rate program - it is and should be a premier program and thats what the message has to be. The program has too much tradition and excellence to be where it is now. Better times are coming!

 

[Nick Papagiorgio]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

UNH isnt some second rate program

Tough to put them in the upper echelon of college hockey by any reasonable measure.

 

[Snively65]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

Culture is an interesting word... Let's add style.

Pre 98-99 UNH's culture/style = **** the torpedoes full speed ahead. Lots of goals fun to watch, in trouble against a solid team ... See Michigan in national semi's

Post 99 until ? UNH's style stronger D and particularly goalies. Team D back checking. Transition offense.

Now??

Do they know what they want to be... What a good player looks like to them?

For a team that valued goalies Tirone is a miss his style to two all over the place and his glove hand might be getting worse.

I am surprised that you would dismiss the 1997-1998 team, our first to reach a FF since 1982. Besides having four high-scoring forwards on that team (Krog, Bekar, Nolan, and Mowers), the team had Jayme Filipowicz (31 points) on the blue line, and five other D-men (Bragnalo, Lind, Enders, O'Brien, and White) who were solid, along with a fine goalie in Sean Matile. Souza had 25 points that sophomore season also, and got the assist for Mowers' goal that beat BU 4-3 in OT, which sent UNH to the FF from the Northeast Regionals. UNH simply could not get anything by Marty Turco in that Semi's game, which is too bad, as a UNH-BC NC game that season would have been one for the ages, like the NC game the next year (BC had won the HEA regular season and tourney, IIRC).

 

[chickod]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

I am surprised that you would dismiss the 1997-1998 team, our first to reach a FF since 1982. Besides having four high-scoring forwards on that team (Krog, Bekar, Nolan, and Mowers), the team had Jayme Filipowicz (31 points) on the blue line, and five other D-men (Bragnalo, Lind, Enders, O'Brien, and White) who were solid, along with a fine goalie in Sean Matile. Souza had 25 points that sophomore season also, and got the assist for Mowers' goal that beat BU 4-3 in OT, which sent UNH to the FF from the Northeast Regionals. UNH simply could not get anything by Marty Turco in that Semi's game, which is too bad, as a UNH-BC NC game that season would have been one for the ages, like the NC game the next year (BC had won the HEA regular season and tourney, IIRC).

I was working in Boston at the time and was at that game (Fleet Center at the time) and sitting 10 rows behind Turco when (not sure, but it might have been Krog) came down the slot and fired one point blank that would have been in the net 99 times out of 100. Turco flashed his glove and made an insane save. After that it seemed as if UNH was just resigned that it wasn't going to be that day. They were visibly deflated. It was a shame because that was a great team.

 

[Lemonade]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

Tough to put them in the upper echelon of college hockey by any reasonable measure.

Very true of late. I was more speaking in terms of the history of the program in its entirety. The last few years they are not in the upper echelon thats for sure.

 

[Nick Papagiorgio]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

I was more speaking in terms of the history of the program in its entirety.

Sam here.

 

[UNH1932]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

I wish I hadn't deleted my post. I am not underestimating the defense, as I said I like Maass, and Gildon will be an upgrade. Full marks to Souza on getting those two, Gildon as a late free agent, and Maass, as an underrecognized kid blossoming his senior year.

I don't think I said MacAdams will be better than Kelleher. Just the opposite, though I have them on the third line to start the season. Clearly Kelleher's bona fides exceed those of MacAdams. Couple of points, though, Goumas was a full year and a half younger than Kelleher, so stats not comparable. Limoges would have been a nice late add, like Gildon, and a nice signal to the recruiting world that UNH was ramping up. I wonder if his announcement on the day Umile hung on was related. Probably not

I agree Watcher with Limoges but his home is much closer to Penn State and they are heading in the right direction. It would have been nice but we should not break the 30 players at time rule. BU and BC were not in heavily early back in the 90's and early 2000's for public school kids and yes Souza was great and was drafted but the focus of BC were for private school kids and BU waited as they thought they could get anyone whenever they wanted during that period. Gildon committed verbally a month or more ago. I am hoping Nazarian has his breakout this year and Blackburn might actually be on the first line this year.

 

[Lemonade]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

Sam here.

Well UNH has 22 NCAA appearances - that is top 10. That to me is upper eschelon.

 

[Dan]

Sam here.

Let's get real Sam. Everyone knows that BC, BU, DU, ND, MN, WI and MI are the programs considered a part of the majestic pantheon of college hockey. And personally, those fan bases are welcome to slap their backs sore with pride. Personally, I couldn't give a **** about being in that group. Providence isn't. Yale isn't. Union isn't. Quinipiac isn't. Who cares.

Watchers evidence clearly proves that for a long stretch of time UNH had no problem competing with those programs for top recruits. They can do it again. On the ice, head to head records would indicate that for a long stretch UNH had no problem going toe to toe with any of those teams. As far as an overall recruiting package UNH can offer a heck of an experience comparable to any of those programs.

Great campus, winning and prestigious history, more than fine academic programs, a great facility, a wonderful location, a passionate if slumbering fan base, top athletic billing on campus, a legitimate pathway to the NHL and much more...

The only thing missing has been someone who could paint the picture and sell it.

UNH made 15 NCAA tournaments, four FFs and won seven regular season titles in a 19 year span. With the right coach - perhaps and hopefully Souza - they can get back to competing on a national level annually. Whether that gets them in the 'club'? Who cares...

 

[UNH1932]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

You hit the nail on the head with Stafford and Hemingway. Haydar and Murray were big hits too. We have recruited some stars as you noted. Admissions took out some of our big hits over the past 6-8 years and we have had a pretty tough time. I know the Hemingway story quite well. We have had quite a few all-americans but for many they did not get their first choice and that was great for us in Kevin Regan's case as he killed BU during his time to show Parker his mistake in not signing him. There are many others in that era as well and we got very good players for sure but not the top kids in the country as a general rule. We find those kids that others do not know. Our Waterloo connection brought four stars in one year in the mid 2000's. None but Kessel was considered a sure thing but that is our best team in a long time.

 

[NCAA watcher]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

It would have been nice but we should not break the 30 players at time rule.

I have UNH at 28 next year, even with Boyd. Shall we expect more?

Sr.Salvaggio----Sr.McNicholas --- So.Grasso
Jr.Nazarian -----So.Blackburn -- Jr.Vela
Sr.Eiserman ----Fr.Kelleher-------Fr.MacAdams
So.BVR----------Jr.Miller---------So.Fregona
Fr.Cipollone ----Jr.Cefalu--------So.Sacco

Sr.Mark------So.Wyse
Fr.Gildon-----Fr.Maass
Fr.Miller-----Sr.Chanter
Jr.Dawson----Fr.Darcy
So.Nonis ---Sr.Boyd??

Tirone/Clark/Robinson

 

[Dan]

You hit the nail on the head with Stafford and Hemingway. Haydar and Murray were big hits too. We have recruited some stars as you noted. Admissions took out some of our big hits over the past 6-8 years and we have had a pretty tough time. I know the Hemingway story quite well. We have had quite a few all-americans but for many they did not get their first choice and that was great for us in Kevin Regan's case as he killed BU during his time to show Parker his mistake in not signing him. There are many others in that era as well and we got very good players for sure but not the top kids in the country as a general rule. We find those kids that others do not know. Our Waterloo connection brought four stars in one year in the mid 2000's. None but Kessel was considered a sure thing but that is our best team in a long time.

I, respectfully, disagree - I believe the step down from stars and kids who chose UNH to landing solid-to-very good talent and becoming a second choice was Borek's inability to keep a good thing going. When he stumbled again - in addition to fumbling away some of his best recruits - we landed where we are today...

 

[Nick Papagiorgio]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

Let's get real Sam. Everyone knows that BC, BU, DU, ND, MN, WI and MI are the programs considered a part of the majestic pantheon of college hockey... that group. Providence isn't. Yale isn't. Union isn't. Quinipiac isn't. Who cares.

Absolutely! It's a new world order. However, if UNH wants to get there, they need to look at what some of these new bloods are doing. Going head to head vs BU and BC is still not going to work in the long run.

 

[Dan]

Absolutely! It's a new world order. However, if UNH wants to get there, they need to look at what some of these new bloods are doing. Going head to head vs BU and BC is still not going to work in the long run.

Disagree - first of all, if I'm recruiting for UNH I believe in what I'm selling and I'm not afraid of anyone. I'll go after the kids I like and I don't care who else is targeting them. All of the blue bloods or nobody...

'Hey kid, come to UNH. We're going to do great things. Be a part of something special and re-awaken a heck of a successful program. You can have all of the personal and team success you can have there, here and then some..."

You may not win all the battles, probably not even the majority, but you'll get some real nice pick ups doing that.

More importantly, here's the secret. Early recruiting. You know what doesn't get mentioned enough? Early recruiting is an advantage for the smaller schools. How can that be you ask...?

First of all you CAN compete for recruits with the 'top' programs. And you'll set a real nice base with some real good talent. You may even pick up a kid or two that has AA talent and hasn't hit the radar of the bigger schools because it's so early. First offer is big.

But here's the kicker - say UNH and BC go head to head over eight kids in a class. BC gets six and UNH gets two. That's two elite talents for UNH that they didn't cheat themselves out of and now UNH gets six scholarship offers of money back! So BC is done, but because UNH got after it and targeted the best early, not only did they do well, they still have tons of time finish off a class.

So they grab two next tier kids who are bound for extremely productive college careers. Then they have enough money to grab three more kids - a combination of late bloomers and studs decommitting from the first wave.

All of a sudden, UNH has a heck of a class on par with anyone's. All of a sudden, UNH can compete with anyone.

Don't get after it with the blue bloods and you miss on every shoot you don't take. So you're starting from scratch, you're desperate. Your second tier kids become your first liners. You have to take more flyers

Going head to head with BC and BU is only part of the process, by you HAVE to do it to be successful...

 

[NCAA watcher]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

Going head to head with BC and BU is only part of the process, by you HAVE to do it to be successful...

You can't always get what you want. But if you try some time you get what you need....

and you send a message to other recruits that you are playing the game.

UNH HOCKEY LANDS A PROLIFIC SCORER BY BARRY SCANLON DECEMBER 21, 1993
One of the highest scorers in the United States Hockey League has given the University of New Hampshire a verbal commitment, the Democrat has learned. Adding talent to an already strong recruiting class is Mark Mowers, a speedy 5'11 170 pound forward currently skating for the Dubuque (Iowa) Fighting Saints. Mowers, 19, selected UNH after visiting Minnesota-Duluth, Providence, North Dakota and Bowling Green. "I guess I just felt very comfortable (at UNH)," Mowers said Monday from his Whitesboro, NY home. I felt real comfortable with the players and the coaches." "I could see myself being at the university for four years," he added. "I felt right at home. They're going to be a good team down the road and I want to be a part of it."
Mowers has led Dubuque to a 16-6-1 record. In 22 games, he has scored 29 goals and added 14 assists for 43 points to rank third in the USHL scoring race. He has scored a point in every game he has played this season, breaking the team record of 19. "I guess I'm just blossoming at the right time," Mowers said. Mowers was at Snively arena on Dec. 4 to watch UNH defeat the University of Massachusetts at Lowell 3-1. He said he was so impressed by his visit that he nearly canceled scheduled visits to Minnesota Duluth and north Dakota. "I felt like making my decision then. I could have made my decision right then," he said. He said he visited Minnesota-Duluth and North Dakota out of courtesy, to see what else was "out there" but he said his decision to accept UNH's scholarship offer was an easy one. "I've had so many sleepless nights thinking about it," he said of the recruiting process. "It's just crazy. There are just so many things going though your mind. I'm sleeping good now. I have no doubts about my decision," Mowers continued.
During the 1992-93 season, Mowers compiled 31-38-69 totals for Saginaw of the North American Junior Hockey League. He finished fourth among NAJHL's scorers in 39 games. Mowers said he was especially impressed by UNH's coaching staff and the support the community and students give the team during his visit to the Durham campus. "The atmosphere was just great," he said. "Bowling Green had a lot of fans (at the game he saw there) but it seemed the crowd (at UNH) got so much more involved in the game." Mowers was recruited by assistant coach Brian McCloskey. He said he felt comfortable around McCloskey, assistant coach Jim Tororella, and head coach Dick Umile. "I fell in love with Coach Umile,” he said. "He seems like a great guy to play for." UNH has had success with USHL players in the past. Former Wildcat All-American goaltender Jeff Levy and current defenseman Kent Schmidtke, a steady junior, were teammates in the competitive league.
The UNH coaching staff is happy with the way the 1994-95 freshman class is developing. Mowers and fellow forwards Rob Gagnon (Avon Old Farms) and Eric Nickulas (Cushing Academy) will help fill the void left by current seniors Bob Chebator, Jason Dexter, Rob Donovan and Glenn Stewart. Pat Bottino (New England College Development League All-star) will bolster an already strong defensive corps which will include Todd Hall, a transfer from Boston College who is sitting out this season. The UNH recruiting class may be complete. But UNH is also in the hunt for Robbie Gordon, a highly-touted center from British Columbia, who visited Durham last week. Gordon has narrowed his choices down to UNH, Boston College, Boston University, Denver and Michigan. He is expected to select his college in about two weeks.

 

[UNH1932]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

You can't always get what you want. But if you try some time you get what you need....

and you send a message to other recruits that you are playing the game.

I agree wholeheartedly watcher about going after the best players. We always do and there are 5-6 BU players and 5-6 BC players that visited UNH. Getting back to tournament and having a young coach they can relate to will help at some level. We have not had a win since Steve Moses vs BC. We cannot even get NH kids who grew up here to come to UNH if BC offers. We have others in the pipeline and I am happy with the progress so far. It does trouble me that we lose out to Northeastern and UConn too often head to head over the past 4-5 years. That never happened before. We lost 6 times over past 4 years to either Notre Dame and Michigan. Most of them would have had better careers at UNH as top two pairings or top two lines would have been better for their hockey progression. We just need to work very hard this year as we have seven or more graduating at the end of next year and that will open up opportunities to reload with top tier recruits as we will have money available.

 

[Dan]

I agree wholeheartedly watcher about going after the best players. We always do and there are 5-6 BU players and 5-6 BC players that visited UNH. Getting back to tournament and having a young coach they can relate to will help at some level. We have not had a win since Steve Moses vs BC. We cannot even get NH kids who grew up here to come to UNH if BC offers. We have others in the pipeline and I am happy with the progress so far. It does trouble me that we lose out to Northeastern and UConn too often head to head over the past 4-5 years. That never happened before. We lost 6 times over past 4 years to either Notre Dame and Michigan. Most of them would have had better careers at UNH as top two pairings or top two lines would have been better for their hockey progression. We just need to work very hard this year as we have seven or more graduating at the end of next year and that will open up opportunities to reload with top tier recruits as we will have money available.

Not winning a battle with BC since Moses, has nothing to do with BC versus UNH and everything to do with those recruiting for UNH and those recruiting BC. UNH has needed a dramatic upgrade in recruiters since Borek spilled Bourque, White and Reid down his leg.

If they get that guy - or if Souza is that guy - they'll start winning a few again. Commesso and Gildon - whether BC offered officially or not - are that type of player and BC would love to have them...

Hopefully that means Souza gets it - now he needs to prove he can be consistent and not surround these guys with also rans - As well as prove that he can NOT blow his best commitments - like his predecessor...

 

[chickod]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

I agree wholeheartedly watcher about going after the best players. We always do and there are 5-6 BU players and 5-6 BC players that visited UNH. Getting back to tournament and having a young coach they can relate to will help at some level. We have not had a win since Steve Moses vs BC. We cannot even get NH kids who grew up here to come to UNH if BC offers. We have others in the pipeline and I am happy with the progress so far. It does trouble me that we lose out to Northeastern and UConn too often head to head over the past 4-5 years. That never happened before. We lost 6 times over past 4 years to either Notre Dame and Michigan. Most of them would have had better careers at UNH as top two pairings or top two lines would have been better for their hockey progression. We just need to work very hard this year as we have seven or more graduating at the end of next year and that will open up opportunities to reload with top tier recruits as we will have money available.

Kids are different today. They are "drawn" by the urban lifestyle. The days of the Saskatchewan farm boy being comfortable in, say, Orono, are over. Technology and social media have changed people and nobody wants to be "stuck" somewhere anymore. It's just the way it is. This is not to refute anything anyone has said, just that it's going to be a little more difficult than it might have even been before. Which is really just reinforcing what you said about getting that "right" recruiting person.

 

[JB]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

Kids are different today. They are "drawn" by the urban lifestyle. The days of the Saskatchewan farm boy being comfortable in, say, Orono, are over. Technology and social media have changed people and nobody wants to be "stuck" somewhere anymore. It's just the way it is. This is not to refute anything anyone has said, just that it's going to be a little more difficult than it might have even been before. Which is really just reinforcing what you said about getting that "right" recruiting person.

Durham isn't exactly the middle of nowhere that would be Orono.

 

[chickod]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

Durham isn't exactly the middle of nowhere that would be Orono.

I said Orono. But Durham isn't exactly Boston or Denver or South Bend, either. You can't hop on a subway and go to a million restaurants, clubs concerts, the beach (or whatever else kids do these days), etc.

You have to be a salesperson in ANYTHING you do in life. I learned that years ago. It doesn't matter how "good" you are, if you can't convince anyone else that you are, it doesn't matter. You could be the best dentist in the world (just to pick a random example), but if you aren't warm and friendly and people don't like you, it'll be "one and done." They'll find someone else to go to. That's just the way it is. Nobody said life was perfect.