UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

[Lemonade]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

Peep athletes and teams can come on unofficial visits - they'd have to travel to UNH on their own, but the NCAA allows all prospects on unofficial visits two comp tickets to a sporting event. Obviously, they are also allowed campus and facility tours. Additionally, coaches can have all the on-campus contact they want with prospects unless there is a dead period in effect...

Sounds like a great opportunity then! Someone get a hold of the top 20 prep school coaches and work out the details. Pick out of a few premiere games and allocate time/tickets for tours. Might as well use UNH's location as an advantage since its close to many of the prep schools. If you can get in 20 prep schools thats roughly 500 hockey players (many high end players) that will be exposed to UNH.

 

[Chuck Murray]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

The recruiting in Durham has been so bad for so long we've totally forgotten our older grievances with the regime of DU. Champions of October, inability to defeat the trap, failure to adjust style to meet particular opponents, lack of situational awareness - down or up a goal, late in game, playoffs - overvaluing seniority in place of talent, playing flat at the biggest moments, etc. I feel bad, I used to have them all memorized, I'm sure I've forgotten something.

Walshy was the king of all of those on the ice, game situation things. While he was a cheating S O B at recruiting he was great at the coaching part of it.

So true, right down to every last detail. You'd like to think Coach would have picked up some helpful insight along the way, but these things just keep happening, right up to the present day. Six (6) goals allowed in the first period of an elimination game ... I mean, you could put a strong prep team out there against UMass Lowell tomorrow night, and it would be a challenge for UML to rack up 6 goals in a full game - much less a single period. But Coach still thinks he has something to offer, and it's not a cash grab, so it's on to 600 ...

 

[NCAA watcher]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

Exposure to UNH is only a small part of the problem. Belief that winning is a consuming passion so that it will be willed into being is something that has to be communicated. That is how Walsh did it when Maine sucked. There was no doubt with his energy that it would happen, and he had a track record at Michigan State to lend some support for the belief that he had the ability to do that. If you have that underlying message, and then one domino falls (Jack Capuano - or for Yorkie, Farkas) the hockey world suddenly takes note. That was the message at UNH in the mid-90s.

Mike Souza's mellow message does not scream determination. He comes across more as a nice guy than intense. If that is who he is, he needs an intense, passionate recruiter who can will it into being. Sean Coady (included for Greg's benefit) and Mark Osiecki at Wisconsin fall into that group. I look for signs of this (see the serial commits at Wisconsin when the new staff went there), but was a bit disappointed that (1) Kelleher/Gildon didn't cause Limoges to flip, and (2) Commesso wasn't able to bring his classmate Liam Connors along with him. Either one of those things might have sent a stronger message to the community.

Edit: Boston College has managed without the intense assistant, but Yorkie had a NCAA title in his back pocket to show recruits he knew how to get there.

 

[Lemonade]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

Exposure to UNH is only a small part of the problem. Belief that winning is a consuming passion so that it will be willed into being is something that has to be communicated. That is how Walsh did it when Maine sucked. There was no doubt with his energy that it would happen, and he had a track record at Michigan State to lend some support for the belief that he had the ability to do that. If you have that underlying message, and then one domino falls (Jack Capuano - or for Yorkie, Farkas) the hockey world suddenly takes note. That was the message at UNH in the mid-90s.

Mike Souza's mellow message does not scream determination. He comes across more as a nice guy than intense. If that is who he is, he needs an intense, passionate recruiter who can will it into being. Sean Coady (included for Greg's benefit) and Mark Osiecki at Wisconsin fall into that group. I look for signs of this (see the serial commits at Wisconsin when the new staff went there), but was a bit disappointed that (1) Kelleher/Gildon didn't cause Limoges to flip, and (2) Commesso wasn't able to bring his classmate Liam Connors along with him. Either one of those things might have sent a stronger message to the community.

We are lucky that Connors didnt bring Commesso to BU! By the accounts I heard BU thought it was a 100% lock done deal that Commesso would go there as the heir to Oettinger. Instead he chose UNH. On a side note - I noticed that Scott Morrow (son of Steve Morrow '91) and Nate Hanley (possible son of Tim Hanley '88?) played on same team (Boston Jr Bruins) as Commesso in summer hockey. Would LOVE to add those players to the recruiting list as well. Souza has to be aggressive with some 01 and 02's as many of the Hockey East programs have. Identify the studs and go get them! Connors would have been a great fit on the large ice surface at the Whitt but right now BU is the place to play.

 

[Dan]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

These are all factors - but North Dakota builds ridiculous rosters because of their cost of attendance. I've said this before but ill re-post a breakdown tonight after work. Money and affording college is still the biggest factor in a families decision...

Here is a breakdown of North Dakota's most underrated recruiting advantage (vs. UNH)...

North Dakota Annual Out-Of-State Tuition Costs:
Minnesota - 8,938.00
Contiguous - 11,476.00*
Midwest Exchange - 11,476.00**
Western Exchange - 11,476.00***
Other - 19,291.00

* MB, SK, MT, SD
** IL, IN, MI, MO, WI, NE, KS
*** AK, AZ, CA, CO, HI, ID, NV, NM, OR, UT, WA, WY

UNH Annual Out-of-State Tuition Costs:
New England Resident - 25,217.50
Other - 28,210.00

North Dakota is an INCREDIBLE bargain. Even more so when compared to any private school. UNH would have to offer a recruit from any of the states listed above a 50% ride just to match UND tuition. Sure, UND has an amazing facility and a winning tradition - but they can throw 18 full scholarships at the best players they can find and then offer walk-on spots that can compete (advantageously!) with most school's 50% rides. Coaching/Recruiting there must be an absolute buffet style bonanza...

Conversely, tuition at BU and BC is over 50,000.00 - and is advantage UNH. However, private schools love to pump up tuition so they can brag about how much aid they give. So it may not be as pronounced...

 

[UNH1932]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

Then shame on UNH for not locking them up on Saturday. Speaking of Walshy, he would have. Completely serious, it's a competition, the sooner they realize that the better.

You do know the most current National Championship trophy is sitting in that megalopolis of Grand Forks, ND, correct?

No, we don't, sorry. The only one that's going to excite is you, and a bunch of other guys on the far side of 50. Some 17 year old from Long Island isn't going to give two craps if Jamie Hislop is in the building. Echo chamber?

EJ

I presume you are not a UNH fan at all and when a top kid says he will commit on Monday and needs the time to be sure it is a right fit, you give them the time. If all you want to do is win without any ethics or morals, why coach hockey at the college level. This is about academics and growth over four important years of their life. Walsh was a rule breaker and yes he won 2 titles, but I prefer a coach who wins and really is interested in the student athletes lives and futures. I know at BC where I presume you are from, they have bright kids who will do well in a life outside of hockey. We have had academic stars as well and though it would be great to win a national championship, it is far more important to prepare these kids for life.

They are an aberration at North Dakota as that is all they have for the winter months in that area and a wealthy donor built a world class rink. I am envious and they recruit very well but rarely run up against the Hockey East teams for talent. They are a first choice school of many in the mid-west, west and western Canada. On average, the kids in the eastern US have shown a preference over the last decade for cities and UNH won far more battles with the Boston schools in the early 2000's than later. Yes I do know where North Dakota is EJ and it would be great if we had an arena and a rich benefactor to help us.

I want former player's families to come to UNH and I agree that Jamie Hislop may not mean much to a 17 year old as you fairly state, it would be nice for more former players would bring their families to games. Most have kids and it is better to keep them fans of UNH rather than BC or BU if they live in the Boston area. For alumni night, the house should pick up the tab and it is important to the UNH family that they keep in touch and participate in the program. If you are Jerry York posting on this sight, I would listen closely to your insights but I am doubtful that you ever coached or played hockey and you rip our coaching staff and players whenever you show up on the board. This is a fan forum, not a rip on everyone and their ideas to get one's jollys.

If you really are a UNH fan, please stop by 104 M 8 at the Whit, and I would like to hear your thoughts on improving our hockey program. I kind of doubt that might happen, but it would give me pleasure to have you visit and give your real insights and what Mike Souza might do to make us a top 10 team for the next 10 years.

I am leaving the forum again and I know you will write some snide comment. I am pretty sure you could care less about UNH and there will be a barrage of Umile stealing money and we will not win more than 14 games and ......

My biggest hope is that we fill the house often this year and have a great summer and I will see those who go to games in October.

Please do not beat up the kids that play for our team and have fun belittling UNH's greatest coach in any sport as he is a great man and just brushes it off. He is fair game but please try to stop the hate and venom on this sight. Umile is better at his job then most everyone else on this sight. He has had some down years but his body of work is as good as it gets at UNH. I know Coach Souza is going to be great and though he is a nice guy with strong morals and values, he plays well to families and recruits. He has closed the deal without leaving a bad taste and without using high pressure tactics. My best guess is that there is not a single person on this board that would do a better job than the UNH hockey staff at recruiting or coaching.

Yes UNH messed up with Vecchione and a few others, but the body of work is better than most.

UNH does bring at least one private school hockey team to the Whit for almost every game. They also have a hockey camp and they also have most of the best 16-18 year old players in the country at the Whittemore Center thanks to Borek and Umile. There are scouts and coaches there and at Exeter for a 3 day showcase.

Best wishes to all and their families on USCHO. For those UNH fans that know me, please keep in touch via email. Keep posting the good news CHC as there will be quite a few new recruits in the new year as we have 7 graduating this year.

 

[zoofer]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

Before you leave 1932, I appreciate your belief that I would be of use on any Board for UNH but I'm a Lumpa! For those that don't know of the term forged by local radio show, Greg and the Morning Buzz, it is a lunch bucket worker, a guy who shleps for a living......I can't join Rotary because I can't take the mandatory lunch during the week! Point being, usually Boards want people who can bring money or prestige to the game......neither are my forte'
In reading your post above, it brought to mind the one thing that I haven't read from anyone.....does anyone remember Coach Holt's retirement party? Almost every player that played for him came back to honor him......was it the Granite St. room in the MUB that we packed......same for his Remembrance Service in the gym at the Field house.....some of the UNH HOF dinners....at all of these events, we were Family! And that is what every player feels, either when playing or after.......even some of the annual golf outings, which can become redundant after 40 years, remind you, as you sit and laugh amongst all these folks that love UNH, how much you loved and miss your days on campus! How Mike or Stewy can explain and emote this to the recruit is the real key......it was back when!

 

[HockeyRef]

Before you leave 1932, I appreciate your belief that I would be of use on any Board for UNH but I'm a Lumpa! For those that don't know of the term forged by local radio show, Greg and the Morning Buzz, it is a lunch bucket worker, a guy who shleps for a living......I can't join Rotary because I can't take the mandatory lunch during the week! Point being, usually Boards want people who can bring money or prestige to the game......neither are my forte'
In reading your post above, it brought to mind the one thing that I haven't read from anyone.....does anyone remember Coach Holt's retirement party? Almost every player that played for him came back to honor him......was it the Granite St. room in the MUB that we packed......same for his Remembrance Service in the gym at the Field house.....some of the UNH HOF dinners....at all of these events, we were Family! And that is what every player feels, either when playing or after.......even some of the annual golf outings, which can become redundant after 40 years, remind you, as you sit and laugh amongst all these folks that love UNH, how much you loved and miss your days on campus! How Mike or Stewy can explain and emote this to the recruit is the real key......it was back when!

Zoofer really appreciate your perspective of UNH hockey and am glad we have people that have first hand experience with the hockey program posting.

I would think that MS amd Stewie do a great job in emphasizing what you speak of having been players. Have heard them both speak of their fond UNH connections and am sure it comes through. I think that's a powerful recruiting tool.

 

[E.J. Smith]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

We have had 3-4 over the past 4 years that were going to commit to UNH on Monday and York called them to offer them on Sunday because a player went pro.

EJ

I presume you are not a UNH fan at all and when a top kid says he will commit on Monday and needs the time to be sure it is a right fit, you give them the time.

Were going to commit and needs the time are two VASTLY different things. My response was to the first one and then you threw the second one at me.

Most likely the truth is BC was the kid's first choice. They didn't have a space for him so he moved towards UNH but York told him don't do anything until X date, that's when my flight risks have told me they'd give me their decision. That date came, flight risks flew, good bye UNH, hello BC.

I'm sure that's not how it plays in the Echo Chamber but that's kinda sorta the whole problem lately anyway, isn't it?

 

[E.J. Smith]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

B....at all of these events, we were Family! And that is what every player feels, either when playing or after.......even some of the annual golf outings, which can become redundant after 40 years, remind you, as you sit and laugh amongst all these folks that love UNH, how much you loved and miss your days on campus! How Mike or Stewy can explain and emote this to the recruit is the real key......it was back when!

You're basically saying sell nostalgia to a 17 year old as a key recruiting tool. Good luck with that, we might as well move to D3 now.

 

[Chuck Murray]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

The things you learn on this board ... if nothing else, it's a treasure trove for fascinating stuff, including:

* EJ is apparently a BC fan. No, really - 1932 says so;
* It costs about as much to go to NoDak now than it did to put our kids in daycare 25 years ago;
* UNH1932 is doing the snowbird "I'm leaving the forum" thing. Again;
* The hockey camp at The Whitt attracts many of the best teens around, but few return for college

Keep it coming!!

 

[Felger]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

Most likely the truth is BC was the kid's first choice. They didn't have a space for him so he moved towards UNH but York told him don't do anything until X date, that's when my flight risks have told me they'd give me their decision. That date came, flight risks flew, good bye UNH, hello BC.

At the risk of Chuck accusing me of being a BC fan I must say I agree that this is/was the likely scenario.

 

[Felger]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

You hit the nail on the head with Stafford and Hemingway. Haydar and Murray were big hits too. We have recruited some stars as you noted. Admissions took out some of our big hits over the past 6-8 years and we have had a pretty tough time. I know the Hemingway story quite well. We have had quite a few all-americans but for many they did not get their first choice and that was great for us in Kevin Regan's case as he killed BU during his time to show Parker his mistake in not signing him. There are many others in that era as well and we got very good players for sure but not the top kids in the country as a general rule. We find those kids that others do not know. Our Waterloo connection brought four stars in one year in the mid 2000's. None but Kessel was considered a sure thing but that is our best team in a long time.

http://www.hockeyeastonline.com/men/boxes.php?mbu_unh1.m17

 

[JB]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

http://www.hockeyeastonline.com/men/boxes.php?mbu_unh1.m17

The goalie BU was happy to see leave was Ayers.

Over 3 seasons Goals against - 1,3,3,5,0,0,0,0,3,4 record was 6-3-1 most importantly in the middle of that 4 game+ shutout streak was a HE tournament and NCAA regional final wins.

 

[Chuck Murray]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

http://www.hockeyeastonline.com/men/boxes.php?mbu_unh1.m17

Another "Umiliation" for those who may have lost track of how many, and how often in the postseason ...

 

[zoofer]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

EJ, if any hockey player, no matter the age, doesn't have an appreciation for what family means, then he/she hasn't noticed the commitment their parents have made for them....in the cost of the sport, driving them to the rink since they were 4 or 5, their parents sitting in a cold rink for hours, many hours spent at tournaments and weekend games in the car driving.....and you think all this is the same as a kid grabbing a B-ball or soccer ball, and leaving the house for awhile? Maybe said kind of player isn't worth the trouble than......not every player is meant to play on any team!

 

[Snively65]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

http://www.hockeyeastonline.com/men/boxes.php?mbu_unh1.m17

Ouch.

 

[Greg Ambrose]

Exposure to UNH is only a small part of the problem. Belief that winning is a consuming passion so that it will be willed into being is something that has to be communicated. That is how Walsh did it when Maine sucked. There was no doubt with his energy that it would happen, and he had a track record at Michigan State to lend some support for the belief that he had the ability to do that. If you have that underlying message, and then one domino falls (Jack Capuano - or for Yorkie, Farkas) the hockey world suddenly takes note. That was the message at UNH in the mid-90s.

Mike Souza's mellow message does not scream determination. He comes across more as a nice guy than intense. If that is who he is, he needs an intense, passionate recruiter who can will it into being. Sean Coady (included for Greg's benefit) and Mark Osiecki at Wisconsin fall into that group. I look for signs of this (see the serial commits at Wisconsin when the new staff went there), but was a bit disappointed that (1) Kelleher/Gildon didn't cause Limoges to flip, and (2) Commesso wasn't able to bring his classmate Liam Connors along with him. Either one of those things might have sent a stronger message to the community.

Edit: Boston College has managed without the intense assistant, but Yorkie had a NCAA title in his back pocket to show recruits he knew how to get there.

Watcher, I've never understood this mindset that because Player A commits to a school, his teammate, Player B should also. Are you taking into account that Player A may not be a leader or the Player B may not be a follower? Or, more likely, regardless of their personalities, most of these kids want to forge their own path? College recruiting is a cut throat business as well. Maybe coach doesn't want Player B. Ever think of that.

I also want to chime in on ways to increase interest in the program. When I was on the FOH board, myself and others tried to get Umile interested in different ways to get new people on board with the program. His default position was that he was going to leave that to the marketing department. Fine. My experience over those many years was that marketing was tone deaf. The fact that, after dropping my season tickets this (had them for 20), I never received a call as to why tells you all you have to know.

I have two suggestions though. First, how about making it a priority that UNH recruit hard on the top couple of New Hampshire players each year. I can tell you that people in the stands question why BU, BC or even Lowell has a NH kid who is killing us. Why didn't e rcuit him, they'll ask. Second, how about having some pre-season practices outside of Durham? Maybe in Concord, Manchester, Salem, Nashua. Have the youth hockey teams there, do some autographs and the like. Seeing college guys in the flesh is a big deal to ten year olds, believe me.

 

[NCAA watcher]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

Watcher, I've never understood this mindset that because Player A commits to a school, his teammate, Player B should also. Are you taking into account that Player A may not be a leader or the Player B may not be a follower? Or, more likely, regardless of their personalities, most of these kids want to forge their own path? College recruiting is a cut throat business as well. Maybe coach doesn't want Player B. Ever think of that.

Not a mindset, its a strong correlation to have someone on the inside selling the program. Maybe Player A does hate B, but more often than not, teams build a pipeline this way. UNH had Stratford until Flanagan took that to BG. Word of mouth is the best recruiter. Especially since Drew and Liam were classmates, you'd assume a stronger connection.

I also want to chime in on ways to increase interest in the program. When I was on the FOH board, myself and others tried to get Umile interested in different ways to get new people on board with the program. His default position was that he was going to leave that to the marketing department.

So like recruiting, not on the job description. Just make sure the check comes in on Fridays, and I'll make sure I'm on the ice from 4-6 Monday through Friday.

 

[Lemonade]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017 Off-season: The Clash Question

Not a mindset, its a strong correlation to have someone on the inside selling the program. Maybe Player A does hate B, but more often than not, teams build a pipeline this way. UNH had Stratford until Flanagan took that to BG. Word of mouth is the best recruiter. Especially since Drew and Liam were classmates, you'd assume a stronger connection.




So like recruiting, not on the job description. Just make sure the check comes in on Fridays, and I'll make sure I'm on the ice from 4-6 Monday through Friday.

I am sure players that are committed to schools do everything they can to recruit their buddies. According to the scouts I know Connors was coaches by Scott Young (BU assistant coach) during his youth hockey days with the Minuteman Flames therefore had a connection with BU. That being said do we know if UNH was even interested in Connors? Finally, if you are a forward and you have the choice between BU and UNH right now I am willing to bet BU wins in that recruiting war a large percentage of the time based on the current situation of both programs. It will be interesting to see if Souza can land a few 02 prospects since he has one already. Most of the blue chip 01s are already committed.