UNH Wildcats 2017/2018 - Umile's Last Stand - The Grand Finale

[Felger]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017/2018 - Umile's Last Stand - The Grand Finale

I think you're all correct. In retrospect it's easy to see the RIT loss as the point where a lot of the accumulated faith in Coach Umile began to leak away. With the teams in the latter part of that decade, and the 2010 team, that really should have been the 3rd "peak" of the Umile era, with one or two more FF appearances, and *maybe* that elusive D-1 title. But the 2010 loss especially registered, since there was every reason to believe (1) UNH would/should beat RIT, and (2) Coach would have learned from the prior postseason disasters - and one very similar one against unheralded Niagara earlier in that decade - and there would be no further "Umile-ations". *cough* 6-2 *cough* And then reality set in, and here we were again, with another inexplicable postseason gack job.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AU_4NehrBdI

And then there was the post-game presser, when Coach moans about some bad breaks and bounces, and 3 goals in 2 minutes to break open a close game in the second period ... and his guys (Butler and LeBlanc) echo the same things, seemingly unaware of any differences between the tactics put out there by Cornell in the previous game, and RIT in the Regional Finals.

I think it's fair to say that a lot of us (myself included) had bought into the idea that Coach had learned his lessons and would eventually figure it out. Peak One ('98 & '99) got them to the FF's twice, and the close call OT with UMaine. Peak Two ('02 & '03) again got them to the FF's twice, with another close call (Vanek's 3rd period in '03 @ Buffalo) but the first two (and still only) HE Tourney titles in program history. I was much less actively following the UNH program during the Peak Three era due to other commitments I'd taken on (happily), but I do remember the RIT loss as a watershed moment where I started really believing that *maybe* Coach really hadn't figured it out after all, and that the '02 & '03 tourney wins were all about Saviano, Collins and Ayers, et als.

Things were already sliding (almost imperceptibly) by 2010, and that began to accelerate (decelerate?) over the next 5 years, which has then been followed by the cratering of the program over these last three seasons. But the last vestiges of unvarnished optimism about Coach Umile's "ceiling" were vanquished in many fans' minds by that 2010 loss to RIT.

I asked the question a couple of days ago in this thread ... what if Coach Umile stepped down at around that point, at around the same age as Coach Lucia when he stepped down at Minnesota? Coach McCloskey at that point had ripped off several HE Women's titles in a row, and was still in the good graces (to say the least) and probably had it at least in the back of his mind that he'd be ready to switch back over to the Men's side if/when his former boss decided to retire. But Coach Umile decided to continue, and *maybe* a frustrated Coach McCloskey was never the same after that, as BOTH programs began the slide down the league's standings.

I can't help but think McCloskey would have jumped in with both feet had he been offered the reins of the Men's program at the time, and who knows how things would have turned out? I think this may be the most underplayed and under-discussed topic arising from the UNH Hockey programs over the last generation.

Thoughts as offseason grist for the discussion mill

Yup, ripped off several HE titles in a row, went to the NCAA's five consecutive seasons, a couple with 33 win teams, and STILL couldn't get over the hump. Sounds like he would have filled the bill perfectly had DU stepped down....

Not that it would ultimately have mattered. Saw Leon Abbott mentioned over on the BU thread. Further evidence that you want to be the guy who replaces the guy who replaced the guy, not the guy who replaces the guy.

 

[chickod]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017/2018 - Umile's Last Stand - The Grand Finale

Saw Leon Abbott mentioned over on the BU thread. Further evidence that you want to be the guy who replaces the guy who replaced the guy, not the guy who replaces the guy.

Yeah, but he wasn't fired for "hockey" reasons...he was fired because of the scandal that ensued with two "ineligible" players...Bill Buckton and Peter Marzo.

 

[Felger]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017/2018 - Umile's Last Stand - The Grand Finale

Yeah, but he wasn't fired for "hockey" reasons...he was fired because of the scandal that ensued with two "ineligible" players...Bill Buckton and Peter Marzo.

Yeah, I know that chickod...

but even though the sample size is small you have to think that is likely how it would have played out longer term.

A couple more serious questions for you:

Did BU have to forfeit any games because of the "Buckton-Marzo affair"?

And have you read Wiseguys?

 

[Greg Ambrose]

Yeah, but he wasn't fired for "hockey" reasons...he was fired because of the scandal that ensued with two "ineligible" players...Bill Buckton and Peter Marzo.

Had the pleasure meeting Vic Stanfield once. He said that it was Ned Harkness who dropped a dime on BU, mostly because he wanted both of them and Jack Kelly has struck first. I was living in Brighton during that time and I recall that one day my Green Line trolley stopped at Babcock Street and, lo and behold, Buckton and Marzo dressed in suits and ties hopped on. I figured they were on their way downtown to see their lawyer. They looked very nervous.

 

[chickod]

Yeah, I know that chickod...

but even though the sample size is small you have to think that is likely how it would have played out longer term.

A couple more serious questions for you:

Did BU have to forfeit any games because of the "Buckton-Marzo affair"?

And have you read Wiseguys?

Yes, I believe they forfeited ten games (but Sean will be able to confirm that).

You know, I haven’t but I guess I should. I lived it, though. Was practically at every game that year (but I’m sure there were so many great behind the scenes stories).

I DO remember getting home at 7:00 a.m. after we won the whole thing in Providence in ‘78.

I DON’T remember everywhere I went in between 11:00 p.m. and then...

 

[Sean Pickett]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017/2018 - Umile's Last Stand - The Grand Finale

I accidentally clicked on the UNH thread and found posts about BU, Bill Buckton and Peter Marzo. Who would have thought!

Yeah, but he wasn't fired for "hockey" reasons...he was fired because of the scandal that ensued with two "ineligible" players...Bill Buckton and Peter Marzo.

Did BU have to forfeit any games because of the "Buckton-Marzo affair"?

Yes, I believe they forfeited ten games (but Sean will be able to confirm that).

No, BU did not have to forfeit any games that Buckton and Marzo played in. Buckton and Marzo went to court and got an injunction to maintain their eligibility and not impact BU's won-lost record in games they played during the 1973-74 season. In the end an agreement was reached (which the NCAA refused to sign) in which, among other things, the players maintained their eligibility for the rest of their collegiate careers at BU.

The 11 forfeit losses happened the previous season (1972-73) when another player on the Terriers, Dick DeCloe, was reported by Cornell after BU trounced the Big Red at Lynah, 9-0. Instead of getting a lawyer DeCloe went back to Canada where he finished the season playing for the Toronto Marlboros of the OHA.

Had the pleasure meeting Vic Stanfield once. He said that it was Ned Harkness who dropped a dime on BU...

Interesting, as Harkness had left Cornell after the 1969-70 season to become the head coach of Detroit for one season and then GM for another three seasons. If it was Harkness his hatred of BU ran very deep. I think it more likely that Stanfield meant Cornell and confused the DeCloe affair with the Buckton-Marzo affair, or maybe Cornell did report both.

Sean

 

[Snively65]

I accidentally clicked on the UNH thread and found posts about BU, Bill Buckton and Peter Marzo. Who would have thought!

No, BU did not have to forfeit any games that Buckton and Marzo played in. Buckton and Marzo went to court and got an injection to maintain their eligibility and not impact BU's won-lost record in games they played during the 1973-74 season. In the end an agreement was reached (which the NCAA refused to sign) in which, among other things, the players maintained their eligibility for the rest of their collegiate careers at BU.

The 11 forfeit losses happened the previous season (1972-73) when another player on the Terriers, Dick DeCloe, was reported by Cornell after BU trounced the Big Red at Lynah, 9-0. Instead of getting a lawyer DeCloe went back to Canada where he finished the season playing for the Toronto Marlboros of the OHA.

Interesting, as Harkness had left Cornell after the 1969-70 season to become the head coach of Detroit for one season and then GM for another three seasons. If it was Harkness his hatred of BU ran very deep. I think it more likely that Stanfield meant Cornell and confused the DeCloe affair with the Buckton-Marzo affair, or maybe Cornell did report both.

Sean

I love this ancient history stuff, but was in Orono during 1972-73 and 1973-74, pre Black Bears, so missed the Buckton-Marzo and DeCloe intrigue; what were these affairs?

Also, injunction vs injection, right?

 

[NCAA watcher]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017/2018 - Umile's Last Stand - The Grand Finale

https://www.ravellaw.com/opinions/cebc213803ee950df28b7a87da53b917
In the Fall of 1970, plaintiff Buckton left his home, transferred to a new school and played for the Oshawa Generals Major Junior A team. During the 1970 season, the rooming house at which he stayed during the school year received $24.00 a week directly from the Generals for his room and board. Buckton also received from the team an additional $10.00 per week for expenses and a total of $4.82 for school books. He received comparable aid during September and October of the 1971 season. Plaintiff Marzo played for the Kitchener Rangers Major Junior A team for the 1970-71 season. He, too, lived away from home and changed schools during the hockey season. The Rangers paid $24.00 a week directly to his landlord for his room and board, as well as $10.00 a week for expenses and a total of $51.47 for school books. In contrast to Buckton, Marzo returned home after the hockey season ended in mid-March. He received a lump sum of $300.00 to cover commuting expenses so that he could continue to attend the same school for the remainder of the academic year. Room, board and expense payments ceased, however, when he moved home. The position of the defendant Associations is that the above described aid received by plaintiffs violates their rules with respect to amateur standing. It is to be noted that prior to 1971 neither defendant Association specified that playing for a Major Junior A hockey team would be grounds for ineligibility. As of the 1971-72 season, however, such play was covered by the following regulation: Any student-athlete who has participated as a member of the Canadian Amateur Hockey Association's major junior A hockey classification shall not be eligible for intercollegiate athletics. N.C.A.A. Const., Art. 3, § 1, O.I.5. (1973-74); E.C.A.C. Bylaws, Art. 3, § 1, O.I.5. (1972). Prior to the 1971-72 hockey season both plaintiffs withdrew from Major Junior A teams and accepted classification at levels of competition lower than Major Junior A, thereby meeting the terms of the aforementioned regulation. During the 1971-72 hockey season Buckton played one exhibition game and two early season contests for the Oshawa Generals Major Junior A team, but he maintained his classification as a Junior B player. Ontario Hockey Association regulations permit a limited amount of interclassification play. Buckton's play was within these limits. Nonetheless, defendant Associations cite such play as a factor in their determination of Buckton's ineligibility. The court determines, however, that plaintiff has a substantial likelihood of establishing that such play did not violate defendants' rules since even his minimal participation was not "as a member of the Canadian Amateur Hockey Association's major junior A hockey classification." O.I.5. Marzo played the entire 1971-72 season with a Junior A team, a lower classification than Major Junior A. This particular regulation, therefore, is not an issue with respect to his case. The E.C.A.C. is an unincorporated association of approximately 212 four year colleges and universities. It conducts the annual E.C.A.C. Division I hockey tournament. The E.C.A.C. conducts its affairs in close cooperation with the N. C.A.A. Its regulations pertinent to the areas involved in this litigation are identical to those of the N.C.A.A.

 

[Chuck Murray]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017/2018 - Umile's Last Stand - The Grand Finale

Fantastic stuff, guys - much appreciated. I'm sure Coach appreciates the contributions to his "Grand Finale" thread.

Now, can we get some links to Walshy's "retroactive financial aid" stunt, and really send this one off in style?

 

[NCAA watcher]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017/2018 - Umile's Last Stand - The Grand Finale

12-6-84

Kingstonian causes forfeits DURHAM, N.H. A Junior defenseman's failure to register for enough credits this fall has forced the University of New Hampshire to forfeit three of its four hockey wins this season. UNH Athletic Director Andy Mooradlan said Kirk Lussier of Kingston registered for only eight credits this semester, four short of the requirement set by the National Collegiate Athletic Association for student athletes. In the six games he played, Lussier scored one goal and had three assists. Last season, Lussier played in all 98 Wildcat games, scoring nine goals and five assists.

 

[Felger]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017/2018 - Umile's Last Stand - The Grand Finale

Fantastic stuff, guys - much appreciated. I'm sure Coach appreciates the contributions to his "Grand Finale" thread.

Now, can we get some links to Walshy's "retroactive financial aid" stunt, and really send this one off in style?

Not as good as "retroactive financial aid" but a gem for Chuck nonetheless:

"Abbott volunteered that he had not pressed either skater hard to divulge all forms of compensation they had received as juniors. He did not instruct either to lie or withhold facts, but, as is the common practice in this most confusing area of foreign athlete eligibility, Abbott said he didn't feel that he was required to press for information he really didn't want to find."

https://www.nytimes.com/1973/12/30/archives/ousted-coach-is-defended-in-foreign-player-dispute.html

 

[Sean Pickett]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017/2018 - Umile's Last Stand - The Grand Finale

I love this ancient history stuff, but was in Orono during 1972-73 and 1973-74, pre Black Bears, so missed the Buckton-Marzo and DeCloe intrigue; what were these affairs?

Also, injunction vs injection, right?

NCAA Watcher's post does a good job of covering Buckton and Marzo. DeCloe's situation was similar, but as I said, he didn't go to court.
Thanks, I made the correction.

Fantastic stuff, guys - much appreciated. I'm sure Coach appreciates the contributions to his "Grand Finale" thread.

Which is why I tried to keep it short and to the point. However, the fallout did affect New Hampshire. In the end 49 eastern players were found to be in similar situations and were allowed to play, but three, including 2 UNH players, Dave Lumley and Jim Harvie, were suspended for 5 games for accepting "bonuses" from their Junior days in Canada.

Sean

 

[chickod]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017/2018 - Umile's Last Stand - The Grand Finale

Last season, Lussier played in all <b>98</b> Wildcat games, scoring nine goals and five assists.

Wow...I guess they played more games back then, huh?

 

[Snively65]

Fantastic stuff, guys - much appreciated. I'm sure Coach appreciates the contributions to his "Grand Finale" thread.

Now, can we get some links to Walshy's "retroactive financial aid" stunt, and really send this one off in style?

Just trying to help finish the thread that you started, Chuck.

Good stuff! I am ready to read once again about Walshy's shenanigans, which also might be of interest to newbies here, and could generate some input from the Mainiacs to keep this thread moving along.

 

[chickod]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017/2018 - Umile's Last Stand - The Grand Finale

And have you read Wiseguys?

Have you? Just downloaded it this morning and can't put it down...even the first page is amazing as it points out the contrast between the days some of us still lament and today...

"College hockey in the 1970s was a different animal than today's game. First thing you would notice is that you could actually see the players' faces....Skates still had steel posts attached to their boots...Sticks were made of real lumber; aluminum and then composite sticks were still a decade away. The ancient technology created a slower, more personal game. Fans could relate to the players more."

"In the 1970s, most American Division I talent came from high school, not Midwest junior leagues or national team programs; they were guys from the neighborhood. The players at BU, by and large, <i>did not treat college hockey as a stepping-stone to the pros.</i>

Good stuff! And it's only Page 2

 

[Felger]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017/2018 - Umile's Last Stand - The Grand Finale

Have you? Just downloaded it this morning and can't put it down...even the first page is amazing as it points out the contrast between the days some of us still lament and today...

"College hockey in the 1970s was a different animal than today's game. First thing you would notice is that you could actually see the players' faces....Skates still had steel posts attached to their boots...Sticks were made of real lumber; aluminum and then composite sticks were still a decade away. The ancient technology created a slower, more personal game. Fans could relate to the players more."

"In the 1970s, most American Division I talent came from high school, not Midwest junior leagues or national team programs; they were guys from the neighborhood. The players at BU, by and large, <i>did not treat college hockey as a stepping-stone to the pros.</i>

Good stuff! And it's only Page 2

Hadn't read it yet, was hoping to get an idea if it was worth reading. Wanted to, but my experience has been that most college hockey books could be written by someone with the pen name Jacque Sniffer. (Nowadays those guys just have blogs.) But Wiseguys looked so interesting. I like the broader context, and the narrative seemed much more creative tying that dominant team into the Olympic experience. Until now I felt the next good college hockey book I read will be the first. Sounds like that's about to change. Thanks!

 

[chickod]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017/2018 - Umile's Last Stand - The Grand Finale

Hadn't read it yet, was hoping to get an idea if it was worth reading. Wanted to, but my experience has been that most college hockey books could be written by someone with the pen name Jacque Sniffer. (Nowadays those guys just have blogs.) But Wiseguys looked so interesting. I like the broader context, and the narrative seemed much more creative tying that dominant team into the Olympic experience. Until now I felt the next good college hockey book I read will be the first. Sounds like that's about to change. Thanks!

Obviously I'm biased. I basically remember EVERYTHING he talks about (even the "pre-season" game that they played at Salem State...which I went to). So "most" people won't experience that level of "connection." But in general, if the story is compelling enough, it will usurp the "ability" of the author (which is a kind way of saying that the author's "limitations" won't hinder the reader's enjoyment of it).

Everyone will have to make up their own mind, but I can tell you those years were amazing to experience in person. Those were the days before ESPN and a million other networks. We would have to "hope" that a local station (like channel 38 or 56) would "pick up" the syndication of a game from out of town. A big regret was never actually SEEING that infamous NCAA semi-final vs Minnesota (the one that got stopped by the bench-clearing brawl). I remember listening to the game in our dorm room on the radio. Boy, have times changed!

And I'm only through three chapters; haven't even gotten to the stuff about the Blizzard of '78 (I was at the Garden that night, too). So it certainly would have more meaning for me, but I have to think that other fans would enjoy it also (UNH is mentioned a few times as well) - especially those who followed college hockey (and especially in the East) at that time.

 

[Felger]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017/2018 - Umile's Last Stand - The Grand Finale

Obviously I'm biased. I basically remember EVERYTHING he talks about (even the "pre-season" game that they played at Salem State...which I went to). So "most" people won't experience that level of "connection." But in general, if the story is compelling enough, it will usurp the "ability" of the author (which is a kind way of saying that the author's "limitations" won't hinder the reader's enjoyment of it).

Everyone will have to make up their own mind, but I can tell you those years were amazing to experience in person. Those were the days before ESPN and a million other networks. We would have to "hope" that a local station (like channel 38 or 56) would "pick up" the syndication of a game from out of town. A big regret was never actually SEEING that infamous NCAA semi-final vs Minnesota (the one that got stopped by the bench-clearing brawl). I remember listening to the game in our dorm room on the radio. Boy, have times changed!

And I'm only through three chapters; haven't even gotten to the stuff about the Blizzard of '78 (I was at the Garden that night, too). So it certainly would have more meaning for me, but I have to think that other fans would enjoy it also (UNH is mentioned a few times as well) - especially those who followed college hockey (and especially in the East) at that time.

Yeah, I can remember when it was such a big deal that Channel 7 was carrying a Game of the Week on Saturday afternoons. I loved actually seeing venues I had only heard about on the radio. Can remember watching when Yale ended the BU undefeated streak.

As far as the Beanpot goes I obviously wasn't there. But can recall listening to it on the radio while the snow piled up outside. As you know back in the days of the unbalanced schedule ALL the Beanpot games counted. Pretty sure when Harvard beat NU they inched ahead of UNH in the standings when standings actually meant something with regard to postseason play.

As Chuck said, Great Stuff!

 

[chickod]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017/2018 - Umile's Last Stand - The Grand Finale

Yeah, I can remember when it was such a big deal that Channel 7 was carrying a Game of the Week on Saturday afternoons.

Funny you bring that up. That was the infamous Bob Gamere (former host of "Candlepins for Cash" and later indicted for other nefarious "activities"). I'll never forget his famous line when describing a Harvard game: "Harvard.....3-15 overall BUT 3-0 in the Ivy League!"

Then you had John Carlson, who would give the complete biography of every player whenever he touched the puck, which resulted in his being five seconds behind every play: "Here's Mike Eruzione...you know....Mike is a local kid who grew up in Win......SCORE!!!!!!!!"

Great memories!

Yeah, I can remember when it was such a big deal that Channel 7 was carrying a Game of the Week on Saturday afternoons. Can remember watching when Yale ended the BU undefeated streak

My wife went to high school in Cheshire, CT (for one year - her Dad moved around a lot). She sat behind some girl who blurted out in class one day, "We're going to blow up the Yale Whale tomorrow." And then apparently a bomb went off there..I don't remember what they were protesting at the time, maybe Vietnam - who knows?

 

[Chuck Murray]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017/2018 - Umile's Last Stand - The Grand Finale

Terrific stuff on the CHDA (College Hockey Dark Ages), which seems more like the Age of Enlightenment in retrospect, given recent trends and sterilization of the D-1 hockey world. But as those of you who've been on here a long time, you'll know there something that's right up there with UNH Hockey among my cherished sports-related pursuits and passions. And even if it's going on 14 years since they left Montreal, I still pay attention, I suppose, because it's one of those things I'm still hoping to see again. Even if these things go under the radar, but here it is.

"The Grand Finale" has also sadly arrived for Le Grand Orange, #10 right fielder Rusty Staub of Les Expos ...

http://montrealgazette.com/sports/baseball/former-expo-rusty-staub-has-died-at-73-reports

There's some terrific video footage embedded in Cowan's tribute article of Staub and the early days of MLB in Montreal. Coming on the heels of another successful cameo for the looming rebirth of MLB in Montreal, and hours before the start of a new baseball season, this made for a poignant last 48 hours at the WIS Estate, where both the US and Canadian flags are flying at half-mast this week. RIP Rusty.