UNH Wildcats 2016-17 -- We're Going to Have a Hockey Season Here!!

[HockeyRef]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2016-17 -- We're Going to Have a Hockey Season Here!!

Which team is now the cupcake? Nice come-from-behind win by the Cats.

Wooo!!! Very happy for them!!!! Psyched for Grasso, Maller and TyK (4 points on the night) ...DT hung in there too...

 

[Chuck Murray]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2016-17 -- We're Going to Have a Hockey Season Here!!

Well done 'Cats on their first win of the season. So much to discuss ... but a great bounce-back (and comeback) win after a bad pair of losses to start the season, and falling behind by two goals early in this one. Would have been quite easy to get discouraged and pack it in, but the boys responded and even when the 3rd period penalties started to go against them, they found a way through the morass and came out the other side with a clutch late game-winner. Kudos to Coach Umile (or you-MEAL, per the Clarkson announcer) for trusting a kid like Nazarian to be taking most of the key late defensive zone draws, too.

I'll let everyone else fill in the blanks with their opinions and analysis of the game, and I'll be back either tomorrow or early next week with the update on the "Umile's Last Stand" feature. But it's going to be a much more pleasant bus ride back from the North Country after this win, and I'm happy for all concerned that they've now broken the ice after a really scary start to the season.

Now, on to my legion of admirers who chimed in with their thoughts in between games ...

Chuck, Tirone is criticized more than Clark because he's not as good as Clark. Tirone's deficiencies are well documented. Look at Clark compared to him and tell me that he is not better. I really don't want to debate this much because the team rises and falls not so much because whose in goal but what's in front of him.

Hey, we're all entitled to our opinions, Greg. I personally think you are giving Clark WAY too much credit, and I'm not sure what for? At least with Tirone, we have the second half of the shared Clark/Tirone frosh season (courtesy of CDS) to look back at, and see a kid who did play pretty darned well for an extended period of time - even well into the HE Tourney IIRC? Frankly, I thought Clark deserved better than having a permanent seat on the bench in the second half of that season ... but the results before and after were remarkably better when Tirone was playing.

Tirone clearly struggled for long stretches of the season last year, no doubt. Clark unfortunately got hurt shortly after it looked like he was going to get his break to get extended action in what likely would at least have been a rotation. Oh well. And this weekend, he got another shot at it and let in six, leaving the door open for Tirone's return ... and DT took the opportunity (again) with a strong performance, and I'd say one of the main reasons UNH won was Tirone's play in the 3rd period when UNH was down two skaters.

I've seen some posters say that Clark "fills the net better" 'cuz he's bigger, and that's true. But I don't see the same skill and/or agility with Clark as I've seen with Tirone when he's on his game. If we saw THAT Tirone more often, I don't think we'd be having this debate. The back-up goalie is sometimes the fan favorite *just because* ... just as it can be with the back-up quarterback.

I'm not saying Clark is trash OR Tirone is All-Hockey East caliber, nor am I saying Clark should never play again. But the guy who sees these kids every day clearly thinks one gives him a better chance, and I tend to agree.

It really is mind boggling how far UNH has fallen in such a short time. But I have seen it before, in the eighties. UNH made the eight team NCAA tournament in 1983 and three years later they won just five games. It is eerie how the end-of-career fortunes of Charlie Holt and Dick Umile are so similar. You take a disengaged coach who trusts his assistants to bring in the players and, when they don't, he doesn't have the gumption to call them on it. This is what you wind up with. From that dismal five win season it took four years for the team to reach .500 again. And to reach that level it took a new recruiting philosophy and a new coaching philosophy. Will it happen again? Thoughts?

I've been drawing the Holt-Umile parallel for several years now, dating back to my infamous "Open Letter" thread. To Umile's *credit* - and to be clear, I think *credit* is probably too positive a word - the fallback in the program during his tenure has been more measured and gradual, whereas with Coach Holt (as you've pointed out), it was quick and traumatic. I think it's safe to say that I'm in the same camp as those who think Umile has overstayed (and under-applied), and should not have been allowed to do so. I'm also increasingly pessimistic about the current (unique) succession plan - which also is overly drawn out IMHO. I'm late to that parade (I think 'Watcher was driving that bus well before myself) but as the last year-plus has played out, it's hard not to question it. I do think it would be a HUGE mistake for Coach Souza to just assume he'll walk into the head job in a year and a half regardless of what the team does on and off (recruiting) the ice.

Darius - I think when boiled down the complaints revolved around less talented and less deserving players on the ice in place of better options in the seats. Seems, unless there is a suspension, we're right on schedule...

Greg is right on about the goalies - one is just better. Though he certainly didn't run with his opportunity which, based on precedent, may end up as an excuse to give Tirone a long leash starting tonight...

EJ - don't bother, Chuck simply hates talent. I think deep down this is secretly his favorite era of UNH hockey. An entire team of hard working, every man kids. Except for that showboating #16, amirite Chuck?! Here's to Salvaggio potting eight goals and cracking Chuck's top-ten UNH forwards of all-time...

Dan, Dan, Dan ... OK I'll give you the same chance to tell me what you've seen to *prove* Clark is "just better". Again - I'm not ripping Clark, and I don't disagree that he should have a bigger role than he's had the last season-and-a-half. But has he ever shown the same in goal at any time as Tirone showed two Springs ago? That would be NO. Might he show us someday? I sure hope he does - that's win-win for the program. I'd love to say Umile made a mistake in getting Tirone a few months early and burning a year of his eligibility ... but I don't remember anyone advancing that argument too often or too forcefully when UNH was uncharacteristically blowing through teams left right and center down the stretch in Spring '15. It's looking like that might turn out to be the high water mark for this program at least for the next couple of/few seasons. Other errors were made before and since that's cost UNH ... but Tirone was/is not one of them.

Now onto your other *point* ... I do NOT "hate" talent. My point is that talent is not the full package, and if you have talent without the heart and motor, you are cheating a lot of people (but mostly yourself) who are counting on you - coaches and teammates FAR more than us fans, BTW. You're still sore that my take on the now-departed Andrew Poturalski wasn't more sympathetic, but I stand behind what I posted then. I have all the time in the world for Kelleher, who is an equally talented four year player who has my full respect when he's fully applied himself (and there were times late last season where I think he'd honestly admit his head was not where it needed to be). Your timing on the swipe at Salvaggio is interesting though seeing that his two-way play late in the game won it for UNH.

Finally, I'm going to venture here only once and for the limited purpose of putting the "talent" issue to bed from my perspective - and you do not have to agree. But over the last 15 years I've coached several future D-1 athletes (past and current) and a larger wave of D-3's, up to and including interaction with the recruiting process - as limited as that might be below D-1. I get an opportunity to see a lot of players, and maybe your experience in your sport is different than mine ... but when you see what makes a kid tick up close and personal, there are tons of talented kids who aren't as good as they (or those close to them) think they are. There's a common term used for those players, which I'm not going to repeat here ... but they are best avoided, and when I've avoided them and seen them in other settings in the future, I've left comfortable in the sense that I made the right decision probably 90% of the time. So I'm not pulling this out of my ... behind.

I once accused Chuck of being more verbose than a Philadelphia lawyer back in the day (remember that Chuck?).Some things never change!

My question for Chuck is; You seem to have written off BvR after one game. Isn't that a rush to judgement?

I do remember that, e.cat. It's all good, and I'm comfortable with the fair give-and-take on these boards. Once upon a time I was wrong about a certain UNH Football coach too, but I think you'll at least concede that if someone makes a convincing argument, I have no issue admitting when I'm wrong. It happens once or twice a decade, I figure.

On the BvR thing ... I think all I've said 3 games into his UNH career is that I really haven't seen much from him yet. Two PP assists in the UNB exhibition game wowed some folks, but even strength then and since (including tonight) I don't think he matches up with what we've seen so far from many of the other frosh forwards. But TvR struggled early in his career too, and look how that worked out. I'm going to be patient, but for a kid with some size on him, I really haven't seen him putting that to much use yet, and skills-wise I'm not wowed either.

Patience, EJ ... your time is coming soon enough.

 

[Chuck Murray]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2016-17 -- We're Going to Have a Hockey Season Here!!

I really wish you hadn't responded, I'd love to let this go, but you know...

... yeah, I know - same here. But we're into it, so we might as well continue ... keep the folks entertained.

You do realize he was 20, 21, 22 when he played in Philly, right? And put up what I guess only I'd consider pretty good numbers for a guy that age, including a 20 goal season and more than respectable playoff numbers. Honestly, if you have a problem with his production playing in the NHL at that age, I think you might be trying a little too hard to make your case.

First, I want to congratulate your boy JvR for a nice goal tonight against the B's. Maybe this will be his year? Noticed he's skating 2nd line this year, so you're right about that one too (so far). Only 9+ years to go then. Maybe Babcock and the Leafs can get Jumbo Joe out of SJ to get your boy up to that elusive 40 goal plateau you think he's destined for?

Pretty good numbers, sure. Overall #2 pick in the draft numbers? If he'd built consistently or steadily on that into a substantially better level, then we're good. You know ... like that other overall #2 pick the B's made a year or two after Philly drafted JvR? The guy who really HAS become a steady 30+ goals/70+ points NHL star, with pretty decent +/- too? Maybe you're confusing the two? Or it's down to JvR's playing at a young age, unlucky health issues, weak surrounding cast, biorhythms being off, etc.??

I'll let you off the hook by saying JvR simply wasn't worthy of a #2 overall draft selection. He's not the first, and won't be the last. I think you've already agreed in principle (see below). Good for JvR money wise ... but Philly bailed on him just like the B's bailed on you-know-who. With you-know-who, I think we all know he was just a bad fit for the organization (OR the organization should've been more patient). With JvR and Philly, the best you can say is that Philly wanted to reunite the Schenn brothers REALLY badly. Or more likely, they saw what they needed to see, and decided to move on.

You're right your Honor, I stand humbly corrected. He followed up that 30-31-61 season with a measly 27-29-56. The yawning statistical chasm between those two seasons is mind boggling. How could I ever have considered them more or less the same thing? Sometimes I forget the historical responsibilities we have to accuracy when posting here on USCHO. Decades hence when scholars are pouring over these threads in the Library of Congress I'd hate to think I led them astray...

Don't. Ever. Change. This is your magic, you've always done it better than everyone else. Bravo sir!!

... but unfortunately you thought you had to go for the big finish, and gave me this gift of an opening ...

Did you really just base a point off the Flyers front office's ability to evaluate talent? Seriously?

Seriously? Chuck, you're better than that. That one was too easy.

That would be the same Flyers' front office that selected JvR as overall #2 in the draft, correct?

I'm 99% sure the GM when they drafted him in '07 was the same as when they traded him in '12 (Holmgren)?

Only difference I can see is that by 2012, the Flyers' head coach was Peter Laviolette (guess not a big JvR fan)?

So again, I guess you have a point here if you follow the logic as outlined below:

(1) Philly (Holmgren et als) nailed it and got it right when they picked JvR #2 overall in 2007;
(2) Philly (Holmgren et als 5 yrs. on, add'l insight) bailed out on JvR early after seeing him up close for 3 years; and
(3) Therefore, Philly's talent evaluators got fleeced in the JvR for Schenn deal by Toronto's talent evaluators;
* you know - that historically bad Toronto organization that couldn't surround JvR with more talent *

If Philly couldn't evaluate talent in 2012 ... what makes you think the same guy was better at his job in 2007?

And if Toronto's front office has been so bad (true) ... are we to conclude their JvR deal was a rare good one?

Sorry EJ, you can't have it both ways - in either scenario. But time is on your side, so let's wait & see ...

 

[e.cat]

Wooo!!! Very happy for them!!!! Psyched for Grasso, Maller and TyK (4 points on the night) ...DT hung in there too...

Good win for the Cats for sure on a tough road trip. Impressive Grasso performance. Clutch TyK performance. Should help the collective psyche!

 

[FiveHole12]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2016-17 -- We're Going to Have a Hockey Season Here!!

This thread really does have some entertainment value.

Curious... who was in net for the big win?

 

[Darius]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2016-17 -- We're Going to Have a Hockey Season Here!!

This thread really does have some entertainment value.

Curious... who was in net for the big win?

GP Minutes GA Saves Shots Save% GAA Record
Daniel Tirone 2 117:12 7 45 52 .865 3.58 1-1-0
Adam Clark 1 59:44 6 34 40 .850 6.03 0-1-0

CC (Colorado College or Cup Cake?) up next. 'cats have Friday night off, CC plays BC at Conte.

 

[Snively65]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2016-17 -- We're Going to Have a Hockey Season Here!!

Wow...who'd a thunk that Maller would score the 'Cats first 5-on-5 goal of the season??

His first UNH career goal, if someone did not already mention that?

 

[Snively65]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2016-17 -- We're Going to Have a Hockey Season Here!!

Well done 'Cats on their first win of the season. So much to discuss ... but a great bounce-back (and comeback) win after a bad pair of losses to start the season, and falling behind by two goals early in this one. Would have been quite easy to get discouraged and pack it in, but the boys responded and even when the 3rd period penalties started to go against them, they found a way through the morass and came out the other side with a clutch late game-winner. Kudos to Coach Umile (or you-MEAL, per the Clarkson announcer) for trusting a kid like Nazarian to be taking most of the key late defensive zone draws, too.

A former UNH president also introduced DU by that pronunciation at a post-Buffalo 2003 event at the Whitt.

 

[E.J. Smith]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2016-17 -- We're Going to Have a Hockey Season Here!!

... yeah, I know - same here. But we're into it, so we might as well continue ... keep the folks entertained.
...
Sorry EJ, you can't have it both ways - in either scenario. But time is on your side, so let's wait & see ...

Pertaining to this purported "opening"...

I don't know if this helps you or me but I have to start by saying the 07 draft wasn't exactly a classic. After Kane, the top 10 isn't exactly a who's who of future hall of famers.

As a side note, how great to be reminded that the Bruins passed on P.K. Subban not once but twice in that draft, for Zach Hamill and Tommy Cross...

I was surprised the Flyers took JVR at 2. I think most people figured at the time that they were playing the local NJ kid angle.

That said, JVR was in the top 5 of every scouting list in the world for that draft. Taking him at 2 was more or less just following the consensus of the hockey world. Trading him 3 years later was all the Flyers.

Another example off how they historically tear themselves down completely of their own accord through bad trades, bad contracts, bad coaches. The Flyers are one of the 3 teams in the league that continually let their history and "culture" sabotage their present. Montreal does it with their obsession with French-Canadian players and coaches and Philly and Boston do it with their obsession with "toughness", and how a player today would have fit in with their teams in the '70s. "He's not a Bruins type playah. All he can do is skate and score, friggin hit someone." I can't think of another franchise in the NHL that let's their past get in the way of their present like those 3 nutcases do.

 

[HockeyRef]

Pertaining to this purported "opening"...

I don't know if this helps you or me but I have to start by saying the 07 draft wasn't exactly a classic. After Kane, the top 10 isn't exactly a who's who of future hall of famers.

As a side note, how great to be reminded that the Bruins passed on P.K. Subban not once but twice in that draft, for Zach Hamill and Tommy Cross...

I was surprised the Flyers took JVR at 2. I think most people figured at the time that they were playing the local NJ kid angle.

That said, JVR was in the top 5 of every scouting list in the world for that draft. Taking him at 2 was more or less just following the consensus of the hockey world. Trading him 3 years later was all the Flyers.

Another example off how they historically tear themselves down completely of their own accord through bad trades, bad contracts, bad coaches. The Flyers are one of the 3 teams in the league that continually let their history and "culture" sabotage their present. Montreal does it with their obsession with French-Canadian players and coaches and Philly and Boston do it with their obsession with "toughness", and how a player today would have fit in with their teams in the '70s. "He's not a Bruins type playah. All he can do is skate and score, friggin hit someone." I can't think of another franchise in the NHL that let's their past get in the way of their present like those 3 nutcases do.

JvR has a new number (25) as his old (21) was retired...FWIW dept

 

[C-H-C]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2016-17 -- We're Going to Have a Hockey Season Here!!

"UNH Finds the Win Column for the First Time"
by Ben Nawn

 

[Chuck Murray]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2016-17 -- We're Going to Have a Hockey Season Here!!

The Flyers are one of the 3 teams in the league that continually let their history and "culture" sabotage their present. Montreal does it with their obsession with French-Canadian players and coaches and Philly and Boston do it with their obsession with "toughness", and how a player today would have fit in with their teams in the '70s. "He's not a Bruins type playah. All he can do is skate and score, friggin hit someone." I can't think of another franchise in the NHL that let's their past get in the way of their present like those 3 nutcases do.

Totally agree. Those 3 teams totally dominated the '70's - Habs with 6 Cups, and the B's and Flyers with 2 apiece. It's really amazing just how little any of those 3 franchises' mindsets have changed in the last four decades. And of those 3, I'd nominate the Canadiens as the dumbest of them all.

I mean, you can (and should) add physical toughness as a key element to a winning team, and it's out there and it's not really in limited supply. The Canadiens ... well, they're working off a script that became functionally obsolete about 50 or so years ago when the NHL abolished territorial rights, and subjected everyone to the player draft as the primary means of signing incoming stars. As a result, they will often draft a French-Canadian player higher than they should have, or (worse) overpay for a F-C player in a trade because every other GM in the league knows they can leverage the Habs to give up more "just because".

And the funny thing is it also cost them Scotty Bowman after the '79 Cup, who has since presided over the first 2 Cups in Pittsburgh, and resurrected two slumbering Original Six franchises in Detroit and now in Chicago. Although Bowman was always fluent in French, I think if his name was Serge Beaumonde, he'd never have been allowed to leave, and the 24 or so Cups they've been stuck on now for a generation would probably be at or approaching 30 instead. Dumb dumb dumb ...

 

[JAB]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2016-17 -- We're Going to Have a Hockey Season Here!!

JvR has a new number (25) as his old (21) was retired...FWIW dept

To you JvR detractors: He plays for the Leafs for only 4 seasons and gets his number retired!! Don't know any one else in any sport who's accomplished that!!

 

[HockeyRef]

To you JvR detractors: He plays for the Leafs for only 4 seasons and gets his number retired!! Don't know any one else in any sport who's accomplished that!!

That wouldn't be me...Oh and it wasn't his number it was a former Leaf...should have clarified!

 

[Dan]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2016-17 -- We're Going to Have a Hockey Season Here!!

Chuck - not only can you not ignore over a year of poor play from Tirone, but you're clearly scouting the stat line and ignoring the circumstances of Tirone's run of success. The goalies played behind two different teams that season - as consistently pointed out by myself and others, at the time!

In the first half, Stewart coached the defense and the team defensive play was a mess. The first half was plagued with turnovers and an inability to break the puck out of the zone. In the second half Umile swapped Stewart and Borek and rode the team the entire break about a commitment to team defense. The improvement in the second half play in front of the goalies was substantial and undeniable. BTW, for those of you looking forward to the Souza regime - guess who's been coaching the D the last two years...

So as much as you want that season to be definitive proof - it's not in the least. Additionally, it is an incredibly small sample size that now represents just a small part of Tirone's overall resume. As you said yourself - it was TWO springs ago. As in, he has not played consistently well in nearly TWO years.

As far as Umile - this is a coach who apparently thinks Chanter is a better center option than McNicholas, who thought the senior trio was his best line for nearly half of last season (and thought they were a shut down line for the other half), who thought MacDonald was the right fit as team captain and who were told thinks Chris Miller has the best wrist shot in Hockey East...

His personnel decision making has been impeccable the last few years! And we all know Umile would NEVER make a quick judgement of his players and stubbornly hold onto it, deferring to "his guys" while others are constantly overlooked. No way, never!

I believe Clark to be considerably better because I go to or watch every game. Despite living 2,000 miles away I probably made more games last year (6) than you have in a decade. When you watch the two play - or watch them warm up, which I always do - the choice is clear.

When the team and the defense plays well - both goalies will look good. When they play poorly neither will look great. Clark is the better goalie and by far the better option behind a shaky defense because he fills the net and forces shots to beat him. Tirone is abused on clear shots with corners picked easily, he continues to give up soft goals at the worst time (lost in his performance last night was the fact that once again, nearly one minute after UNH tied the game at two he gave it right back...) and scrambles as much as the D in front of him leaving everyone in a prone position. The amount of credit he gets on this board for scrambling to make a great save on one side of the net only for it to be tapped in on the other side is astounding...

The proof is there for you to see Chuck - all you have to do is watch the two goalies play. Umile clearly made up his mind up two years ago and hasn't budged despite everything that HS happened since. You're a smarter guy than that though, right?

I'll say it again - Tirone is DiGi. He had a great run once, but all told he is not a starting goalie at this level on many teams...

 

[Chuck Murray]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2016-17 -- We're Going to Have a Hockey Season Here!!

Yes, it's time ... from WIS Productions, here's the latest chapter of "Umile's Last Stand - The _____ for 600".

Umile's Last Stand - The Quest for 600"

Coach Umile's current career wins total: 572
Wins Remaining to the next round number: 28
*Games Remaining (Next 2 Seasons - Min.): 69
Win Pct. Required to Hit Target: approx. 40.5%
WIS Estimated Likelihood of Success: 80%
2016/2017 Cupcake Quotient to Date: 0/1 (0%)

After losing their "must-win" season opener at home against AHA cupcake Bentley, and getting drubbed on Friday at St. Lawrence, things were starting to look pretty grim, and some of the Wildcat faithful were thinking the unthinkable. WIS felt it was a little early to push the panic button, and predicted a road win against Clarkson in this space last weekend, which the 'Cats were able to bring home due to a late goal set up by a great defensive play on the forecheck by Jason Salvaggio, who then put it on a saucer for Tyler Kelleher for the winner. We also saw a strong bounce-back effort from G Dan Tirone, whose strong play when his teammates were on the PK through long stretches of the 3rd period may have been the key, and likely has kept him at the top of the goalie depth chart over Adam Clark, who again came up wanting in allowing 6 goals in Friday night's SLU rout in his latest shot at wresting away the top job. Probably unfair to Clark, but WIS gets the feeling that while Tirone remains #1 in Coach Umile's heart, we can expect to see Clark get another chance on the weekend after next, as the cupcake-fest begins in earnest.

WIS experts have projected Coach Umile's Wildcats would amass at least 10 wins in the opening 18 game stretch of the season, until the calendar changes to 2017. WIS remains bullish on this projection. There were always going to be bumps in the road, and the road win against non-cupcake Clarkson arguably makes up the lost ground squandered against the Fightin' Beancounters. Fans are most curious as to why D Dylan Chanter continues to center the 4th line (at least on the line chart) while a 5th year senior and a promising forward both appear to be AWOL ... but no one out there appears to be asking that simple question? Coach Umile's quest for the next round number remains on course, and should still be an 80% likelihood, since Coach has regularly won well over 40% of his games. And so long as this year's team meets modest expectations for 15 wins, you gotta believe BS35+4 and Coach will put together an NC schedule for next season that makes this year's NC schedule look like the highway to he11. The season should take a decided turn for the better over the next few weekends, when the parade of cupcakes begins in earnest.

Predictions:

Saturday: UNH 4 Colorado College 2

NEXT CUPCAKES ON THE SHELF: 10/28/16 @ UMass Amherst; 10/29/16 @ home vs. Merrimack

NEW FEATURE - IS BS35+4 PAYING ATTENTION YET?

In a word ... no. UNH Football saw its 3 game winning streak fall by the wayside to #7 JMU this weekend, but the 'Cats remain at 4-3-0 and 3 wins in their last 4 games probably gets UNH back in the D-2 tourney. And with a brand new home stadium where he doesn't have to worry about the physical safety of low level national media folks in the precarious crow's nest they used to call a "press box", you know our boy is dreaming of hosting a long run of home playoff games where he won't have to wear a disguise to avoid his formerly annoyed guests. He'll see a 1-2-0 record, shrug, and vow to get around to that "eventually". Meaning, "wake me when Football's over".

* - minimum games remaining assumes 34 regular season games, and at least 2 games in the MBPBEGAM "playoffs"

 

[NCAA watcher]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2016-17 -- We're Going to Have a Hockey Season Here!!

As far as Umile - this is a coach who apparently thinks Chanter is a better center option than McNicholas, who thought the senior trio was his best line for nearly half of last season (and thought they were a shut down line for the other half), who thought MacDonald was the right fit as team captain and who were told thinks Chris Miller has the best wrist shot in Hockey East...

His personnel decision making has been impeccable the last few years! And we all know Umile would NEVER make a quick judgement of his players and stubbornly hold onto it, deferring to "his guys" while others are constantly overlooked. No way, never!

I assume that because Hill would be one of Umile's guys that McNick and Hill have bona fide excuses. I also see that he quickly realized Cefalu is not a second line winger, and swapped him out for Fregona, even though Fregona is a bit undersized and not yet at the speed of the game to create his own space.

Kudos to the coaches for getting the kids to come back from 0-2, when so many things were piling on (me included). The youngsters will get lots of experience. I think they will be OK up front, expecially when the two and Vela return. The D is still pretty weak, with no real help on the way

 

[Dan]

I assume that because Hill would be one of Umile's guys that McNick and Hill have bona fide excuses. I also see that he quickly realized Cefalu is not a second line winger, and swapped him out for Fregona, even though Fregona is a bit undersized and not yet at the speed of the game to create his own space.

Kudos to the coaches for getting the kids to come back from 0-2, when so many things were piling on (me included). The youngsters will get lots of experience. I think they will be OK up front, expecially when the two and Vela return. The D is still pretty weak, with no real help on the way

I hope you are right - if the FR line continues to grow and you paired McNick and Vela with Eiserman you might even have scoring depth. However, McNick has clearly never been a favorite of Umile's and Hill has played in just 69 games going on five years now. To me, he appears to be one of a few upperclassmen Umile has never trusted...

I'm also confused as to why he would ever think Cefalu would be a fit on the second line?

 

[Chuck Murray]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2016-17 -- We're Going to Have a Hockey Season Here!!

I think it's probably unfair to put too much focus on a single comment in a pretty decent post, so I'll just jump in and say where we agree and where I disagree. I'll let you figure out which was the shocker ...

Chuck - not only can you not ignore over a year of poor play from Tirone, but you're clearly scouting the stat line and ignoring the circumstances of Tirone's run of success. The goalies played behind two different teams that season - as consistently pointed out by myself and others. Don't necessarily disagree - always felt Clark wasn't as bad as the team's first half record, and I was surprised and disappointed he didn't play in the second half of the season - but understood the decision

In the first half, Stewart coached the defense and the team defensive play was a mess. The first half was plagued with turnovers and an inability to break the puck out of the zone. In the second half Umile swapped Stewart and Borek and rode the team the entire break about a commitment to team defense. The improvement in the second half play in front of the goalies was substantial and undeniable. BTW, for those of you looking forward to the Souza regime - guess who's been coaching the D the last two years ... Agree - frightening

So as much as you want that season to be definitive proof - it's not in the least. Additionally, it is an incredibly small sample size that now represents just a small part of Tirone's overall resume. As you said yourself - it was TWO springs ago. As in, he has not played consistently well in nearly TWO years. Again - don't necessarily disagree ... but I'm missing the part where Clark has since stepped in and "proved" himself as the solution for more than a game?

As far as Umile - this is a coach who apparently thinks Chanter is a better center option than McNicholas, who thought the senior trio was his best line for nearly half of last season (and thought they were a shut down line for the other half), who thought MacDonald was the right fit as team captain and who were told thinks Chris Miller has the best wrist shot in Hockey East ... McNicholas doesn't add up - and yeah, the Miller thing is just crazy talk

His personnel decision making has been impeccable the last few years! And we all know Umile would NEVER make a quick judgement of his players and stubbornly hold onto it, deferring to "his guys" while others are constantly overlooked. No way, never! <== I'm just adding that because I understand and again agree

I believe Clark to be considerably better because I go to or watch every game. Despite living 2,000 miles away I probably made more games last year (6) than you have in a decade. Overstatement, but fair enough When you watch the two play - or watch them warm up, which I always do - the choice is clear. That may be crazier talk than Coach's assessment of Miller's wrister

When the team and the defense plays well - both goalies will look good. When they play poorly neither will look great. Clark is the better goalie and by far the better option behind a shaky defense because he fills the net and forces shots to beat him. So he's not "better" - he's just bigger Tirone is abused on clear shots with corners picked easily, he continues to give up soft goals at the worst time (lost in his performance last night was the fact that once again, nearly one minute after UNH tied the game at two he gave it right back...) and scrambles as much as the D in front of him leaving everyone in a prone position.He seemed pretty disciplined last night? The amount of credit he gets on this board for scrambling to make a great save on one side of the net only for it to be tapped in on the other side is astounding...

The proof is there for you to see Chuck - all you have to do is watch the two goalies play and apparently warm up too now, right?. Umile clearly made up his mind up two years ago and hasn't budged despite everything that HS happened since. You're a smarter guy than that though, right?

I'll say it again - Tirone is DiGi. He had a great run once, but all told he is not a starting goalie at this level on many teams... Neither is Clark, unfortunately ... hopefully Tirone's warm-ups improve quickly, though.

 

[Dan]

I think it's probably unfair to put too much focus on a single comment in a pretty decent post, so I'll just jump in and say where we agree and where I disagree. I'll let you figure out which was the shocker ...

Pretty good post by you too - but if you did ever watch the two warm up or compared them to goalies around college hockey you would be astounded at how easily the team picks corners on Tirone over and over - it is absolutely proof of how much net space he shows to shooters as compared to other goalies. Perhaps that is why some think thy UNH boasts so many of the best shooters in the league...

Clark is better, in large part, yes, simply because of his size and style. It's a huge factor that cannot be ignored...