UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part Three) - Living in Interesting Times

[e.cat]

Need to get rid of Sweeney and Neely. It's their meathead philosophy that has driven away talent in favor of grit (witness trading Seguin, Kessel, Hamilton), and passing on the most obvious picks/talent last year in the draft (Barzal and Connor). Not enough sandpaper -- need to make other teams not want to play against us.

I know Chiarelli made the Seguin trade, but if you are the assistant gm, you need to speak up vocally. Oh, and Donny, if you are rebuilding, then you trade assets before they expire (Erickson, Chara).

Well I can't disagree with you here. I could be wrong but I thought Claude wanted Seguin and Kessel gone though! Who knows?

 

[chickod]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part Three) - Living in Interesting Times

Need to get rid of Sweeney and Neely

Didn't I just say that? (I know I'm a little more long-winded than most...)

 

[HockeyRef]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part Three) - Living in Interesting Times

Not that it is credible to assert that there is any correlation, but it sure was strange that ever since they had that "ceremony" honoring him as the winningest coach in B's history, the team completely tanked. I can't imagine he did anything significantly differently than he has done his entire coaching career. I get the whole "scapegoat" thing, but in this case, (and I have been ranting about this for decades), this team has had NO offense since the Bobby Orr days. The organization has never adapted to how the game is played now. They still think they can win with "goal prevention." The reality is, if Luongo doesn't completely implode in 2011 (and Thomas doesn't stand on his head), this team has still not won a cup in 44 years. Frankly, I place the blame squarely on "lunch pail Cam." He just doesn't seem to value "skill" players, as if they're some kind of wimps. He'd rather have a no-talent "hard-working" guy who couldn't score if he was shooting at a 12 x 8 net. They'll probably trade Pastenak next...

Just goes to show what happens when you stay with the same old...same old...same old...this is a recording...

 

[chickod]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part Three) - Living in Interesting Times

Just goes to show what happens when you stay with the same old...same old...same old...this is a recording...

Especially when it's ineffective...ineffective...ineffective...

 

[Snively65]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part Three) - Living in Interesting Times

Just to keep this thread on track, there are eery similarities between the Cats and B's: 1) both badly managed (compare UNH poor recruiting and decommits with B's bad drafting, trading, and ridiculously long expensive contracts to those who can no longer keep up on their skates), 2) bad coaching (for example, compare UNH stupid decisions on whom skates on first line and the first PP unit with B's dumb choices on whom gets the puck in shoot outs), 3) blueline players (both terribly inept now), 4) goaltending (if Tirone and Rask do not stand on their heads, their teams have no chance), and 5) no depth on forward lines (UNH had only one line that could score this past year, whereas the B's had two, but rarely in the same game). There is much more, of course, but I am typing on catankerous iPhone.

 

[E.J. Smith]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part Three) - Living in Interesting Times

I get the whole "scapegoat" thing, but in this case, (and I have been ranting about this for decades), this team has had NO offense since the Bobby Orr days. The organization has never adapted to how the game is played now. They still think they can win with "goal prevention."

They're going to finish this season 5th in the league in goals scored. They scored more goals than the Blackhawks this year, and the Lightning, Kings, Canadians, Red Wings, Ducks.

And that's all without any defenseman who can start the offense, move the puck, or contribute in the offensive end.

I'm not happy with the team either but it doesn't help to completely misunderstand their problems just to support some long held, dear to the heart narrative that may have been true 15 years ago but isn't even remotely the case now.

 

[chickod]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part Three) - Living in Interesting Times

They're going to finish this season 5th in the league in goals scored. They scored more goals than the Blackhawks this year, and the Lightning, Kings, Canadians, Red Wings, Ducks.

And that's all without any defenseman who can start the offense, move the puck, or contribute in the offensive end.

I'm not happy with the team either but it doesn't help to completely misunderstand their problems just to support some long held, dear to the heart narrative that may have been true 15 years ago but isn't even remotely the case now.

Whatever you say. How about this...scoring when it MATTERS. Great job yesterday in a game they HAD to win (and even if you say winning wouldn't have guaranteed them making the playoffs, they still had to win first to even have a chance) against a team with nothing to play for. One goal. Wow...those stats really mean a lot...

It doesn't help to score goals if you're going to lose 8-7. It's not being able to score them when you're trailing 2-1 that matters. The goals have to be timely...

 

[E.J. Smith]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part Three) - Living in Interesting Times

Whatever you say. How about this...scoring when it MATTERS. Great job yesterday in a game they HAD to win (and even if you say winning wouldn't have guaranteed them making the playoffs, they still had to win first to even have a chance) against a team with nothing to play for. One goal. Wow...those stats really mean a lot...

It doesn't help to score goals if you're going to lose 8-7. It's not being able to score them when you're trailing 2-1 that matters. The goals have to be timely...

Actually it's not whatever I say, it's whatever NHL.com says. But thank you, I knew - KNEW - when I posted that that someone would come on here and try to tell me it was all just some 82 game, 7 month long anomaly. So thank you for confirming my lack of faith in human nature by not letting facts get in the way of your dearly held belief.

NHL Team Goals For Rank for Bruins
2016 - 5th
2015 - 22nd
2014 - 3rd
2013 - 13th
2012 - 2nd
2011 - 5th

They've finished in the top 5 in league scoring in 4 of the past 6 seasons yet they've "had NO offense since the Bobby Orr era".

I guess it's all one big half decade, hundreds of game anomaly.

 

[chickod]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part Three) - Living in Interesting Times

Actually it's not whatever I say, it's whatever NHL.com says. But thank you, I knew - KNEW - when I posted that that someone would come on here and try to tell me it was all just some 82 game, 7 month long anomaly. So thank you for confirming my lack of faith in human nature by not letting facts get in the way of your dearly held belief.

NHL Team Goals For Rank for Bruins
2016 - 5th
2015 - 22nd
2014 - 3rd
2013 - 13th
2012 - 2nd
2011 - 5th

They've finished in the top 5 in league scoring in 4 of the past 6 seasons yet they've "had NO offense since the Bobby Orr era".

I guess it's all one big half decade, hundreds of game anomaly.

I said "timely"..they won 4 of their last 14 games. The problem with the Bruins is that they play at a high level, but when push comes to shove, they are unable to raise that level to another gear. That's why teams have superstars. The Red Sox have had great players, but until David Ortiz, they never had a player (except for Yaz in '67) that could put the team on their back and carry them to the championship (not that they won it that year, but they came within one game and an exhausted Game 7 starting pitcher). That's why a bunch of workmanlike players isn't good enough. It's great for consistency during the daily grind of a long season, but when the bright lights come on, you need that spectacular player. The Bruins organization wants everyone to fit into the same "mold." The reality in life is that sometimes you have to make exceptions for exceptional people. They're not like the rest of us. If Tiger Woods played a team sport, a good organization would overlook some of his "transgressions" because his value to the team would far outweigh them. But when Tyler Seguin had a few "issues," they got rid of him. When Phil Kessel didn't do whatever it was (I don't know...backcheck or dig in the corners enough or whatever excuse they made up) they wanted, they dumped him. Great. But who electrified the team and almost single-handedly won Game 5 in the 2011 Cup Finals? I don't think it was Shawn Thornton. As North Dakota proved last night, when championships are on the line, you have to have players that can raise their game to that elite level. When the Sioux did that, there was no way the Quinnipiac players could respond. I recall playoff series in the past where the Bruins were summarily drubbed out by the likes of Montreal, Carolina and Philadelphia. All of whom were arguably "not as good" that particular year. But...the reality is, they all raised their games. The Bruins had no other level to go to, because they were already at their maximum. Until this organization abandons the "lunch pail" concept and embraces skilled, elite, game-changing players, who change outcomes with their SPEED and SKILL, scenarios such as what we just witnessed over the past month will continue without abatement. And I don't care WHAT the statistics say. The only statistic that matters is the one that says the Bruins failed to make the playoffs...again.

 

[Snively65]

Actually it's not whatever I say, it's whatever NHL.com says. But thank you, I knew - KNEW - when I posted that that someone would come on here and try to tell me it was all just some 82 game, 7 month long anomaly. So thank you for confirming my lack of faith in human nature by not letting facts get in the way of your dearly held belief.

NHL Team Goals For Rank for Bruins
2016 - 5th
2015 - 22nd
2014 - 3rd
2013 - 13th
2012 - 2nd
2011 - 5th

They've finished in the top 5 in league scoring in 4 of the past 6 seasons yet they've "had NO offense since the Bobby Orr era".

I guess it's all one big half decade, hundreds of game anomaly.

I knew that they were fifth in goals scored, but agree with chickod about inconsistency and bad tming this season. I need to take a closer look at goal distribution to see if I, too, am wrong about contributions from the third and fourth lines.

 

[E.J. Smith]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part Three) - Living in Interesting Times

It's baby steps but at least we've moved from "the Bruins have NO offense, and haven't since Bobby Orr hung them up" to "the Bruins don't have timely offense."

Not that it isn't still ludicrous to think it's anything other than the immobile, untalented defensemen that get beat to their own net by the other team's forwards on a regular basis, constantly puck watch in their own end, lose their man around the net, and can't move the puck with anything even close to resembling speed and authority is the problem.

However, you really need to think about it a little harder if you think timeliness is something that exists over an 82 game sample. 5th in the league in goals is 5th in the league in goals, unless you're trying to tell me the Bs are a complete outlier among the 29 other teams, which just isn't the case.

How many times did they score 10 goals in a game this year? Or 9? Or 8? Or anything above 5? Not many. The goals were spread out pretty evenly, just like every team's goals were.

 

[chickod]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part Three) - Living in Interesting Times

It's baby steps but at least we've moved from "the Bruins have NO offense, and haven't since Bobby Orr hung them up" to "the Bruins don't have timely offense."

Not that it isn't still ludicrous to think it's anything other than the immobile, untalented defensemen that get beat to their own net by the other team's forwards on a regular basis, constantly puck watch in their own end, lose their man around the net, and can't move the puck with anything even close to resembling speed and authority is the problem.

However, you really need to think about it a little harder if you think timeliness is something that exists over an 82 game sample. 5th in the league in goals is 5th in the league in goals, unless you're trying to tell me the Bs are a complete outlier among the 29 other teams, which just isn't the case.

How many times did they score 10 goals in a game this year? Or 9? Or 8? Or anything above 5? Not many. The goals were spread out pretty evenly, just like every team's goals were.

But they had the "best defenseman" in the league for several years (obviously his skill level has significantly declined at this point). He and Seidenberg didn't "move the puck?" So they've won one cup in the last 44 years because their defense is lousy? Is that what you're saying?????

I'll say it again, the fact that their scoring "average" (actually, median, not mean, as you were alluding to when you brought up the fact that they didn't have games with gigantic goal totals to skew the statistic) was high ranked has NOTHING to do with timeliness. It's a large sample size spread out over a long season. That's exactly my point...if they were last in the league in scoring, then one could say "Well, what did you expect? They were last in scoring." The fact that they DID score a lot only supports my contention that they can't raise their level of play when they have to. Again..."timely." They are a good team who consistently underachieves. How can anyone argue otherwise?

 

[Snively65]

It's baby steps but at least we've moved from "the Bruins have NO offense, and haven't since Bobby Orr hung them up" to "the Bruins don't have timely offense."

Not that it isn't still ludicrous to think it's anything other than the immobile, untalented defensemen that get beat to their own net by the other team's forwards on a regular basis, constantly puck watch in their own end, lose their man around the net, and can't move the puck with anything even close to resembling speed and authority is the problem.

However, you really need to think about it a little harder if you think timeliness is something that exists over an 82 game sample. 5th in the league in goals is 5th in the league in goals, unless you're trying to tell me the Bs are a complete outlier among the 29 other teams, which just isn't the case.

How many times did they score 10 goals in a game this year? Or 9? Or 8? Or anything above 5? Not many. The goals were spread out pretty evenly, just like every team's goals were.

Cannot disagree with any of the above. Not much the Cats could do about Kessel, TvR, and Pesce bolting early, but the B's really blew it by not making room for Boychuk and getting nothing in return for Hamilton, arguably their best two D-men. Krug and Chara scored a lot of assists, but could not play defense. The rest of the B's blueline corps was abysmal. Ditto for UNH.

 

[NCAA watcher]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part Three) - Living in Interesting Times

Don't forget that they will suffer the failure to get Matt Barzal and Kyle Connor for years. it's not just the talent you give away, its also the talent you choose not to take.

 

[E.J. Smith]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part Three) - Living in Interesting Times

But they had the "best defenseman" in the league for several years (obviously his skill level has significantly declined at this point). He and Seidenberg didn't "move the puck?" So they've won one cup in the last 44 years because their defense is lousy? Is that what you're saying?????

I'll say it again, the fact that their scoring "average" (actually, median, not mean, as you were alluding to when you brought up the fact that they didn't have games with gigantic goal totals to skew the statistic) was high ranked has NOTHING to do with timeliness. It's a large sample size spread out over a long season. That's exactly my point...if they were last in the league in scoring, then one could say "Well, what did you expect? They were last in scoring." The fact that they DID score a lot only supports my contention that they can't raise their level of play when they have to. Again..."timely." They are a good team who consistently underachieves. How can anyone argue otherwise?

My initial response to that post is a giant What?

Chara and Seidenberg have declined but they were never great puck moving defensemen. Shut down D yes, puck moving no. But yes, I'm saying if you put the shutdown Chara and Seidenberg on this year's team they're in the playoffs. Unfortuantely, age has caught up to them and the Bruins haven't brought in the top pairing stud who would let those 2 move down to the second pairing, play against second and third line forwards, and play 5 fewer minutes per game. They'd be more than adequate, and above the league average, in that role, just not in the top pairing role Boston is still requiring Chara to play.

As far as 44 years, that's another part of the what? What does the team from 2005 have to do with the current team, let alone what does the team from 1987 or 1991 have to do with it. You're clearly overinvested in "the Bs can't play offense" mode that you took on in 1982. Open your mind, take a look around - at reality - and have a rethink on that.

As far as that last part, utter gibberish, not really sure what point you think you're making with that. Maybe you could try again once you've settle down.

 

[E.J. Smith]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part Three) - Living in Interesting Times

Don't forget that they will suffer the failure to get Matt Barzal and Kyle Connor for years. it's not just the talent you give away, its also the talent you choose not to take.

Only time will tell but Conner yes, Barzal meh, not a big fan. I think Senyshyn is going to be a player, Zboril and Debrusk are more mehs. Conner and Senyshyn on a line together would have been fun to watch.

I know it doesn't make up for not taking Conner but getting Carlo and Lauzon later in the draft was nice.

 

[chickod]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part Three) - Living in Interesting Times

What does the team from 2005 have to do with the current team, let alone what does the team from 1987 or 1991 have to do with it.

First of all, I don't have to "settle down." I'm fine. Secondly, to answer your question: management philosophy. There's a reason that certain organizations are successful (Patriots and Kraft are a good example). The style that the Bruins management champions (pun intended) does not lend itself to winning cups. "Regular season" consistency, yes. "Grinding it out" is good in those long stretches where sometimes more talented players take "time off" because the games just don't mean as much. But, as I said, the "grinders" tend to not be able to elevate their game. You need the occasional "mercurial" star...and like all exception people, yes, they tend to be eccentric. You have to be able to tolerate that if you want to cultivate that special talent. The Bruins have NO tolerance for that type of player, hence, their inability to raise their game when it matters. I don't know how many times I have to say this. They scored ONE goal yesterday in the biggest game of the year (and before you say "You have singled out ONE game," their ability to finish declined during their season-ending collapse). (Oh, and by the way, look who scored it. Pasternak. A budding star. Let's see if they trade him too. As Bob Lobel used to say, "Why can't we get players like that?") So what good does the "5th in the league in scoring" do now?

And, I'm done...because this is a college hockey thread anyway and I'm not going to continue this pointless argument because neither side is going to give in...have a great day!

 

[E.J. Smith]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part Three) - Living in Interesting Times

There's a reason that certain organizations are successful (Patriots and Kraft are a good example).

Yes, it's called hitting the all time lottery with the 199th pick in the draft. Hiring Belichick, too. But when those 2 are gone, let's see just how great the Krafts are.

They scored ONE goal yesterday in the biggest game of the year

I love how you just look past they gave up SIX goals yesterday in the biggest game of the year. Against a team without Lazar, Stone, or Turris. Nothing but constant D to D to D to D as they slowly sagged back into their own zone, no quick outlet passes, no beating guys on the rush, no jumping up into the play. Just passive nothingness, with and without the puck.

 

[chickod]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part Three) - Living in Interesting Times

Yes, it's called hitting the all time lottery with the 199th pick in the draft. Hiring Belichick, too. But when those 2 are gone, let's see just how great the Krafts are.

I love how you just look past they gave up SIX goals yesterday in the biggest game of the year. Against a team without Lazar, Stone, or Turris. Nothing but constant D to D to D to D as they slowly sagged back into their own zone, no quick outlet passes, no beating guys on the rush, no jumping up into the play. Just passive nothingness, with and without the puck.

I know...sad how they didn't whip those passes to a breaking Seguin, or Guy LaFleur. After all, with all the players they have that can really fly and generate speed through the neutral zone, I can't imagine why they EVER hold on to the puck...

 

[E.J. Smith]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part Three) - Living in Interesting Times

I know...sad how they didn't whip those passes to a breaking Seguin, or Guy LaFleur. After all, with all the players they have that can really fly and generate speed through the neutral zone, I can't imagine why they EVER hold on to the puck...

Bergeron, Krejci, Spooner, Pasternak, Marchand, Erikson, yeah, no one to pass the puck to in that group. I'm freaking sorry, if your defensemen require nothing but HOF talent on the other end in order to make a good breakout pass, you're kinda eph'd.

Guy Lafleur, lmao! Man you really are stuck in the 70s. Probably killed you to erase Ratelle and put in Sequin as the other player, huh?