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UNH Wildcats - '10 Playoff Edition
- Thread starter C-H-C
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New member
Re: UNH Wildcats - '10 Playoff Edition
Funny part of it is BillB, I have received about half a dozen positive reps from UNH fans who are sick of you!!
You and Onion man should be a great fit....I seem to recall a post from him showing his love for obaMao!
Funny part of it is BillB, I have received about half a dozen positive reps from UNH fans who are sick of you!!
You and Onion man should be a great fit....I seem to recall a post from him showing his love for obaMao!
Wilsonpicard
Registered User
Re: UNH Wildcats - '10 Playoff Edition
Didnt the mccarey goal and the henroion goal against BC help get UNH in the dance ... o well how soon they forget. maybe next year ...
Didnt the mccarey goal and the henroion goal against BC help get UNH in the dance ... o well how soon they forget. maybe next year ...
billb
New member
Re: UNH Wildcats - '10 Playoff Edition
It's tough against a focused team to come back in the playoffs from a two goal deficit, but UNH had to do it without the benefit of a decent power play.
I don't think Mr. Umile et. al., misjudged RIT. I do think they did not expect to be down by two goals and to be playing catch-up.
The unfortunate part is that the game was tied after one, 1-1, and UNH gave up on a defensive lapse the second goal, and then on a total mental lack of focus the third nearly off the following faceoff from center ice.
It's tough against a focused team to come back in the playoffs from a two goal deficit, but UNH had to do it without the benefit of a decent power play.
I don't think Mr. Umile et. al., misjudged RIT. I do think they did not expect to be down by two goals and to be playing catch-up.
Re: UNH Wildcats - '10 Playoff Edition
I don't know what you're smokin' Ambrose but if you think UNH is going to bring in five defensemen who are first round draft picks you're crazier than I thought you were. Same goes for Watcher. I've said this before and I'll say it again UNH needs to find diamonds in the rough and make sure the best local talent doesn't slip through their hands (Rogers from Mich comes to mind). All I can say is that if RIT can find the diamonds in the rough then so should UNH be able to. Add these to the handful of top recruits we do land every couple of years, keep them for all four years and we'll be competitive.
I don't know what you're smokin' Ambrose but if you think UNH is going to bring in five defensemen who are first round draft picks you're crazier than I thought you were. Same goes for Watcher. I've said this before and I'll say it again UNH needs to find diamonds in the rough and make sure the best local talent doesn't slip through their hands (Rogers from Mich comes to mind). All I can say is that if RIT can find the diamonds in the rough then so should UNH be able to. Add these to the handful of top recruits we do land every couple of years, keep them for all four years and we'll be competitive.
irishfan85
New member
Re: UNH Wildcats - '10 Playoff Edition
Does anyone remember how John Doherty turned out for UNH? He works in a factory in Beverly now. He was once a second round pick by Toronto and played occasionally for UNH for a year and a half. It isn't always about high draft picks.
Does anyone remember how John Doherty turned out for UNH? He works in a factory in Beverly now. He was once a second round pick by Toronto and played occasionally for UNH for a year and a half. It isn't always about high draft picks.
Re: UNH Wildcats - '10 Playoff Edition
Good catching up at the Pearl Street Pub both days in Albany, Greg. Agree with most of your post, except for these two items: 1) UNH fans got taste buds wetted with trip to FF at the Gahden in 1998, 2) Sean Collins does not measure up? 20G-25A, 45P; 22-8, 30; 16-26, 42; 19-37, 56; total G's 77, total A's 96, total Pts 173 not too shabby.
Good catching up at the Pearl Street Pub both days in Albany, Greg. Agree with most of your post, except for these two items: 1) UNH fans got taste buds wetted with trip to FF at the Gahden in 1998, 2) Sean Collins does not measure up? 20G-25A, 45P; 22-8, 30; 16-26, 42; 19-37, 56; total G's 77, total A's 96, total Pts 173 not too shabby.
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Re: UNH Wildcats - '10 Playoff Edition
I think it is a combination of factors, of which include the oft mentioned fanbase becoming spoiled by success, and the decline in on-ice performance resulting in less passion. Another cliche would be the young generation's ADD, growing up in an increasingly fast changing world, and myriad options competing for their time and interest.
But I think a bigger factor is the sports background of the present day student.
Current students don't remember Bourque, Neely, and the Bruins of the those days. Current students were around 9-12 years old when Bourque finally got his Stanley Cup with Colorado. They mostly remember the Bruins being mediocre at best.
Current students have been raised in an era in which the NFL and college football dominates the sports landscape, and which the Patriots have been a large presence in that spotlight.
Honestly, they really don't remember the Patriots ever being bad. Think about it....the worst year most of them will remember is Belichick's first year (5-11), and possibly Carroll's last (8-8).
I think they are predisposed towards football, which is an entirely different culture than that of hockey. I see it at UNH football games too. When I attended UNH there was NO student presence at Cowell. And yet hockey was still fairly well represented.
Granted, the football team was pretty bad back then. But the current student, imo, will gravitate towards football with everything else being equal. The football team's recent success only reinforces that trend.
JMO.
I think it is a combination of factors, of which include the oft mentioned fanbase becoming spoiled by success, and the decline in on-ice performance resulting in less passion. Another cliche would be the young generation's ADD, growing up in an increasingly fast changing world, and myriad options competing for their time and interest.
But I think a bigger factor is the sports background of the present day student.
Current students don't remember Bourque, Neely, and the Bruins of the those days. Current students were around 9-12 years old when Bourque finally got his Stanley Cup with Colorado. They mostly remember the Bruins being mediocre at best.
Current students have been raised in an era in which the NFL and college football dominates the sports landscape, and which the Patriots have been a large presence in that spotlight.
Honestly, they really don't remember the Patriots ever being bad. Think about it....the worst year most of them will remember is Belichick's first year (5-11), and possibly Carroll's last (8-8).
I think they are predisposed towards football, which is an entirely different culture than that of hockey. I see it at UNH football games too. When I attended UNH there was NO student presence at Cowell. And yet hockey was still fairly well represented.
Granted, the football team was pretty bad back then. But the current student, imo, will gravitate towards football with everything else being equal. The football team's recent success only reinforces that trend.
JMO.
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Re: UNH Wildcats - '10 Playoff Edition
I disagree that RIT trapped UNH.
In fact, UNH was having such trouble in transition that I made it a point to watch what RIT was doing. And it was a far cry from the 1-2-2, soft forecheck that UVM used to stifle UNH.
RIT was very aggressive, often sending in 2 forecheckers, pressuring the UNH D deep in the zone.
UNH couldn't handle the pressure, leading to bad passes and turnovers.
I was also surprised the night before, as it seemed that Denver played a more passive defense/forecheck than RIT.
It was surprising and encouraging, imo, that despite the talent discrepancy, that RIT played so aggressive and didn't resort to trapping.
I disagree that RIT trapped UNH.
In fact, UNH was having such trouble in transition that I made it a point to watch what RIT was doing. And it was a far cry from the 1-2-2, soft forecheck that UVM used to stifle UNH.
RIT was very aggressive, often sending in 2 forecheckers, pressuring the UNH D deep in the zone.
UNH couldn't handle the pressure, leading to bad passes and turnovers.
I was also surprised the night before, as it seemed that Denver played a more passive defense/forecheck than RIT.
It was surprising and encouraging, imo, that despite the talent discrepancy, that RIT played so aggressive and didn't resort to trapping.
unhpuckfan2001
Local Fire Extinguisher
Re: UNH Wildcats - '10 Playoff Edition
I haven't been on the thread since the weekend very much; I try to let my emotions cool down.
Curses on anybody on here who said UNH would advance to the Frozen Four after steamrolling Cornell; clearly, RIT was overlooked by too many people associated with the Wildcats.
Lots of discussion about game planning, coaching, players, etc.
The game against Cornell was their best, all season, hands down.
The game against Rochester was possibly their worst.
The difference?
UNH wanted to beat Cornell; they expected to beat RIT.
The difference in attitude showed clearly on the ice each night.
Chock it up to coaching, captains, whatever, but there was no energy from this team on Saturday night, after they skated hard all night long Friday night. UNH: Bi-polar playoff hockey.
I haven't been on the thread since the weekend very much; I try to let my emotions cool down.
Curses on anybody on here who said UNH would advance to the Frozen Four after steamrolling Cornell; clearly, RIT was overlooked by too many people associated with the Wildcats.
Lots of discussion about game planning, coaching, players, etc.
The game against Cornell was their best, all season, hands down.
The game against Rochester was possibly their worst.
The difference?
UNH wanted to beat Cornell; they expected to beat RIT.
The difference in attitude showed clearly on the ice each night.
Chock it up to coaching, captains, whatever, but there was no energy from this team on Saturday night, after they skated hard all night long Friday night. UNH: Bi-polar playoff hockey.
Re: UNH Wildcats - '10 Playoff Edition
I agree with that statement.
UNH wanted to beat Cornell; they expected to beat RIT.
Don't forget Denver made the same mistake.
I agree with that statement.
UNH wanted to beat Cornell; they expected to beat RIT.
Don't forget Denver made the same mistake.
I haven't been on the thread since the
weekend very much; I try to let my emotions cool down.
Curses on anybody on here who said UNH would advance to the Frozen Four after steamrolling Cornell; clearly, RIT was overlooked by too many people associated with the Wildcats.
Lots of discussion about game planning, coaching, players, etc.
The game against Cornell was their best, all season, hands down.
The game against Rochester was possibly their worst.
The difference?
UNH wanted to beat Cornell; they expected to beat RIT.
The difference in attitude showed clearly on the ice each night.
Chock it up to coaching, captains, whatever, but there was no energy from this team on Saturday night, after they skated hard all night long Friday night. UNH: Bi-polar playoff hockey.
Re: UNH Wildcats - '10 Playoff Edition
It looks like Bobby Butler will skate in his first NHL game tonight against the Washington Capitals:
"Senators general manager Bryan Murray expects that future to begin arriving soon, indicating to reporters earlier today that he hopes Butler can see action in "at least a couple of games" before the end of the regular season.
"It'll give him a chance to see what he needs to do over the summer and we get a chance to see him at this level," said Murray. "When I saw him in the NCAA playoffs, he was a very good college player. He's a young guy who will need some time but very definitely, a guy who has the potential to be a goal scorer in the National Hockey League.
"He's got good hands ... and looks like a guy that has a chance to play. But again, it's time. It takes games in the league. It's a different game than he's used to playing, with bigger, stronger people against him. We know that giving him a little taste (of the NHL) now will be important for him."
http://senators.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=523143&cmpid=rss-brodie
It looks like Bobby Butler will skate in his first NHL game tonight against the Washington Capitals:
"Senators general manager Bryan Murray expects that future to begin arriving soon, indicating to reporters earlier today that he hopes Butler can see action in "at least a couple of games" before the end of the regular season.
"It'll give him a chance to see what he needs to do over the summer and we get a chance to see him at this level," said Murray. "When I saw him in the NCAA playoffs, he was a very good college player. He's a young guy who will need some time but very definitely, a guy who has the potential to be a goal scorer in the National Hockey League.
"He's got good hands ... and looks like a guy that has a chance to play. But again, it's time. It takes games in the league. It's a different game than he's used to playing, with bigger, stronger people against him. We know that giving him a little taste (of the NHL) now will be important for him."
http://senators.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=523143&cmpid=rss-brodie
thecomicbookguy
Nobody.
Re: UNH Wildcats - '10 Playoff Edition
I think you are correct about RIT, and I didn't mean to imply that they were trapping, simply that their aggressive play clogged passing lanes and forced UNH to make bad decisions.
In either case, the effect is the same - you leave UNH with no room to maneuver; one is in the neutral zone, one is in the defensive zone, but both are crazy effective against UNH's style of play. And in either case, that style needs to be able to adapt.
I think you are correct about RIT, and I didn't mean to imply that they were trapping, simply that their aggressive play clogged passing lanes and forced UNH to make bad decisions.
In either case, the effect is the same - you leave UNH with no room to maneuver; one is in the neutral zone, one is in the defensive zone, but both are crazy effective against UNH's style of play. And in either case, that style needs to be able to adapt.
Greg Ambrose
Registered User
Re: UNH Wildcats - '10 Playoff Edition
Likewise my friend. As for Collins, he proves it is not aways about the numbers. He had way more career points than Butler (as did B. Hemingway), but did he ever look like he could carry the team on his back. Some guys take on the role, others don't.
tCBG, UNH defeated Cornell in the ECAC semis in '77 and '79. The lost to BU in the finals 8-6 (kind of like BC/UVM) the first time, but beat Dartmouth 3-2 for their only ECAC championship in '79.
Likewise my friend. As for Collins, he proves it is not aways about the numbers. He had way more career points than Butler (as did B. Hemingway), but did he ever look like he could carry the team on his back. Some guys take on the role, others don't.
tCBG, UNH defeated Cornell in the ECAC semis in '77 and '79. The lost to BU in the finals 8-6 (kind of like BC/UVM) the first time, but beat Dartmouth 3-2 for their only ECAC championship in '79.
5IslandsWildcat
Registered User
Re: UNH Wildcats - '10 Playoff Edition
Good statement and like my prediction before UVM quarters that the team that skated hardest would win. During RIT game, even in first period, my wife and I saw that RIT beat races to loose pucks and gave UNH less time to receive and handle passes. Simple stuff that seems to determine winners game after game.
Good statement and like my prediction before UVM quarters that the team that skated hardest would win. During RIT game, even in first period, my wife and I saw that RIT beat races to loose pucks and gave UNH less time to receive and handle passes. Simple stuff that seems to determine winners game after game.
WILD E WOLVERINE
Registered User
Re: UNH Wildcats - '10 Playoff Edition
Seems the west is forgotten on this thread when coaching is brought up - Red Bereneson, who it could easily be argued at the very least is in the same group as the three mentioned above (Parker, York, Umile) will in all likelihood retire after next season. When Red and Parker leave there will be some huge holes to fill.
Seems the west is forgotten on this thread when coaching is brought up - Red Bereneson, who it could easily be argued at the very least is in the same group as the three mentioned above (Parker, York, Umile) will in all likelihood retire after next season. When Red and Parker leave there will be some huge holes to fill.
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Re: UNH Wildcats - '10 Playoff Edition
Re "the trap"
From my seat UNH's problems with the trap are simple. They don't have an offense that works well playing "half ice". UNH generates its offense from transition the trap limits this. In the playoffs there are fewer transition opportunities.
This year I have seen them get better at breaking the trap in center ice by either have the D skate it or passing from forward to D then D to D and coming up the other side. Both strategies have been effective.
The problem comes when they cross the red line or get in zone. UNH is terrible at the dump and chase, they rarely get the puck back when dumping. If they have it clean in zone it is like they don't know what to do with it. Same with when they win a faceoff, which they don’t win often enough, no idea what to do.
Example from RIT game. Sislo gets the puck in zone and goes behind the net, to this point everything is fine. Burke and Leblanc go to the front of the net, still all good. Sislo starts up the other wall but instead of putting the puck out front he keeps skating. Eventually Sislo turns the puck over at the top of the circles, never got a shot away either bad angle or through the screen. Sislo tried to make it too pretty and hence too complicated. When there are guys in front of the net, UNH doesn’t get the puck in there. Many times it is the D-men winding up for a shot, that get blocked, instead of just getting it in there with a quick wrist shot.
Same problem on the power play by the way. I don’t think they ever got the puck on a dump and chase on the power play, they don’t know how to dump and chase. Same on in zone on the PP, they don’t seem to know how to run the offense in zone. Nobody moves around to make the box flex. Even when Burke is setting a screen they can the puck past the first guy, normally because they are trying to take too big a shot.
Re "the trap"
From my seat UNH's problems with the trap are simple. They don't have an offense that works well playing "half ice". UNH generates its offense from transition the trap limits this. In the playoffs there are fewer transition opportunities.
This year I have seen them get better at breaking the trap in center ice by either have the D skate it or passing from forward to D then D to D and coming up the other side. Both strategies have been effective.
The problem comes when they cross the red line or get in zone. UNH is terrible at the dump and chase, they rarely get the puck back when dumping. If they have it clean in zone it is like they don't know what to do with it. Same with when they win a faceoff, which they don’t win often enough, no idea what to do.
Example from RIT game. Sislo gets the puck in zone and goes behind the net, to this point everything is fine. Burke and Leblanc go to the front of the net, still all good. Sislo starts up the other wall but instead of putting the puck out front he keeps skating. Eventually Sislo turns the puck over at the top of the circles, never got a shot away either bad angle or through the screen. Sislo tried to make it too pretty and hence too complicated. When there are guys in front of the net, UNH doesn’t get the puck in there. Many times it is the D-men winding up for a shot, that get blocked, instead of just getting it in there with a quick wrist shot.
Same problem on the power play by the way. I don’t think they ever got the puck on a dump and chase on the power play, they don’t know how to dump and chase. Same on in zone on the PP, they don’t seem to know how to run the offense in zone. Nobody moves around to make the box flex. Even when Burke is setting a screen they can the puck past the first guy, normally because they are trying to take too big a shot.
billb
New member
Re: UNH Wildcats - '10 Playoff Edition
Speaking of coaches' demeanor behind the bench, I can hardly think of Mr. Umile doing this:
http://www.bing.com/videos/watch/video/on-ice-meltdown-by-coach/6dumw2u
Speaking of coaches' demeanor behind the bench, I can hardly think of Mr. Umile doing this:
http://www.bing.com/videos/watch/video/on-ice-meltdown-by-coach/6dumw2u
Re: UNH Wildcats - '10 Playoff Edition
Q. 1. Who is responsible for correcting this? I would assume that Umile is, ultimately, but is this stuff typically handled by the assistants?
Q. 2. Assuming that the coaches recognize these problems and devise strategies to resolve them, why don't the players follow through?
Q. 3. Refer back to Q. 1.
Q. 4. Does the size of the ice surface at the Whitt come into play in this discussion? (After watching UVM and other teams slow down and frustrate UNH on the Lake this year as well as in the past, I'd have to think not, that a bigger surface should allow a skating team like UNH more room to move.)
These issues aren't exclusive to this year; the poor PP has been a problem for a while now, as has the ineffectiveness at countering the trap. So, (coming from a person with no hockey experience save for being a fan,)
Q. 1. Who is responsible for correcting this? I would assume that Umile is, ultimately, but is this stuff typically handled by the assistants?
Q. 2. Assuming that the coaches recognize these problems and devise strategies to resolve them, why don't the players follow through?
Q. 3. Refer back to Q. 1.
Q. 4. Does the size of the ice surface at the Whitt come into play in this discussion? (After watching UVM and other teams slow down and frustrate UNH on the Lake this year as well as in the past, I'd have to think not, that a bigger surface should allow a skating team like UNH more room to move.)
Re: UNH Wildcats - '10 Playoff Edition
My answers and I am far from an expert. Honestly I remember what I see really well and can think about it / analize it later.
Well the PP has been on a down hill since a certain coach went to the womens team. Some of that is the talent of the players - watch Wisco it is all about the players. Better players better PP. Some is system - watch Maine or MC as they do a great job of moving and players down low - which I am fairly certain has changed since Borek arrived.
IMO two different issues going on:
1) getting through a neutral zone trap. I think they improved leaps and bounds this year on this catagory. Some of that is the talent of the blueliner (which of all areas I think is the one on the way up). In the past UNH didn't dare pass the puck back to the D. Now they do and it has worked.
2) doing something productive with the puck once in the O-zone - still a big problem particularly this year.
Umile is head coach so it is his job. But he has many other jobs too - admin, pr etc.
In general my understanding of UNH coaching break down
Umile - Head Coach and Offense
Lassonde - Goalies and D-men, some recruiting
Borek (ad McCloskey before him) - Offense and Recruiting
I would guess they need more practice. You are what you habitually do. This is especially true in pressure situations. Many stories out there from the days of revolvers of Cops in gun fights found dead with 6 shell casing in their hand. When practicing shooting with a revolver nobody want to pick up the brass so you catch it and put it in your pocket. That slows down the reload and when under pressure you do what you practice.
see answer to question 1.
I don't think so, maybe a little. However, these players have grown up on the smaller surface so it shouldn't take much to adjust back. There are many WCHA teams that play on the big sheet.
Honestly I think it is just a lame excuse. If they are that concerned they can use other ice in the area for special games. Either that or practice cross ice in the Whitt (which they do) so that everything is even more compact.
Just my thoughts
My answers and I am far from an expert. Honestly I remember what I see really well and can think about it / analize it later.
Well the PP has been on a down hill since a certain coach went to the womens team. Some of that is the talent of the players - watch Wisco it is all about the players. Better players better PP. Some is system - watch Maine or MC as they do a great job of moving and players down low - which I am fairly certain has changed since Borek arrived.
IMO two different issues going on:
1) getting through a neutral zone trap. I think they improved leaps and bounds this year on this catagory. Some of that is the talent of the blueliner (which of all areas I think is the one on the way up). In the past UNH didn't dare pass the puck back to the D. Now they do and it has worked.
2) doing something productive with the puck once in the O-zone - still a big problem particularly this year.
Umile is head coach so it is his job. But he has many other jobs too - admin, pr etc.
In general my understanding of UNH coaching break down
Umile - Head Coach and Offense
Lassonde - Goalies and D-men, some recruiting
Borek (ad McCloskey before him) - Offense and Recruiting
I would guess they need more practice. You are what you habitually do. This is especially true in pressure situations. Many stories out there from the days of revolvers of Cops in gun fights found dead with 6 shell casing in their hand. When practicing shooting with a revolver nobody want to pick up the brass so you catch it and put it in your pocket. That slows down the reload and when under pressure you do what you practice.
see answer to question 1.
I don't think so, maybe a little. However, these players have grown up on the smaller surface so it shouldn't take much to adjust back. There are many WCHA teams that play on the big sheet.
Honestly I think it is just a lame excuse. If they are that concerned they can use other ice in the area for special games. Either that or practice cross ice in the Whitt (which they do) so that everything is even more compact.
Just my thoughts
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