UNH Wildcats - '10 Playoff Edition

[billb]

Re: UNH Wildcats - '10 Playoff Edition

This is a very serious question to the UNH fans who dislike Umile. Who would you hire to come in and take the job, replacing Umile?
However, all of this is a moot conversation. Coach Umile isn't going anywhere.

With all due respect, I see you haven't been around for many years (BTW FYP), because we all already know that Mr. Umile isn't going anywhere. I see him as I see having a wife who has some faults: you still love her, but sometimes you don't like her because of her shortcomings, even though you're perfect, and you accept her for what she is.
One interesting hypothetical question might be, rather than whom do I want to replace Mr. Umile, who do you think would apply for the job if it were available? I think it would be a position to which many would aspire.

 

[Got 6 Want More]

Re: UNH Wildcats - '10 Playoff Edition

Any chance this happens soon?

No, but if I have to watch much more Brown hockey I might wish for it. Zzzzzzzzz!

 

[Onion Man]

Re: UNH Wildcats - '10 Playoff Edition

No, but if I have to watch much more Brown hockey I might wish for it. Zzzzzzzzz!

Somehow, the lowly Brown Bears managed to shut out the greatest team in the history of Planet Earth 2 weeks ago in New Haven. They did this without Joe Marsh, the greatest coach ever and possible 2nd coming of Jesus, behind the bench.

 

[RockTheWhit]

Re: UNH Wildcats - '10 Playoff Edition

While there has been a lot of talk about replacing Umile (as there is after every season), I fall in the camp of looking toward new young assistants to sell the program and take over for as head coach when Dick hangs up the whistle a few years down the road. A lot of people have mentioned Foley who has done a good job recruiting at Harvard in recent years. I like the idea of a former UNH player who is passionate about the program and will be able to portray this excitement to recruits. Someone that comes from this mold who comes to my mind is Tim Walsh, who was a role player on the excellent UNH teams of the late 90's. Walsh has spent the last few years as the head coach at Bow High School and just coached the team to their first state championship. He is a very good young leader who loves the game and coaching and is still close with the UNH staff.

 

[irishfan85]

Re: UNH Wildcats - '10 Playoff Edition

Joe Marsh is quoted in a recent St. Lawrence Magazine saying: "and this is the reason I now know I will never coach anywhere else!"

I do think he has built some great candidates though such as Chris Wells or Bob Prier. Other guys that would deserve a look is Don Vaughan at Colgate or maybe even Monarchs Head Coach and former Clarkson Coach Mark Morris.

I'll believe until I die, Marsh did build the best team in the country in 1988 and fell short in OT. That he did that without scholarships, or even a storied tradition is nothing short of amazing.

York is in his mid-60's....he'll never coach anywhere but BC.

This is really the point, who is out there that is better than Umile who offers a better chance than Umile of winning at title? That is a pretty empty hat to pick names from!

Got 6, I was just throwing out the names of most of those guys to say that some of the best candidates would not want the job. Marsh is an alum of UNH so I'd say he would be the only of the older candidates that would make any sense.

My point really is though I don't see any viable replacement that would be better than Umile. He's had one sub-500 record and that was all the way back in 95-96. Maine, BC and BU have had multiple sub 500 records since then.

 

[i'zonprize]

Re: UNH Wildcats - '10 Playoff Edition

I'm not remotely suggesting Umile departs, but down the line it's most certain he will eventually leave. As and alum, Ireally like the idea of a former UNH'er someone who is tied to the team, has a history etc.. Foley seems like a great eventual candidate.. but how about that Mowers kid? He's got a lot of pro experience and helped lead UNH to a FF birth as well. Does anyone know if he's interested in coaching down in the future?

 

[thecomicbookguy]

Re: UNH Wildcats - '10 Playoff Edition

I hope all the non-UNH fans who thought UNH would make the Frozen Four and (Dear Lord!) win it all learned a valuable lesson this weekend - NEVER PICK UNH.

Haven't read since before the RIT game, and I'm not going to bother reading very far back. That game sucked. I could barely watch after the 4th RIT goal (listened to the TV, looked up occasionally, didn't like what I saw). I hate being right - hot goalie, hungrier team, better gameplan.

Let me ask UNH fans a serious question, what NCAA programs would you rather call your allegiance to or what programs are you jealous of? From a neutral observer, the only programs UNH can be jealous of are BC, BU, Maine, Michigan, Michigan State, Wisconsin, Denver, North Dakota, and Minnesota.

No other team has won a NCAA championship since 1994 (the last LSSU title). No other teams have consistently produced similar results without post-season success like UNH (maybe Colorado College).

UNH plays in a great building, a great atmosphere (used to be better), wins 20 games almost every year, NCAA tournament bound almost every year. You can follow some of your ex-players in the NHL.

I can see your frustration, but Dick Umile is an alum. He is working his butt off to win a NCAA championship, and I can guarantee you he wants it more than any of you. He is not some outsider. I believe he deserves the admiration of the UNH faithful.

Teams I'm jealous of? Let's see...Maine, UND, BC, Minnesota, Denver, Wisconsin, Michigan State, BU, and quite possibly either RIT or Miami. I'm a UNH fan through-and-through, and that will never change, nor will my enjoyment of UNH hockey for however long the season lasts. However, I can't help but watch other teams celebrate the ultimate success at this level, and not feel an emptiness in the pit of my stomach knowing that it's not my team out there, and might not ever be.

I'm not one to call for Umile to be fired, or for him to step down. Had Jason Krog put just a touch less on his shot in OT and put the puck under the crossbar instead of right into it, UNH would have a title, and we wouldn't be questioning Umile's coaching abilities. I think all of your points (as well as many others that have been brought up in Umile's defense) are valid.

That said, my big question still lingering in my mind from Saturday night - as well as the HE Quarterfinals - is: Why can't Umile's teams ever beat the trap? Beating UNH is as simple as clogging up the middle. Vermont did it (and very well could have won 4 of the 6 games they played against UNH this year), RIT did it, Cornell did not (or, if they tried, Umile apparently owns Schafer). Give UNH less room to move, and they get flustered, press too much, and make mental errors as they keep trying to play their transition game instead of adjusting to what the other team is doing. I suppose some years they have the talent to do this (or, the team they're playing is bad enough that the trap is ineffective), but they haven't the past few years.

Is this a matter of needing new assistants who can help gameplan/implement new strategies? Is it a matter of the head coach needing to adjust his thinking about playoff hockey? It's been said before, but UNH plays pretty much the same way, game in, game out. October, February, March, it's the same game. Good opposing coaches recognize this and make adjustments.

There once was a poster named Clark Hislop Cox
Who cried because his program is on the rocks
He loves Whistlin Dickie U.
Even though he coaches like poo
Which is what comes out of his mouth when he talks.

Classy, as always.

 

[billb]

Re: UNH Wildcats - '10 Playoff Edition

That said, my big question still lingering in my mind from Saturday night - as well as the HE Quarterfinals - is: Why can't Umile's teams ever beat the trap?

About five years ago I posted the same question, asking why teams were coming into The Whitt and beating UNH (using the trap) and Mr. Umile never reacted to the opponents' style of play. Gibber replied to me, we exchanged a few posts, and the discourse ended when DaBigBadCow come in and asked Gibber why do you even respond to this guy? So the subject was dropped. Fortunately, DaBigBadCow has dropped out of sight, too.
Mr. Norton addressed the trap subject one night. He said it's easy to beat the trap. Everyone has to skate and go into the zone with the puck. No dump and run.
Mr. Umile, as I've said before, is as a chess player who does not watch and react to what his opponent does: he is doomed to failure.

 

[adash1411]

Re: UNH Wildcats - '10 Playoff Edition

I think Butler is a "cup of coffee with an NHL team" type of guy. Even the best UNH players over the years (Krog, Haydar, etc) never really did much in the NHL on a regular basis. I'd love to see him do well, but realistically he'll be a career minor leaguer.

Don't count out Butler just yet -at every level he's played, he's adapted and contributed at a high level. He was always a solid player until he really broke out this year, so I don't think he's peaked in college like some of those guys you mentioned. Based on the trends of his career, it's just the next step in his development as a player. Is he going to be a superstar at the NHL level? Probably not, though that doesn't make him any different than the majority of the players in the league. Can he be a role player? I wouldn't bet against him. He's proved doubters wrong everywhere he's played. And he seems like the kind of player who has his head screwed on right, which is a very important part of succeeding in any professional sport.

And as for the comparisons to Hemingway, being used to suggest his play won't translate in the NHL, former teammate Mike Radja had this to say about Butler in a 2007 interview with Inside College Hockey: “At first I thought he reminded me of a Brett Hemingway type player, but he's a little more aggressive, digging and banging in the corners, than Brett. He’s a different player, I’m not sure I’ve ever played with anyone like him. He’s got something special about his game.”

 

[thecomicbookguy]

Re: UNH Wildcats - '10 Playoff Edition

Don't count out Butler just yet -at every level he's played, he's adapted and contributed at a high level. He was always a solid player until he really broke out this year, so I don't think he's peaked in college like some of those guys you mentioned. Based on the trends of his career, it's just the next step in his development as a player. Is he going to be a superstar at the NHL level? Probably not, though that doesn't make him any different than the majority of the players in the league. Can he be a role player? I wouldn't bet against him. He's proved doubters wrong everywhere he's played. And he seems like the kind of player who has his head screwed on right, which is a very important part of succeeding in any professional sport.

And as for the comparisons to Hemingway, being used to suggest his play won't translate in the NHL, former teammate Mike Radja had this to say about Butler in a 2007 interview with Inside College Hockey: “At first I thought he reminded me of a Brett Hemingway type player, but he's a little more aggressive, digging and banging in the corners, than Brett. He’s a different player, I’m not sure I’ve ever played with anyone like him. He’s got something special about his game.”

I don't like the Brett Hemingway comparison for the simple fact that Butler has way more "hockey sense/awareness" than Brett ever did. He earned the nickname "Intheway" for a reason, and it wasn't for blocking opposing teams' shots.

 

[Got 6 Want More]

Re: UNH Wildcats - '10 Playoff Edition

Somehow, the lowly Brown Bears managed to shut out the greatest team in the history of Planet Earth 2 weeks ago in New Haven. They did this without Joe Marsh, the greatest coach ever and possible 2nd coming of Jesus, behind the bench.

Wow!!! Awesome!!! What did you have to do with it besides jumping on the bandwagon and trolling on USCHO?

 

[Onion Man]

Re: UNH Wildcats - '10 Playoff Edition

Wow!!! Awesome!!! What did you have to do with it besides jumping on the bandwagon and trolling on USCHO?

Says the clown SLU fan on a UNH thread. Question, is there any thread you haven't posted on non stop or did the real SLU fans kick you out for being annoying?

 

[Got 6 Want More]

Re: UNH Wildcats - '10 Playoff Edition

Got 6, I was just throwing out the names of most of those guys to say that some of the best candidates would not want the job. Marsh is an alum of UNH so I'd say he would be the only of the older candidates that would make any sense.

My point really is though I don't see any viable replacement that would be better than Umile. He's had one sub-500 record and that was all the way back in 95-96. Maine, BC and BU have had multiple sub 500 records since then.

I understand. I agree with you. As I said before, I'd be thrilled with an RS championship, a trip to the NCAA's almost every year and a 96% full arena which I believe is tops in Hockey East.

I also agree with all of you wanting the next UNH coach to be an alum that bleeds blue, afterall the greatest coach in the college game today is a UNH alum!

 

[thecomicbookguy]

Re: UNH Wildcats - '10 Playoff Edition

Not sure what this Brown/SLU ****ing match has to do with UNH hockey...

 

[billb]

Re: UNH Wildcats - '10 Playoff Edition

I also agree with all of you wanting the next UNH coach to be an alum that bleeds blue, afterall the greatest coach in the college game today is a UNH alum!

Sorry to disappoint you, Got6, but Mr. York graduated from BC in 1967.

 

[Onion Man]

Re: UNH Wildcats - '10 Playoff Edition

Not sure what this Brown/SLU ****ing match has to do with UNH hockey...

Sorry for the hijack, just trying to keep this fool in reality. I'll stay out from now on, but I doubt he will.

 

[billb]

Re: UNH Wildcats - '10 Playoff Edition

Not sure what this Brown/SLU ****ing match has to do with UNH hockey...

This plague of locusts has been upon us all weekend.
Not you, Onion.

 

[Greg Ambrose]

Re: UNH Wildcats - '10 Playoff Edition

Like tCBG, this is my first look at USCHO since Saturday prior to the RIT game. I was out there for both, thus avoiding the nauseous duo of Buccigras and Melrose (hey Barry, Scrivens still the best goalie in the country?). Here's my take on what I read over the past three pages:

First, thanks to the person who used my quote from back in October. It is kind of ironic that I thought last year's coaching job was Umile's best, since on this past Halloween weekend in Madison I declared (and no one disagreed) that this might be the worst collection of forwards that Umile has ever had. He proved me wrong, once again. The problem with the team, with the program, is not the coach, it is the talent they are bringing in. Although Umile is ultimately responsible, the onus falls to Lassonde and Borek. We don't have enough high end players to make it work. You look at BC, you look at Wisconsin with their five defenseman who were first round draft picks. How the hell does UNH compete with that? As someone recently said, we're good enough to make the tournament, just not good enough to win it.

Second, it is hard for me to denigrate RIT. I reviewed their roster before I headed out to Albany on Friday and the two things that stuck out for me were the number of players that they had from Ontario (at least 8-10) and the fact that they had no one on the roster who was a 1990 birthday or greater. In fact they have four players (can't call them kids) who were born in 1985, the same age as my daughter who graduated from college three years ago. The analogy is obvious, RIT is this year's Niagara. They beat both Denver and UNH and they deserved both wins. I kind of doubt they will take out Wisconsin but you never know.

RIT's fans. Sure they were great, but there were no more than 2,000 of them from a school of 13,000 or so. And don't forget it was there first time in the big show, so naturally they were pumped. Back in 1999 UNH owned the Worcester Centrum the night that Haydar scored from Krog in OT. It was all new to us back then, the program had gone to a different level, and all the newbies and bandwagon fans wanted to revel in it. Same with RIT now. If they make it back for the next five years, and never win anything, let's see how many fans of their are in Albany in 2015.

In the last three pages next to nothing has been said about UNH's victory over Cornell. It was clearly their best game of the season. They took Cornell out of their game early, overcame the fluky goal at the end of the first period and, to me anyway, it was a matter of time before they broke the game open. UNH clearly has Cornell's number in the playoffs, not because they are some kind of world beaters but because Cornell plays their stupid system that, while effective against Princeton, Brown and Union, can't cut it when they get to play the big boys. I am sure way back in this thread someone talked about Rick Schafer and his refusal to shake hands at the end of game. Further proof that he is an arrogant little tubby boy leading a team that is living off the glory days of 40 years ago. We play there next year. I can hardly wait.

As for Butler, I was so disappointed for him on Saturday night. His play over four years personifies everything that is great about college sports in general, and college hockey in particular. The kid worked his butt of this year, never took a shift off, and was a true leader. Any accolade he has already received or will receive in the future is well deserved. Although I'll hope for the best, I don't really care if he is a whopping success in the pros. He had a GREAT college career, capped by a GREAT senior year. Contrast his play to guys like Winnik, S. Collins, B. Hemingway when they were seniors (I know Winnik was a junior, but you know what I mean). They just don't measure up.

Short reference to Peter Chiarelli. I don't know if he blew it by not signing Butler, but I can tell you he blew it by making Joe Colburne a #1 pick. Chiarelli has continued to say all year that the kid was having a "great season." Off what I saw on Friday, he's a big guy, who definitely needs to fill out, whose skating area is primarily between the face-off dots in the offensive zone and scored 75% of his goals on the PP. I'll be willing to bet he won't be as effective as Blake Wheeler, which is short praise. The ironic thing is we saw Chiarelli right after the Denver game on Friday, talking on the phone with a big smile on his face. I got the impression he would be going back to Boston with Colburne in the back seat.

Finally, about Umile. You all know that I have been a big defender of his over the years. As I have said many times, he is going nowhere unless he decides to hang it up. When I hear of some of the candidates suggested as a replacement, I'm not sure whether to gag or laugh. Mark Morris? He of the hazing and beating a kid of the head while at Clarkson? Pat Foley? Not sure if he is the the top recruiter for Harvard, but what have they done in the mediocre ECAC since he's went there. Mark Mowers? Love the guy, my favorite UNH player of all time. But after a pro career that is probably longer than he could ever have hoped, is he finally going to come home to a college game he barely recognizes anymore and start from scratch? No, and I doubt UNH would be interested anyway. All the speculation is ridiculous, but I do know that in a few years, three of the top jobs in the country will be open when Parker, York, and Umile retire. There will be some serious choices to be made. The fans of each school just have to hope that the powers that be are up to it.

 

[Got 6 Want More]

Re: UNH Wildcats - '10 Playoff Edition

. I am sure way back in this thread someone talked about Rick Schafer and his refusal to shake hands at the end of game. Further proof that he is an arrogant little tubby boy leading a team that is living off the glory days of 40 years ago. We play there next year. I can hardly wait..

No mention of it on TV. That is disappointing but takes me back to a kind of funny story. In 1989, we beat Cornell at Lynah 2-0 (first shut out of the home team there in a LONG time), and the head coach at the time (Mark McCutcheon) refuses to shake hands with Joe Marsh and as they are walking off the ice he mutters "at least we have tradition", next season the t-shirts for dry land training said "St. Lawrence Hockey: where tradition is built, not relied on!" I hope you do kick their butts.

Did he refuse to shake the coaches hands or the players? There is actually an 'agreement' between ECAC coaches to not shake hands with the players from the opposing team because some coaches felt the winning team doing it is unsportsmanlike and is gloating. Not kidding. Welcome to preschool.

Finally, about Umile. You all know that I have been a big defender of his over the years. As I have said many times, he is going nowhere unless he decides to hang it up. When I hear of some of the candidates suggested as a replacement, I'm not sure whether to gag or laugh. Mark Morris? He of the hazing and beating a kid of the head while at Clarkson? Pat Foley? Not sure if he is the the top recruiter for Harvard, but what have they done in the mediocre ECAC since he's went there. Mark Mowers? Love the guy, my favorite UNH player of all time. But after a pro career that is probably longer than he could ever have hoped, is he finally going to come home to a college game he barely recognizes anymore and start from scratch? No, and I doubt UNH would be interested anyway. All the speculation is ridiculous, but I do know that in a few years, three of the top jobs in the country will be open when Parker, York, and Umile retire. There will be some serious choices to be made. The fans of each school just have to hope that the powers that be are up to it.

I was mostly kidding about Mark Morris. I think Umile is a great coach and canning him would be a travesty. I truly hold him in the highest regard and think though he hasn't won the big one has been a very classy and successful coach.

 

[thecomicbookguy]

Re: UNH Wildcats - '10 Playoff Edition

UNH clearly has Cornell's number in the playoffs, not because they are some kind of world beaters but because Cornell plays their stupid system that, while effective against Princeton, Brown and Union, can't cut it when they get to play the big boys.

Here's the strange thing, though - every time UNH has beat Cornell in the playoffs these past ten years, they have gone on to get crushed in their very next game. In '02, they beat Cornell to go to Minny and get wrecked by Maine, 7-2. In '03 they bet the Big Red to advance to the finals, and get walloped by Minnesota, 5-1. And then this year, UNH plays their best game of the year, blows out Cornell, only to get blown out by RIT.

The Curse of Cornell?