Coaching. Leaman had success at Union and brought that experience to PC. Yale had a long time coach and had a great assistance in Red Top. Who the following year took over at Maine and started their comeback. Much of the team that Barr initially started with were recruits from Gendron.
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UNH- How Far West Do We Go?
- Thread starter norbert
- Start date
Couldn’t agree more. There are so many recent examples just within HE (Barr at Maine, Carvel at UMA, Leamen at PC) all within the last 10-15 years. Heck I’d even throw Borek in that group as he has gotten Merrimack to punch above their usual weightclass the last few years.
There is so much evidence for the AD to draw from to show just how much good coaching can make a big (and sometimes rather quick) difference.
I saw a great post on X over the weekend regarding coaching success in the NFL (posted by Josh Dubow of the AP). The post showed that off the 32 NFL coaches that have won a SuperBowl who were hired after the era began, the breakdown of what year they won their first title went as follows:
1st: 4
2nd: 8
3rd: 4
4th: 7
5th: 5
6th: 1
7th: 1
8th: 1
14th: 1
Now one may take this as “teams should be more patient and give their coaches time to cook” but I look at this as evidence that good coaches change the culture fast, start winning quickly, and bring home championships. For Pats fans, just look at how quickly Vrabel righted the ship after the debacle that was the end of the Belichick era and the one year Mayo experiment. Kraft came out saying it was financially unsound to move on from Mayo so quickly, but I bet he would make that decision 10/10 times to be back in the SB as quickly as they are…
Maybe Souza will be that coach who wins it after 14 years, but the evidence appears stacked against him thus far…
Chuck Murray
WIS & Effingwoods Hockey Almanac
I love posts like this ... raise a topic, review the data, and debate the conclusions. I'm not sure the NFL has a lot in common with NCAA D-1 Hockey, but the goal in both places is to run a successful winning program. And if you don't win OR move towards winning quickly in the NFL, there is a lot of money and prestige on the line when you're challenging for a Super Bowl. The patience to allow a head coach more than five (5) seasons to get there is pretty rare.
The 14 year guy BTW is the Steelers' Bill Cowher, and like his predecessor and successor, he fielded winners consistently over the course of his career, and combined with the Rooney family's patience - three HC hires in the last 56 seasons speaks to patience and good judgment - that explains why he got as much slack as he did. I'm sure if you put Cowher on truth serum, he'd concede he was lucky to last so long without winning the big trophy. As a counterpoint, the Buffalo Bills gave Sean McDermott nine years, and even if his team was supremely unlucky this postseason (getting jobbed in Denver, which probably led to the Patriots advancing, where a loss to Buffalo this past weekend would have been probable), that still ended up costing him his job. It's a tough business.
Now ... we slide on over, and we consider Coach Souza, and what (if anything?) he has in common with either Cowher or McDermott?? Pretty much nothing, actually. Those two guys were consistent winners, even when they were coming up short a combined 22 times between them. Heck, UNH wrote the book on riding with a consistently winning coach who never quite got there (Umile) ... but while he was consistently winning, his successor has consistently been a loser.
The college setting is certainly a more forgiving scenario for underachieving coaches who ingratiate themselves with their schools for other qualities, but I'd love to see you do a deep dive on D-1 coaches who have managed to make it through an entire decade with just one (1) winning season. I'm going to be very surprised if, in addition to our very own man of the hour, there are more than 2-3 tops who survived that long on such a sparse CV.
And once again, it is none other than Scotty B. who ambles into town with his Merrimack Warriors to apply the kill shot to the kid who stole his job at UNH ...
Chuck Murray
WIS & Effingwoods Hockey Almanac
I'd be very careful with that line of approach anywhere near the UMaine thread, Norbie. By all accounts a nice guy, but some coaches are born assistants, and I think Red fits that bill. Using your logic here, then Carvel was lucky to inherit some of his guys too (including Makar) from his bet-you-can't-remember-his-name coaching predecessor? Bottom line, if you're in charge, it's your job to win, and if you whip up a championship team with some new ingredients and some leftovers, you're still a champion. And if you don't make steady progress in that direction, then thanks for your services, and good luck at your next destination (just not here, g'bye).
Sparkee
Blackbear
You are hilarious. Gendron lead Maine to their comeback?!?!
Gendron coached Maine for 8 seasons compiling a record of 103-134-32. I think that is the worse record for a head coach at Maine.
His final season was abbreviated by Covid and he lead Maine to a 3-11-2 record.
Red was a heckuva good guy, but he drove Maine into the ditch and even further down through the rhubarb.
He left Maine in a terrible position. Maine’s 1st season under Barr they went 7-22-4.
Barr leveraged the transfer portal heavily during those first few years to rebuild Maine.
What you claim can’t be further from the truth.
To be honest, I see more similarity between Souza and Gendron. Both likable fellas that made decent assistants but below average head coaches. And able to stay head coach longer than they should have because they got paid way below the league average.
In Souza’s case, as an assistant/associate coach, his teams had losing records five of his seven years, including his especially disastrous three years at UNH before he became head coach. If you want to call that “decent,” our definitions of the word are very different.
Thanks for your kind words, Chuck! Following up on your query, ChatGPT had a bit of difficulty with this search (10+ seasons with only one above .500). From what I was able to glean though:
Gary Wright (AIC, 1984-2016) is probably the best fit, with an overall record of 313-605-76 with his last winning season coming back in the mid 90s. Alas though AIC no longer has a division 1 hockey program. No idea how he lasted as long as he did.
Another close example that popped up was Bob Daniels at Ferris State (1989-2025, retired) who’s last winning season was 2015-2016, albeit he appeared to have better success early in his tenure before the wheels started to fall off.
Sneddon at UVM (2003-2020) and Dave Smith at Canisius and RPI (2005-2025) also came up. But again both had multiple >.500 seasons earlier in their tenure. Smith lasted 7 seasons at RPI without a winning record before his ousting.
Needless to say - the list is short and I don’t think anyone (outside of Wright) closely matches the CV of MS7 during his time at UNH.
EDIT: Smith had one winning season at RPI at 17-15 in 2019-2020 (Covid shortened year).
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Nice sleuthing, Flagup17.
But with all due respect to Chat GPT, to compare MS7 with Bob Daniels at Ferris State is laughable. Daniels took his team to the NC game at the Tampa FF in 2012, losing to BC after beating Union in the semi’s. Daniels had a few other strong winning seasons also, including 31 wins in 2002-2003 when the old CCHA had teams like Michigan and Michigan Stare. With a 37-year coaching career in Div 1, Daniels came up short of Umile’s career record, but of course neither brought home the ultimate hardware.
I agree that one was a bit of a stretch. I think it was basing it off of an overall below .500 record and he went a 10 season stretch below .500.
My guess is based on his past success he likely had a Umile-esque “life-time” contract prior to his retirement. In his first year post retirement the program is continuing to struggle (4-22 record and current 10 game losing streak). I wonder how long of a rope that coach will have before they look for a replacement?
Yes, I go Emily. The difference between us is I support the team constructively and honestly and recognize that the players are amateurs and the head coach is a decent guy working for a financially troubled institution run by mediocre people in a deeply regressive state.
You smear and attack players personally - see Conmy. You are the type of fan every player hates.
Whenever the discussion about Mike Souza's coaching record comes up, I always point to Kevin Sneddon at UVM. And what's wild is that Sneddon, a coach who was hardly beloved, was still far more successful than Souza has managed to be.
Beyond just having a better winning percentage (41.8% vs. 38.7%), Sneddon actually took UVM to big games. They went to Boston three times, making the final once. He also led them to three NCAA tournaments and even a Frozen Four.
Souza has delivered none of those results, and the lack of accountability for that is astounding.
Beyond just having a better winning percentage (41.8% vs. 38.7%), Sneddon actually took UVM to big games. They went to Boston three times, making the final once. He also led them to three NCAA tournaments and even a Frozen Four.
Souza has delivered none of those results, and the lack of accountability for that is astounding.
Bravo. You're getting to the heart of the problem at UNH. BTW, don't bother chatting with Meathead, Buford and Elwood. They're bitter that they have to pay property taxes. Let's just say they looooooooove 1950s New Hampshire.
At UNH it's all about saving money and waiting for things to break down before attempting a fix - or better yet looking for somebody else to pickup the tab. Staying ahead is NEVER the solution because its seems costly, even though intelligent people understand preventative maintenance is the pathway to saving money.
Rest assured, when Souza leaves (bless him but he's nearing the end) the next coach will face the same problems. A mediocre to below average coach will stay due to a lack options. In the event, UNH finds a good one, he'll be gone in 4 years for a better resourced program. But THE PROBLEM will remain.
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Well, UVM got rid of Sneddon. After all he had a 41.8 winning percentage! How has UVM done without him? Well, it been 6 years since Sneddon left with two head coaches and 6 losing seasons. The losing must have been all Sneddon's fault. UVM's resources are limited - similar to UNH. Like UNH, UVM fails to address THE PROBLEM.
UVM has been hyping a new sports facility with hockey rink with all the bells and whistles since 2012. Costs estimates started at $50 to $60 million and now are at $80 million (cuts had to be made). They're trying to do it through private donations. UVM won't reveal how much money has been raised to date but a spokesperson said that the biggest problem they are facing? Prospective private donors don't believe it will even happen.
As for Scott Borek at Merrimack, which gets a lot of play here, take a factual look at his accomplishments. He's completed 7 seasons as head coach and had 5 losing seasons and 1 NCAA tourney appearance. The one great season was impressive - second place in hockey east. But Merrimack got smoked in the first round of NCAAs. FWIW, Merrimack's backroom facilities are better than UNH.
HockeyRef
Well-known member
Sneddon had measurable success until he didnt. He's now an assistant at Union if I have that right without looking it up? Of course he coached in a time where things are very different than they are now.But that doesnt change the fact that he brought UVM to some big games as was mentioned. In fact my first HE trip to the Garden I wanna say UVM was there ( 2014?) Now..UVM beats teams like BU...will they do much post season? No idea.
I refuse to buy the argument thst Mike Souza can't be successful because the players he manages to recruit are the best he can come up with...because of $$...ice...locker rooms...Now thats a slap in the face to those players who I believe have talent!!
If you still haven't been able to do something...like get to the Garden or be a top 6 team NOW and THEN after 10 years all the $$ in the world...the best facilties in the planet isn't going to move the needle that much. Sorry...thats how I see it and I'd love to be wrong.
MC looms large...
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