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UNH- How Far West Do We Go?
- Thread starter norbert
- Start date
Nick Papagiorgio
Holding court
A few things here,
SteveF is alive and well and yes he handled the last installments of HE Rookie of the Weak, I think something recently was linked around here going back into the archives; just absurdly funny and he had the best writing on this topic. In the early days, we all would scour box scores for weekly submissions and coordinate back and forth and make the decisions and put in some clever remarks as a rough draft that someone would finish. Eventually the torch was passed to him as we all got busy with kids. At some point, the blog, which was also legendary, was created and it was posted there along with extremely elementary photoshops of the "winners" on a milk carton. The blog was interesting and went beyond hockey to troll other hillbilly fanbases that we shared a conference with (think West Virginia) and it was just wild what kinds of people would find it and leave comments, the most memorable of which I cannot even post for risk of being banned. The Milk-Carton photoshop was inspired by THE legendary photoshop on this board, the beach ball Mike Ayers photo from the 2003 Frozen Four (I still remember poor Chuck in the arena after that game). Who knew we'd end up with Ayers on our staff choking away championships here with a modern-day ginger version of Dick Umile guiding the Eagles to April and March disappointment.
Steve is a legend and one of the funniest guys you'll ever meet, going to games with him are some of my all-time favorite memories.
Maybe we need to bring it back.
edit - come on guys, Steve is fine, please delete this BS about him being gone. JFC
SteveF is alive and well and yes he handled the last installments of HE Rookie of the Weak, I think something recently was linked around here going back into the archives; just absurdly funny and he had the best writing on this topic. In the early days, we all would scour box scores for weekly submissions and coordinate back and forth and make the decisions and put in some clever remarks as a rough draft that someone would finish. Eventually the torch was passed to him as we all got busy with kids. At some point, the blog, which was also legendary, was created and it was posted there along with extremely elementary photoshops of the "winners" on a milk carton. The blog was interesting and went beyond hockey to troll other hillbilly fanbases that we shared a conference with (think West Virginia) and it was just wild what kinds of people would find it and leave comments, the most memorable of which I cannot even post for risk of being banned. The Milk-Carton photoshop was inspired by THE legendary photoshop on this board, the beach ball Mike Ayers photo from the 2003 Frozen Four (I still remember poor Chuck in the arena after that game). Who knew we'd end up with Ayers on our staff choking away championships here with a modern-day ginger version of Dick Umile guiding the Eagles to April and March disappointment.
Steve is a legend and one of the funniest guys you'll ever meet, going to games with him are some of my all-time favorite memories.
Maybe we need to bring it back.
edit - come on guys, Steve is fine, please delete this BS about him being gone. JFC
It is not 100% accurate that nonprofits don't pay property taxes. Depending on the use of a property, it may not be 100% excluded from property taxes.
And these colleges and hospitals that don't pay taxes, pay PILOTS. In 2024 there was millions paid to the City of Boston from these nonprofits
2013hockeyfan
Active member
The idea that UNH should consider leaving Hockey East, no matter how much they struggle, is outrageous. Would be a massive unforced error.
Meathead, stop digging. The PILOT program is it's own outrage and purely voluntary. It's a joke and typically only results in the municipalities recovering a tiny fraction of what's lost is property taxes.
Less than two weeks until Groundhog Day!
Revenue generating college sports is undergoing massive changes. Hockey is, too. Between the transfer portal, NIL, and the new OHL recruiting rules, the difference between the wealthy and not so wealthy schools will grow greater over time. UNH is certainly the type of school that tries to take action too late. After all, change and staying ahead of the game requires vision, ambition and investment - three things NH doesn't understand or respect.
Nevertheless, a complete assessment of the hockey program, the future of D1 hockey, and HE would be smart. If UNH is headed in the wrong direction, which we all agree is the case, change is necessary. I think UNH's future, pretty clearly, is in a league with competitive but less ambitious, less expensive (most importantly) and not nationally competitive programs.
I'm thinking UNH, Sacred Heart, RPI, St Lawrence, Colgate, UVM, Bentley, Holy Cross and perhaps Merrimack. That's a solid league. Fewer scholarships, less traveling less pressure to improve/maintain faciliities.
UMass Lowell and UMass travel in tandem (see state legislature) and UMass has first rate funding and facilities. UMaine and UConn are well funded, have good facilities and are very ambitious. UNH no longer is a fit with them. Let's not even consider comparing UNH to BC, BU, NU and Providence from the standpoint of funding, facilities and ambition.
That leaves, UNH, UVM and Merrimack as excellent candidates to break off into another league that is less expensive and less ambitious. They have less in common with the other 8 teams as time goes on.
Great to learn that SteveF is alive and well. Brings to mind the classic 1897 Mark Twain quote “The reports of my death are greatly exaggerated.”
You are saying these places are flush with cash because they don't pay taxes, but there is an expense. Also there are locations that pay property taxes. The only thing I am digging is your grave.
JB
Desk Chair Coach
I know it is hard but it would really be nice if you would stick to one argument and stop conflating things. It would also help if you grew up and also stopped trying to intimate you are the smartest person in the room.
In Short:
Your argument has been the STATE of NH needs to spend more on UNH to commit to the hockey program. You seem to want an income tax so that NH stops leaching off Mass to fund UNH. You have implied that the STATE of Mass investments in Universities is what has driven the economy and NH should do the same.
My reference to property taxes is the TOWN or CITY collect those not the STATE in Mass. In that case the STATE isn't subsidizing the private universities by not charging property tax. Now MIT still paid $96.7M in 2024 real estate taxes on commercial properties and $2.4M to Cambridge in voluntary "Payments in Lieu of Taxes". All of those funds again went to TOWN and CITY. So again how is the STATE of Mass subsidizing these private schools like they would fund a state school?The extension of your argument is NH should get credit for its commitment to subsidizing Dartmouth and in this case a percentage of property taxes does go to the state.
As to the innovation engine around Boston it is driven by the private schools, not STATE of Mass subsidizing.
P.S. Honestly your dishonest approach to open debate makes me think I need to just start ignoring you, at least when the pinheads were doing it, it was for humor
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JB
Desk Chair Coach
Please do, I agree it was absurdly funny. A little AI help could definitely reduce the box score research.
1000% agree here. Also given UNH was one of the founding members of the conference back in the 80s, I would think (even if UNH was contemplating leaving) that the conference would REALLY try to persuade them the other way.
Leaving HE would be a massive slap to the face for the loyal fans of UNH hockey, and I believe akin to UNH accepting defeat that they can never return to their former days of glory.
Building off what Chuck mentioned yesterday: While NIL certainly played a role, I don’t think you need to look much further than what Indiana and coach Cignetti just did at proving just how quickly things can change in college sports, and what a difference good coaching can make (all with no 5 star recruits to boot). The hockey equivalent to Cignetti may be out there somewhere, and there’s no reason UNH can’t find them and return to glory atop HE and div 1 hockey.
Chuck Murray
WIS & Effingwoods Hockey Almanac
It seems the demise of SteveF has been greatly exaggerated ... mostly due to me. I thought I'd qualified it with an IIRC, but regardless ... apologies, sorry!!
Chuck Murray
WIS & Effingwoods Hockey Almanac
My concern for the last few years is that "hockey version of Cignetti" is currently running the program up in Orono, and our previous AD (Blue Skies) screwed the pooch on that opportunity when he was giving MS7 his first (undeserved) extension. Opportunities like that only come up so often, and if you're lacking vision, you can very easily miss your best (only?) real shot ...
Heading into this year, I would have agreed with you, albeit their performance in the NCAAs has left a lot to be desired the last few seasons. Still, making hay in HE is WAY more than we can say over the last 10+ years.
This year has obviously been a bit more of a struggle for them, as evidenced by our sweeping them at home, and also a recent sweep (borderline trouncing) at the hands of a good PU team. Even still, Barr was able to get them re-motivated after the sweep by UNH, and they started out the year strong with an almost sweep of DU in Denver.
As has been discussed in various places, I think the league didn’t quite know how to predict the influence of the Canadian league players on college hockey, and that has positively impacted some programs, while also negatively impacting others. I’m not as well versed on what may be impacting Maines performance this year vs last, but whatever it may be, I imagine Barr will make the necessary adjustments heading into next year and will likely rebound.
The (I believe) small percentage chance he does not rebound has me hesitate for a minute to put him in the same class as Cignetti. I’ll hold judgement to see how next year goes for them (or if they go on an absolute tear this year and make a deep run in the NCAAs).
We will have to see how UNH responds, as it appears MS7 is leaning more heavily into the Canadian players with a few new recruits, and also cutting ties (maybe?) with older recruits that were agreed upon prior to the Canadian league change.
I’d be curious if, at seasons end, MS7 uses the Canadian recruits as a bit of a “lifeline” to buy some more time - basically saying this recruiting avenue is still new and we are building out a plan with them and jut need some more time. I’ll give it to him the recruiting has seemed to improve on paper a bit, and perhaps in spurts early in the season with on-ice success. Nonetheless, the “on paper” needs to more consistently translate to “on ice” sooner rather than later…
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You are saying these places are flush with cash because they don't pay taxes, but there is an expense. Also there are locations that pay property
JB I have known you for 30 years now (holy shit we are old) and we converse all the time. We keep fighting someone who is obviously intellectually inferior to us and can't have an adult conversation. I think we all just ignore the responses and he will drift back into the Revere shithole that he lives in.
JB
Desk Chair Coach
Hahaha.... It is 29 years, I was just being funny/stupid
Instead of breaking up HEA, I think that HEA should add three teams, say Bentley, Holy Cross, and Sacred Heart, or if those teams do not want to leave Atlantic Hockey, HEA could add Stonehill, Long Island U., and another bottom feeder, which would give UNH a better chance of escaping from time to time their perennial HEA basement status.