HockeyRef
Well-known member
Herrions contract had come due. Perfect timing. Souza has one more left. Case closed.
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UNH Hockey 2023 Off Season Thread Turn and Face the Strange
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Herrions contract had come due. Perfect timing. Souza has one more left. Case closed.
Chuck Murray
WIS & Effingwoods Hockey Almanac
"Closed" in what sense, 'Ref? Rich could easily buy out MS7 for part of what he is "owed" for next season if the two parties simply sat down and had a discussion.
AR: Mike, you've had the job in one shape or another for 8 years. Not a single winning season, and ...
MS: I can feel it in my bones, Alli ... we're turning the corner at last!! Remember January/February?
AR: I understand you've had spurts like that before. Still, not a single winning season ...
MS: And lookit all the in state kids, SO exciting for the local hockey fans, all I need is five more ...
AR: ... and the trajectory is straight downhill, and the attendance is keeping pace downwards too.
MS: We've had bad luck with the COVID, couldn't do anything about that, I wuz robbed!!!
AR: The COVID didn't seem to hurt UMass, or Merrimack this past season ...
MS: Okay, okay, I get it. You want me to sacrifice one of my guys. I'll tell Ty tomorrow he's out ...
AR: Not quite, Mike. Ty is the least of my concerns. He's not drawing a paycheck for his failures ...
MS: FAILURES!?!?! How dare you!! What do YOU know about hockey, little Princeton missy!!
AR: What I do know about hockey is that you show very little evidence of being able to coach it successfully.
MS: MORE SMEARS!!! I scored two of the biggest goals in the program's history, y'know?!?
AR: Relevance, Mr. Souza? You've exhausted your eligibility a generation ago ...
MS: Well, Uncle Dick and Papa Marty always said it counted for something ...
AR: ... and now you're exhausting my patience. This is what I want to propose to you ...
MS: ... "propose to me??" I'm a married man, Richie!! And I do the proposing around here, missy!!!
AR: Your chances of an extension this time next year are about the same as the Old Man of the Mountain re-appearing ...
MS: ... so you're saying I got a CHANCE??? Yippee!!
AR: Not really, not if you're listening anyway. What say I cut you a check for 50% of next year's final salary ...
MS: Go on ...
AR: ... and then you don't have to make any of your assistants walk the plank - I'll be the "bad guy" ...
MS: Go on ...
AR: ... and we can then say buh-bye and wish you the best of luck in your career away from UNH?
MS: You mean ... no lifetime contract, like the one Papa Marty gave to Uncle Dick???
AR: Never in a million years, Mike. Consider this an offer you can't refuse, in the vernacular, of course.
MS: Of course. Lemme give it some thought.
AR: You got 24 hours. Press conference will be set for 11:00 a.m. Monday. So will the check. If you don't show ...
MS: ... yeah, what if I don't show???
AR: Remember what happened to the smart-a$$ who turned down The Don's offer in Da Godfaddah?
MS: Kinda ...
AR: I'd hate to have you waking up Sunday morning with such a ... mess to deal with. Now be a smart guy willya?
If AD Rich chooses not to do so, she is either lazy, dumb or weak. I don't think she's lazy or dumb. But you have a chance to get a head start on ridding your program of its biggest headache and source of embarrassment, and you just can't find the cojones to cut ties a year early with a guy who has accomplished diddley squat ... weak. Channel your inner BS+infinity, and discover the ruthlessness he found once upon a time to blow out a good guy (and a winner, with years left on his contract) like McCloskey.
Do it, and you are the greatest most proactive AD in UNH history. I will worship the ground you walk on, so long as you keep all your coaches on top of their programs.
Don't do it ... and you are weak, nothing special, and just another mindless faceless AD feathering their retirement.
Fortune favors the brave. Go big or go home. You know what needs to be done, so just DO IT. NOW.
Captain of one of the worst performances in UNH against Michigan at the Verizon/SNHU
NCAA watcher
Registered User
Chuck, moving through the five stages, denial, anger, bargaining, depression and acceptance are a part of the framework that makes up our learning to live with grief. Looks like he's moved from two to three now.
Chuck, join me in stage five, where depression already has occurred, and now just accept what will be until March 2024. It's much easier that way.
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Darius
Go 'cats!
Absolute BS, Chuck. Completely unfair. I hope she does "get a head start" just to see you preceding her around campus, scattering rose petals in her path and otherwise doing her bidding.
This. Relax. Enjoy the season and the final weekend of the NCAA softball regular season.
HockeyRef
Well-known member
Oh my..anyway, by closed, I meant...for right now. If it didn't happen by now, not gonna, and we will just have to see what happens in March 2024.
Agree with the comments below by 'Watcher/Darius. I'll say this, and it may seem minor in comparison,
but in the years I've followed UNH on social media, I never saw one tweet from Marty (and that's ok; its not for everyone). She's far from lazy. She's actively involved
and I have to believe she has her eye on what's up with hockey.
AD Rich is out there promoting her athletes and
giving kudos/support. Sounds kinda warm and fuzzy doesn't it...but I think she has it in her to do what's best, but she's not going to cut this coach right now; nope.
Let's goooo Hurricanes!
Robert Balin
New member
If she had it in her to do what's best than Souza would have been let go a week after she started her posistion...JMHO.
HockeyRef
Well-known member
Precedence is an interesting thing isn't it...and seriously? Maybe that is what is 'needed' but you tell me when has that ever happened at UNH...
Robert Balin
New member
Good question, you would probably have to go way back 40's -50's lol. UNH kept Holt too long and Umile too long and we saw the end results. Ref and all, enjoy the nice day and thank you for the dialog.
HockeyRef
Well-known member
Right back atcha...
HockeyRef
Well-known member
You mean...lacrosse don't you? ;-)
Darius
Go 'cats!
Nope. Funny you say that though as the conclusion of the Princeton/Penn Ivy League semi-final lacrosse game preempted Washington/Stanford softball on ESPNU last night. Fans of all time all sport dynasties can tune to ESPN at 5:00 PM today to witness the wagon that is the Oklahoma Sooner softball team.
After the Whistle
Member
Amen!
Chuck Murray
WIS & Effingwoods Hockey Almanac
RB, I'm with ya. Somehow, though, I could never find it in my heart to resent Coach Holt overstaying his sell-by date, and he didn't make a pig of himself at the end. He still sets the standard high for coaching excellence at UNH. And even with Coach Umile, while I'm less forgiving of his extended goodbye - plus his meddling in getting the overmatched/underqualified MS7 the job as his successor - he was responsible for many of the best moments in UNH Hockey history. Not too many folks exceed their legendary predecessors, as we've seen these last 8 years, up close and personal. Coach Umile DID exceed Coach Holt's accomplishments. And it's not Umile's fault that his star-struck AD never had the guts to push back on him, nor was it Umile giving MS7 an entirely unwarranted contract extension, just so Blue Skies could give his bosses two fingers up on his own way out the door.
Knowing the sway Umile had over Blue Skies, if there's anything I'm still angry with Coach about, it's him not doing more to stick up for his old pal McCloskey when the latter was being unjustly tarred & feathered by BS and the PC-driven admins above him. I'm sure if you put Umile on truth serum today, he'd admit he never saw MS7's time in charge of the alma mater becoming such a chronic, devastating sinkhole. We all make mistakes in judgment, and overestimating MS7's abilities is partly on Umile, but mostly on the guy who actually made the hire (BS).
You know me by now, 'Watcher - always tilting at the windmills. Definitely Stage 3, suspecting a long Stage 4 stay ...
... because I don't do "acceptance" very well. And a big part of me thinks Our Favorite Paisan will find a way to talk himself into at least two more years, because after upgrading to the Jumbotron, and more recently "shrinking the rink", there's other things left to kvetch about that's conspiring against MS7's drive for D-1 Hockey Nirvana. Gold plated flush handles on the locker room potties could grab the attention of some portal washouts who might otherwise be tempted to go to UVM or Brown or Princeton, after all.
I can't keep up this pace over the summah anyway, so maybe Stage 5 is best for my long-term health & well-being ...
NCAA watcher
Registered User
That and margaritas.
From your image of AD Rich, does the lawyer/Princeton lady seem like the sort that will be smooth talked by the local Wakefield/Melrose crew?
Get some margaritas in her and I'm sure she'd be cursing Marty for tying her hands. Maybe I'm projecting too much, but I'm sure absent a top 6 HE finish, which will be hard with the roster, MS7 is Helsinki'd.
And Charlie Holt really didn't overstay too long. He made the NCAAs in 83 back when that was what, 8 teams. His second to last year he was above .500. What did him in was Terry Flanagan getting the gig in Bowling Green. With him went the Stratford Culliton connection that was an easy recruiting pipeline for UNH up to 79. All the Stratford kids filled York's rosters from 82-90.
I did three years with him, but in those days it really was a small pool. PC had Lamouriello, BC had Len, BU had Parker, Lowell had Riley, so you grew old with yours and hired from within. Maine broke the mold when they brought in an outsider, and adding the WCHA teams, made HE move from that model.
Holt built UNH from a DII school to the 77 final four. He was innovative, and creative and gracious.
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Chuck Murray
WIS & Effingwoods Hockey Almanac
Did you work with Holt and/or Flanagan, 'Watcher? Personally, the years 1983-1987 were a blur for us, with graduating, getting married, buying our first house (Dover) and starting our family, and I missed the fine details of the end of the Holt Era, and really didn't get to see too much in the too-brief Kullen Era. Had season tix for the last few seasons at Snively, which as you know were fun years, with lots of exciting attacking hockey. Probably why I'm still a bit of a Umile apologist.
I vividly remember when Charlie passed in the middle of the 2000 Hockey East tourney. There was a moment of silence for him pre-game at the Fleet Center, and I was sure UNH would ride the emotion to at least the Finals (this was a time of optimism, as UNH had lost in the FF Finals less than a year earlier). But after carrying a 1-0 lead deep into the 3rd period, BC scored twice in the closing minutes to advance to the HEA Finals, where they would lose to UMaine on a Niko Dimitrakos goal with seconds left in regulation. We actually went to the HEA Finals without UNH playing, because our eldest daughter was SO hooked on college hockey by then. Fun times.
Seems like yesterday, but seems like a million years ago. I fear UNH Hockey may never be as much fun ever again ...
So it is May 6th and here is the current status as I see it:
1. MS7 is obviously here for another year.
2. Athletics does not care about fan comments as I have not heard a word from any emails I have sent.
3. No one wants to come here for a multitude of reasons
4. Current players don't like him
5. Our backup goalie has a lower save percentage than Ullmark
I can't wait to renew my tickets. At our family board meeting I am considering buying 1 season ticket. Gets me upstairs, saves me a ton of money buying 2 GA tickets, we have 1 student ticket, and I still have no access to parking.
1. MS7 is obviously here for another year.
2. Athletics does not care about fan comments as I have not heard a word from any emails I have sent.
3. No one wants to come here for a multitude of reasons
4. Current players don't like him
5. Our backup goalie has a lower save percentage than Ullmark
I can't wait to renew my tickets. At our family board meeting I am considering buying 1 season ticket. Gets me upstairs, saves me a ton of money buying 2 GA tickets, we have 1 student ticket, and I still have no access to parking.
Ironic and tragic that both Flanagan and Kullen later passed away within a year of each other, and would have awards named for them. Always wondered what might have been for each of them.
HockeyRef
Well-known member
Speaking of awards...didn't see anything about this year's hockey banquet? Usually the awards are posted online. Thought there was a Kullen award but maybe confusing it with the Charlie Holt award.
NCAA watcher
Registered User
Not with. I was the student paper newsboy covering the team 83-87, so rode the bus with the team to and from road games, and interviewed the coaches. Coaches could have been dismissive of stupid questions from a nerdy 18 year old (Jackie Parker, looking at you), but Holt was grandfatherly. I wasn't aware of his age being an issue, but also lacked the broader perspective of knowing how things worked and structural issues that impacted the team. I mean, UNH got Norm Lacombe, an NHL first rounder in 81, and Peter Herms a top recruit in 82, and Peter Douris in 83. But the depth started to get hollowed out as the Stratford and Toronto pipeline became tighter, and they had to rely on fringe NE kids like Steve Smith and Jeff Cournoyer. Now, I didn't know they were fringe, but in retrospect, UNH was losing out on the top tier guys and settling for the local lower hanging fruit (sound familiar?)
I was there for the transition to Kullen, and he even wrote me a recommendation for grad school, though he was not warm like Holt, and was no-nonsense. But he had an intensity that he was able to sell once he was in the seat, and his first two recruiting classes were out of this world. UNH was back in the game with a new boss. It is largely with that experience that I was so put off by Mike Souza's "golly gee, we're just such a great family here" persona in his first several interviews here. As I wrote in 2015/2016, this was his chance to be respectful of his predecessor, but bring a new energy and intensity to distinguish himself from his patron, and send the message that would be appealing to the new generation. Instead -- and largely because of the f'd up handoff process where Mike was "in charge" but not "in charge" from 2015-2018 -- Mike was meekly doing what he had been trained to do as an assistant coach. Defer. Marty neutered him from the start, and Umile did him no favors by that process that served only Umile to the detriment of Souza. And ultimately, people are who they are. Kullen was a type A intense. Souza is a type B, competitive but friendly.
I'm sensitive to this because I was also in that mold, and failed in my first chance to be the boss because you don't see yourself as the boss, just a supporting player. It took me a new start at my own to get to overcome this, which is why I think that being pushed out and having to find his own spot may be the best for MS in the long run, professionally and personally.
Just to finish off on Kullen, who, as I said was intimidating, but also thankfully not dismissive of weird 20-22 year olds. His first two recruiting classes were 87 & 88.
87
Chris Winnes - NHL
Adrien Plavsic - NHL (I remember Kullen said he was like a mini-Ray Bourque)
Kevin Dean - NHL
David McIntyre - All-HE
Dominic Amodeo - All-American (he was recruited for 87, but admissions deferred him to 88)
88
Scott Morrow -- NHL
Joe Flanagan - All-American
Savo Mitrovic -- All-Hockey East
That's what he left for Umile. The recovery was well underway even if those kids didn't pop the NCAAs until their senior year 91/92. In the interim Umile had done weaker recruiting of his Boston locals (think Bob Donovan, Mike Sullivan, Kevin Thomson, Bob Chebator), trending downward after the Kullen group left in 92 (a .500 year in 92-93) UNTIL another intense assistant named McCloskey came aboard in 92, bringing aboard classes:
93
Tom Nolan - top NE recruit
Eric Boguniecki - NHL
Tim Murray - All-HE
94
Mowers - NHL
Nickulas - NHL
95
Krog -
Bekar
Common thread -- intense guys who take ownership and aren't passengers.
(And, of course as you will know, recruits all had good pedigrees in the days when nobody had access to info about the junior leagues. Just being from the hallowed Henry Carr pipeline didn't mean jack. Trying to understand what recruits were highly sought after fed my interest in recruiting. And it ties back again to McCloskey, who at the time was proud of his work and fed Barry Scanlon stories about who they were after, and what big scores they got when kids committed.)
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