UNH Hockey 2023 Off Season Thread Turn and Face the Strange

[NCAA watcher]

Noted. I don't know what to really expect but I was shocked to get a response and invite.

I am curious if he understands the disconnect between those across the street, STH, and reality when it comes to the program.

That does sound shocking. And awkward for you that he took you up on it. I mean, I doubt he can acknowledge the truth (e.g., lame duck entering last year of contract with mediocre at best results). Does he go with full introspection "I was oblivious to the issues and unprepared, and its taken me 8 years to get my bearings, so I think now I've got it on the right track." I'd love to see that. More likely some variation of external reasons for the failure -- "parity makes recruiting so much harder, money resources not available that my new boss will now give us, she's a great boss. With her in place I can finally succeed."
That leaves you in the position of either calling b.#s. (you had a good young core, but two of the more promising freshmen part of that core just walked out on you"), or just nodding and allowing him to remain in his echo chamber of self denial.

More realistically, I would be interested to see what he sees as the goals and trajectory. Presumably he would not set the bar too high to claim 23-24 a "success," (with the silent understanding that this will be his last year unless he has "success"): perhaps a modest bar (8th place??) with the promise of an upward trajectory ("we have a great young core and recruits, and a pipeline that will get us to the top 4 in HE by 202__") That modest bar is both uninspiring, and will also be hard to hit. Can he possibly set the bar lower ("we just want to improve" implicitly "we want to avoid 10th place").

All of that b#s really ignores what would be a meaningful answer of "I know I've f'd up for 8 years, but trust me, I think I got it right now by learning X, Y, Z."

 

[norbert]

That does sound shocking. And awkward for you that he took you up on it. I mean, I doubt he can acknowledge the truth (e.g., lame duck entering last year of contract with mediocre at best results). Does he go with full introspection "I was oblivious to the issues and unprepared, and its taken me 8 years to get my bearings, so I think now I've got it on the right track." I'd love to see that. More likely some variation of external reasons for the failure -- "parity makes recruiting so much harder, money resources not available that my new boss will now give us, she's a great boss. With her in place I can finally succeed."
That leaves you in the position of either calling b.#s. (you had a good young core, but two of the more promising freshmen part of that core just walked out on you"), or just nodding and allowing him to remain in his echo chamber of self denial.

More realistically, I would be interested to see what he sees as the goals and trajectory. Presumably he would not set the bar too high to claim 23-24 a "success," (with the silent understanding that this will be his last year unless he has "success"): perhaps a modest bar (8th place??) with the promise of an upward trajectory ("we have a great young core and recruits, and a pipeline that will get us to the top 4 in HE by 202__") That modest bar is both uninspiring, and will also be hard to hit. Can he possibly set the bar lower ("we just want to improve" implicitly "we want to avoid 10th place").

All of that b#s really ignores what would be a meaningful answer of "I know I've *** up for 8 years, but trust me, I think I got it right now by learning X, Y, Z."

Unlike trying to upward manage with a boss I can't get fired for calling BS. I want to know as others have suggested what is the plan, but trust is hard when you have not had any success for 8 years. The other part of my conversation will be if he understands the disconnect between across the street and those who continue to shell out money.

With the Friends being forced out, you don't have any access as in prior with post-game talks upstairs. I know after a game he might not want to talk much, but I think it would go a long way to have a few post-game gatherings with updates.

I should know Thursday afternoon what the deal is as I am meeting him at 9:30 at the Whit.

 

[Chuck Murray]

In others news, I will most likely be taking the short trip to Durham later this week for a sit-down with MS7 to discuss the program and all things college hockey. If anyone has questions, thoughts, or ideas to bring up I am willing to make them part of the discussion.

... and to think, I'm marooned up in Rochester NY later this week, or else I'd have volunteered to join you. :-(

I vaguely recall having put together a decent package of seat-squirming questions for just such an occasion a few pages ago ... or not? I'm mildly surprised MS7 would be in Durham at this time of the year, and almost wondering if he's there to ink an extension? Now, wouldn't THAT be the way to hand out an exclusive to a breaking-news story, eh?

NORBERT: MS7 SIGNS FIVE YEAR EXTENSION WITH 'CATS - NEWS AT ELEVEN (ugh)

Good luck, have fun, and don't let him wriggle out of tight spots with non-answers. We're all depending on you!!

 

[Chuck Murray]

Loaded question: "So Mike, let's start with your mentor Luce. Between the two of you, you've made a total of one (1) trip to the Hockey East Tourney in almost a combined 20 years in charge of your respective programs. Who do you guys have compromising photos of, that allows you both to continue to wallow in mediocrity in your respective jobs?"

If you're uncomfortable asking it that way, you can always go the 3rd party way ("Some people say [fill-in-the-blank] ... how would you answer to those assertions, Mikey?" ;-)

Always trying my best to be of assistance to my fellow UNH posters.

 

[norbert]

Loaded question: "So Mike, let's start with your mentor Luce. Between the two of you, you've made a total of one (1) trip to the Hockey East Tourney in almost a combined 20 years in charge of your respective programs. Who do you guys have compromising photos of, that allows you both to continue to wallow in mediocrity in your respective jobs?"

If you're uncomfortable asking it that way, you can always go the 3rd party way ("Some people say [fill-in-the-blank] ... how would you answer to those assertions, Mikey?" ;-)

Always trying my best to be of assistance to my fellow UNH posters.

I have a list going of things everyone has mentioned and things I have thought of. You do bring up a good point with "NEWS AT ELEVEN" in that how does the status of your contract impact the year and recruiting. There has to be some pause for recruits being looked at now if the person in their living will be around.

 

[NCAA watcher]

I'd also be interested. UNH has lost traction with the top level New England/Mass recruits. Why does he feel he lost the market and how does he see recapturing it.

 

[HockeyRef]

Pesce! And, thanks for the congrats.

Norbert, I'm amazed you got this 'meeting' and look forward to what comes out of it...do you plan on reporting back here?

 

[Snively65]

Pesce! And, thanks for the congrats.

Norbert, I'm amazed you got this 'meeting' and look forward to what comes out of it...do you plan on reporting back here?

And an assist for Pesce. Did he get in a fight for a Gordie Howe Hat Trick?

Also, Foegele got only Oilers goal in their loss last night.

 

[norbert]

Pesce! And, thanks for the congrats.

Norbert, I'm amazed you got this 'meeting' and look forward to what comes out of it...do you plan on reporting back here?

If I am not buried under the bowels of the Whit I will have a full report. My goal is to have a conversation with him and not make this like I am with the Fosters but I want honesty. The pay in full while the regional was happening that we are hosting was the final straw for me.

I know that for the most part on ice is his domain, recruiting, coaching, ect but there are external forces also that impact this. I also want to relay to him that as STH and fans there is a disconnect.

If I am the only one who feels this please let me know so I can speak for myself but I feel that as a small collective group that since the team started to suck and add in the lack of availability once the Friends were kicked out has put a big divide between what once was a solid fan base.

 

[norbert]

Hopefully MS7 is not Chuck Murray as a burner account and has all the answers, but here is where I am at:

1. 3 years as an assistant and heading into your 6th year as HC, how do you evaluate the program over this time period and is there any reflection from this that can lead to greater success moving forward
2. From a college hockey broad aspect, is HE a detriment or benefit to recruiting with realignment and expansion.
3. This is your last year, does this impact your recruiting and/or thought process for how to approach the season in terms of winning. And what is the goal? Are you thinking short and long term or all in?
4. The portal is something new for hockey and all of NCAA, are the losses a product of the team and its record or is it something that is now the new norm? As part of the portal you loss Fess and have someone who is on paper not an ideal DI goalie. Can Tyler handle the bulk of the load moving forward?
5. Recruiting has gone more international, more so Europe, than ever before. Is this the way of college hockey? Has the lack of success at UNH hampered the NE/Mass connection? Examples are the Saviano's and Collins that we used to get but no longer seem to get the blue collar hockey players.


STH Engagement. While this is a chicken egg argument there are things outside of on ice that might impact the program and I am not talking the weight room. These are items I would hope he brings across the street.

1. Lack of communication. I think the disbandment of the Friends has had a bigger impact than expected. They were kicked out while things were good, now that it has gone south there is no line of communication between fans, the team, and Admin. What can be done?
2. At least to me the removal of parking from a STH benefit hours before a game is a big deal. It irritates the sh!t out of me from a fan experience perspective, how can there be that big of disconnect between UNH and Athletics. this had to have been a long-term discussion, so either we are being lied to that this was last-minute decision or athletics held onto this until the end. Either way, it is a bad look.
3. The pay for your tickets now also irritates me to no end. The body is still warm from the end of the season and UNH is hosting a regional tournament which we are not at and the ask for 100% of the money. the "prizes" are a joke. All you have to do is go to the post game where they sign and you can get your picture or jersey done. How is this enticing?


One last question for this post to STH. For those who pay and go, what are your thoughts on them giving away tickets to youth hockey organizations for free throughout the season? I am buying my 4 again and will complain about it, but I would be glad if they have 1,000 tickets away per game to put butts in the seats. While no revenue from ticket sales, there will be concession sales that will help. My rationale for this is that when I talked to a handful of guys about the Maine weekend, they said from a player perspective it was amazing. It was a nervous situation at first as they never experience it, but during the game a full house provided a boost.

Before I bring this up, wanted to see what the consensus is.

And please please please someone take way my access as I think I have exceeded any amount of words Chuck has ever posted.

 

[Snively65]

Hopefully MS7 is not Chuck Murray as a burner account and has all the answers, but here is where I am at:

1. 3 years as an assistant and heading into your 6th year as HC, how do you evaluate the program over this time period and is there any reflection from this that can lead to greater success moving forward
2. From a college hockey broad aspect, is HE a detriment or benefit to recruiting with realignment and expansion.
3. This is your last year, does this impact your recruiting and/or thought process for how to approach the season in terms of winning. And what is the goal? Are you thinking short and long term or all in?
4. The portal is something new for hockey and all of NCAA, are the losses a product of the team and its record or is it something that is now the new norm? As part of the portal you loss Fess and have someone who is on paper not an ideal DI goalie. Can Tyler handle the bulk of the load moving forward?
5. Recruiting has gone more international, more so Europe, than ever before. Is this the way of college hockey? Has the lack of success at UNH hampered the NE/Mass connection? Examples are the Saviano's and Collins that we used to get but no longer seem to get the blue collar hockey players.


STH Engagement. While this is a chicken egg argument there are things outside of on ice that might impact the program and I am not talking the weight room. These are items I would hope he brings across the street.

1. Lack of communication. I think the disbandment of the Friends has had a bigger impact than expected. They were kicked out while things were good, now that it has gone south there is no line of communication between fans, the team, and Admin. What can be done?
2. At least to me the removal of parking from a STH benefit hours before a game is a big deal. It irritates the **** out of me from a fan experience perspective, how can there be that big of disconnect between UNH and Athletics. this had to have been a long-term discussion, so either we are being lied to that this was last-minute decision or athletics held onto this until the end. Either way, it is a bad look.
3. The pay for your tickets now also irritates me to no end. The body is still warm from the end of the season and UNH is hosting a regional tournament which we are not at and the ask for 100% of the money. the "prizes" are a joke. All you have to do is go to the post game where they sign and you can get your picture or jersey done. How is this enticing?


One last question for this post to STH. For those who pay and go, what are your thoughts on them giving away tickets to youth hockey organizations for free throughout the season? I am buying my 4 again and will complain about it, but I would be glad if they have 1,000 tickets away per game to put butts in the seats. While no revenue from ticket sales, there will be concession sales that will help. My rationale for this is that when I talked to a handful of guys about the Maine weekend, they said from a player perspective it was amazing. It was a nervous situation at first as they never experience it, but during the game a full house provided a boost.

Before I bring this up, wanted to see what the consensus is.

And please please please someone take way my access as I think I have exceeded any amount of words Chuck has ever posted.

Very comprehensive outline of questions, Norbert. I suggest that you pretend to be Al Pike at Foster’s, who MS7 should remember from when he was playing for Dick all those years ago. I liked your Jimmy Hoffa burial metaphor.

 

[After the Whistle]

Looks good Norbert! Can’t believe that he will sit through this. One thought - I fear that you will get a lot of fluff and clich?, coaches are like politicians and you never get substance or a straight answer. Therefore you may want to have some follow ups to insure more substance.
Good luck.

 

[NCAA watcher]

One more point under question 1 is more of an open essay. You spoke about what you viewed as the recruiting pitch in 2016, focusing largely on tradition and family. http://unhhockeyblog.blogspot.com/2016/08/ Has that changed, and what do you believe is important to recruits these days.

 

[Chuck Murray]

Y'know, if MS7 reads this board (likely he'd deny it), the interview should be a cakewalk. Kinda like an open book test.

If he still manages to flunk it, he'll have no one to blame but himself ...

 

[1BC]

Been lurking for years. Appreciate the insight all have shared. Can't not comment on this. My three questions would be -
1) Has UNH won or lost in the transfer portal in 2023? An email to alumni indicated sharing "truth" behind UNH portal implications. What is meant by that?
2) As the Head Coach are you the "closer" for high-end commits? Who owns the "offer amount and close" portion of recruiting?
3) There has been commentary about lack of player development at UNH. And that advisors may be steering potential recruits away from UNH b/c of stalled development. How do you reverse this potential headwind?

 

[norbert]

One more point under question 1 is more of an open essay. You spoke about what you viewed as the recruiting pitch in 2016, focusing largely on tradition and family. http://unhhockeyblog.blogspot.com/2016/08/ Has that changed, and what do you believe is important to recruits these days.

Noted. I talked with JB tonight, and he mentioned something similar in that we know there a things that don't help but how do you sell the program. What is the pitch today? Obviously tradition ends when you are the back of the bus team.

 

[norbert]

Looks good Norbert! Can’t believe that he will sit through this. One thought - I fear that you will get a lot of fluff and clich?, coaches are like politicians and you never get substance or a straight answer. Therefore you may want to have some follow ups to insure more substance.
Good luck.

the goal is to get real answers. it depends on how forthcoming MS7 wants to be. This could be a real good conversation or I could be tossed out in 12 minutes. Stay tuned for the recap. If it is before noon things like the season did not go swimmingly.

 

[norbert]

I am pretty sure this is more than I wrote for freshman English in 1995. Here is the updated talking points tomorrow.

Train leaves at 9ish for Durham, if you don't hear back from me by noon please send out the calvary.

1. 3 years as an assistant and heading into your 6th year as HC, how do you evaluate the program over this time period and is there any reflection from this that can lead to greater success moving forward
2. From a college hockey broad aspect, is HE a detriment or benefit to recruiting with realignment and expansion.
3. This is your last year, does this impact you’re recruiting and/or thought process for how to approach the season in terms of winning. And what is the goal? Are you thinking short and long term or all in?
4. The portal is something new for hockey and all of NCAA, are the losses a product of the team and its record or is it something that is now the new norm? As part of the portal, you lost Fess and have Jakob who is on paper not an ideal DI goalie. Can Tyler handle the bulk of the load moving forward? Chase being gone is some leadership lost, Damien started to come into his own the end of the year and we have added a goalie, are there more potential pull-ins or is the class coming going to fill the roster.
5. Recruiting has gone more international, more so Europe, than ever before. Is this the way of college hockey? Has the lack of success at UNH hampered the NE/Mass connection? Examples are Saviano’s and Collins that we used to get but no longer seem to get the blue collar hockey players. Has the lack of success steered top recruits away knowing player development might be lacking?
What is the UNH sales pitch? In 2016 you wanted kids to understand the tradition and playing here is an honor, does that still stand?

6. How much conversation have you had with AD Rich about the program, UNH, and the needs to make this successful? I understand money for weight room, accommodations, ect is probably at the forefront, but are there other things that Marty might have held you back on? Is she fully supportive of the process, the coaches and the program? What about UNH/Admissions, ect that are other outside influences that impact the program.


STH Engagement. While this is a chicken egg argument there are things outside of on ice that might impact the program and I am not talking the weight room. These are items I would hope he brings across the street.

1. Lack of communication. I think the disbandment of the Friends has had a bigger impact than expected. They were kicked out while things were good, now that it has gone south there is no line of communication between fans, the team, and Admin. What can be done?
2. At least to me the removal of parking from a STH benefit hours before a game is a big deal. It irritates the **** out of me from a fan experience perspective, how can there be that big of disconnect between UNH and Athletics. This had to have been a long-term discussion, so either we are being lied to that this was last-minute decision or athletics held onto this until the end. Either way, it is a bad look.
3. The pay for your tickets now also irritates me to no end. The body is still warm from the end of the season and UNH is hosting a regional tournament which we are not at and they ask for 100% of the money. the "prizes" are a joke. All you have to do is go to the post game where they sign, and you can get your picture or jersey done. How is this enticing?

 

[Chuck Murray]

So ... let's say one of his players or assistants has tipped off MS7, who is scrolling through these questions over coffee this a.m. ...

I am pretty sure this is more than I wrote for freshman English in 1995. Here is the updated talking points tomorrow.

Train leaves at 9ish for Durham, if you don't hear back from me by noon please send out the calvary.

1. 3 years as an assistant and heading into your 6th year as HC, how do you evaluate the program over this time period and is there any reflection from this that can lead to greater success moving forward

Norbie, as you know, with COVID and the advent of the portal, it's been a time of change and upheaval in the D-1 hockey world. We've made the necessary adjustments now. And with our new AD, we're ready to reap the benefits.

2. From a college hockey broad aspect, is HE a detriment or to recruiting with realignment and expansion.

Hockey East has always been the most competitive league in college hockey, we've always had to battle to get the best recruits, and I don't think it's any different now than when I was a player.

3. This is your last year, does this impact you’re recruiting and/or thought process for how to approach the season in terms of winning. And what is the goal? Are you thinking short and long term or all in?

(laughs) Are you my agent? I'm not sure where you're getting your info, but regardless, this year will be no different, we're always approaching recruiting as a long-term building process.

4. The portal is something new for hockey and all of NCAA, are the losses a product of the team and its record or is it something that is now the new norm? As part of the portal, you lost Fess and have Jakob who is on paper not an ideal DI goalie. Can Tyler handle the bulk of the load moving forward? Chase being gone is some leadership lost, Damien started to come into his own the end of the year and we have added a goalie, are there more potential pull-ins or is the class coming going to fill the roster.

We're all ... all D-1 coaches, "we" ... we're all still adjusting to this portal option. I'm not going to get into specific details of players coming in or leaving, it's all very player-specific from person to person. You mention the goalies though, and before you jump to conclusions about Jakob I'd only ask that you think back to what were probably low expectations for David (Fessenden). That turned out pretty good for us, no?

5. Recruiting has gone more international, more so Europe, than ever before. Is this the way of college hockey? Has the lack of success at UNH hampered the NE/Mass connection? Examples are Saviano’s and Collins that we used to get but no longer seem to get the blue collar hockey players. Has the lack of success steered top recruits away knowing player development might be lacking?

First question ... I think D-1 hockey has become a more international proposition, way past just the US and Canada now. Also, I'm not sure I agree with you on us being able to get the so-called "blue collar" kids. I was probably one of those kids when I was a player, and I think our message still resonates there. If I'm being honest, we've temporarily lost some traction with the top end kids. We're all working on that.

What is the UNH sales pitch? In 2016 you wanted kids to understand the tradition and playing here is an honor, does that still stand?

It's a great message, Norbie. I still bleed UNH Blue. So does Glenn and Ty, and we're working on Jeff (chuckle) ...

6. How much conversation have you had with AD Rich about the program, UNH, and the needs to make this successful? I understand money for weight room, accommodations, ect is probably at the forefront, but are there other things that Marty might have held you back on? Is she fully supportive of the process, the coaches and the program? What about UNH/Admissions, ect that are other outside influences that impact the program.

I don't want to get into too many specifics of private conversations with the current or prior AD. Marty was very supportive during his time in charge, and I have a strong working relationship with Alison now, too. I've always believed our AD's have been doing the best they can for us within the overall framwork of Athletics' role in the overall campus planning process. That being said, we're working to make it even better.

STH Engagement. While this is a chicken egg argument there are things outside of on ice that might impact the program and I am not talking the weight room. These are items I would hope he brings across the street.

...

1. Lack of communication. I think the disbandment of the Friends has had a bigger impact than expected. They were kicked out while things were good, now that it has gone south there is no line of communication between fans, the team, and Admin. What can be done?

Norb, I'm not sure why Friends was disbanded. My understanding is that it was a bigger NCAA-wide regulatory change, and UNH had to make adjustments. I'd love to have them back yesterday, but that's outside my remit.

2. At least to me the removal of parking from a STH benefit hours before a game is a big deal. It irritates the **** out of me from a fan experience perspective, how can there be that big of disconnect between UNH and Athletics. This had to have been a long-term discussion, so either we are being lied to that this was last-minute decision or athletics held onto this until the end. Either way, it is a bad look.

Again, I think this one is over my pay grade, Norbey. The school is growing, and our footprint isn't, so I'm guessing the demand for spaces is a continuing challenge for the school to try to strike a balance. Maybe the needs of the students on campus are trumping those of the STH's? I don't blame you for being pi$$ed off - heck, it's cold during Hockey season - but I think it's part of a bigger discussion.

3. The pay for your tickets now also irritates me to no end. The body is still warm from the end of the season and UNH is hosting a regional tournament which we are not at and they ask for 100% of the money. the "prizes" are a joke. All you have to do is go to the post game where they sign, and you can get your picture or jersey done. How is this enticing?

(laughs) Again, I'm not sure I'm aware of the mechanics of renewals and offers and things like that. I'm trying to coach a hockey team here, and chasing around to all corners of North America, Europe and sometimes Asia to do my job. At some point, I gotta trust other folks to do their jobs right, I can't be a 24/7/365 guy for all things AND also sell tickets and concessions, y'know? Anyway, it's been a pleasure ...

Them's my predictions for today's give-and-take, and what will probably be a lot of "nibbling around the edges" answers that don't involve a lot of blame acceptance. I'll be on the road all day today, can't wait to read the actual outcome here.

 

[NCAA watcher]

So ... let's say one of his players or assistants has tipped off MS7, who is scrolling through these questions over coffee this a.m. ...



Them's my predictions for today's give-and-take, and what will probably be a lot of "nibbling around the edges" answers that don't involve a lot of blame acceptance. I'll be on the road all day today, can't wait to read the actual outcome here.

Seems like pretty accurate predicted responses. Then its on Norbie how much he wants to push back and follow up on uncomfortable facts.