UNH Hockey 2023 Off Season Thread Turn and Face the Strange

[Snively65]

Opportunity Cost... It is funny business (and make no mistake UNH wants to "act' like athletics is a business) right now has a hard time getting away from ROI. It is so mentally simple and the "complex" thinking around opportunity costs and options math seems to be lost on most finance folks these days.

The best retort I have ever heard to this is using a 401k example. If you need guaranteed return your 401k must all be in bonds, secure US Treasuries... Oh, that wouldn't meet fiduciary responsibility. Oh just Treasuries doesn't work because the pay back isn't enough, oh you are taking some risk with stocks...

Isn't this kind of the same thing. Souza is basically a guaranteed return next year, cost certainty, also as we see basically revenue certainty. We know the current loss structure and taking on more cost doesn't make sense ... Yet that just delays the return to profitability...

I do not think that MS7 can make any kind of guarantee that his team will have double-digit wins again next season. Sean’s table showing lost ticket revenues over the past 15 years says everything AD Rich needs to know. An increase in just 637 tickets sold per game (assuming $24 per ticket) could buyout MS7’s $240k contract this coming year. Make the coaching change announcement now, and my bet for a beer at Mindy’s is that those increased ticket sales could be realized. As Chuck says, AD Rich has two weeks to act; the time clock is loudly ticking.

 

[deltabravo62]

Well it's not much but if the move away from Souza is made I will commit to renewing my previously released season tickets. My reason for giving them up was no one committing to providing a better product. Making this move will be a sign that someone wants to see better. As it was said, this season would not suddenly become a winner but it would be one less year wasted in an attempt to return to success. I don't plan to wait until UNH is a winner, I'm ready to return when UNH is willing to make a much needed change, support the program through that change, and hopefully see the long term benefits.

While my two tickets don't "move the needle", for any UNH Athletics employees who read this thread... I can tell you there are hundreds who are waiting for you to make your move. Give them a reason to come back.

 

[Whalers]

Movie - Enemy at the Gate - story about the all out defense of Stalingrad by the Russians in WW2. Khrushchev (played by Bob Hoskins) is railing at the Army "leaders" that shooting their own soldiers who wont engage the germans is not working, any ideas?

Danilov - "Give them hope! We must give them hope, pride, a desire to fight. We must make them believe in the victory. Yes, we need to make examples, yes, but examples to follow. What we need, are heroes."

AD Rich - Make the tough choice. No more flapping in the wind coaching (AND RECRUITING) lameness, shrink the rink, better jumbotron talk. The greater Durham area is littered with with the corpses of fallen season ticket comrades. Make us believe! GIVE US HOPE!!!

 

[Chuck Murray]

Well it's not much but if the move away from Souza is made I will commit to renewing my previously released season tickets. My reason for giving them up was no one committing to providing a better product. Making this move will be a sign that someone wants to see better. As it was said, this season would not suddenly become a winner but it would be one less year wasted in an attempt to return to success. I don't plan to wait until UNH is a winner, I'm ready to return when UNH is willing to make a much needed change, support the program through that change, and hopefully see the long term benefits.

While my two tickets don't "move the needle", for any UNH Athletics employees who read this thread... I can tell you there are hundreds who are waiting for you to make your move. Give them a reason to come back.

We haven't held season tickets since the Snively days, but if they make the change NOW, I'll jump in for at least two more, and with other family members still sidelined, that could easily double or even triple in a year or two.

There are indeed hundreds, more likely thousands of stranded fans, just like us. And yes, give us hope. NOW.

 

[HockeyRef]

Bummer...I had 'slim' hopes that former BU tender Vinnie D would come our way (pipe dreamin' at best) but he chooses the National Champs??? The NERVE of that guy!! Seriously
good for him and of course its still early in the game and I'm sure we are going to fill our vacancies, but, it would be nice to have, oh, I don't know, something, anything
positive for us. I feel like Dorothy asking the Wizard 'I guess there's nothing in that black bag for me'. Boo hoo!

I did renew my two tickets; am in it for the social piece haha. Personally, I am 100% certain that we will have another season of MS7; I have great doubts he will
have his contract bought out. I mean, here's how it's going to go...when the funds are in place to improve the 'Whitt, the promise will be 'just give us a couple of years'
to use these improvements for recruiting. THEN you are going to see us really do some damage. (Ignoring the obvious damage already done). BAM...extension. (worse case
scenario) But, I do feel encouraged by the moves made by AD Rich. We'll see how that pans out as far as hockey goes. Next season is do or die I'd think for
the Souza Experiment.

I hope that someone will consider printing out all of Sean's info and sent it certified mail so that someone at the U has to go and sign for it...as
if they don't already know the lost revenues over the past seasons.

Of course, I continue to hope for the best...and really feel guilty writing posts like this because the team/players themselves are the most important piece in all of this.
I hope they know that the fans are "right behind them". (goalie cheer reference)

 

[Chuck Murray]

I did renew my two tickets; am in it for the social piece haha. Personally, I am 100% certain that we will have another season of MS7; I have great doubts he will
have his contract bought out. I mean, here's how it's going to go...when the funds are in place to improve the 'Whitt, the promise will be 'just give us a couple of years' to use these improvements for recruiting. THEN you are going to see us really do some damage. (Ignoring the obvious damage already done).

BAM...extension. (worse case scenario) But, I do feel encouraged by the moves made by AD Rich. We'll see how that pans out as far as hockey goes. Next season is do or die I'd think for the Souza Experiment.

With all due respect, Souza got his "couple of years" from Blue Skies on the latter's way out the door. He already has had the benefits of the new scoreboard, ribbon controller, shrunken rink, new ice plant, and several other improvements. Of note, there's one notable aspect of UNH Hockey that is NOT improving. THE TEAM'S TALENT LEVEL AND ITS COACHING. AD Rich would have to be dumber than a box of rocks not to see the shortcomings that most obviously need to be addressed. And based on her decision to not ride on with the school's greatest Men's Hoops head coach, I see a stronger personality than I suspected. So once we go through that logic ... why do we not "rip off the bandaid" NOW and get this thing fixed??

 

[HockeyRef]

With all due respect, Souza got his "couple of years" from Blue Skies on the latter's way out the door. He already has had the benefits of the new scoreboard, ribbon controller, shrunken rink, new ice plant, and several other improvements. Of note, there's one notable aspect of UNH Hockey that is NOT improving. THE TEAM'S TALENT LEVEL AND ITS COACHING. AD Rich would have to be dumber than a box of rocks not to see the shortcomings that most obviously need to be addressed. And based on her decision to not ride on with the school's greatest Men's Hoops head coach, I see a stronger personality than I suspected. So once we go through that logic ... why do we not "rip off the bandaid" NOW and get this thing fixed??

Hey I'm in full agreement with all that's been written, trust me. I try to look at these things in a way that IF it happens, I wasn't surprised, haha. You don't have to sell me on the issue...

So, if AD Rich doesn't 'rip off the bandaid' now, does she go from "wonder woman" to "dumber than a box of rocks"? I don't see her as either, but I do like what I've seen so far (I know this issue isn't about her). Not sure...she'd go the bandaid route (but wow, if she did, I mean).

One thing I do know, is that she has become fully versed on the issue. How can she not be? It's fairly obvious.

 

[Snively65]

Bummer...I had 'slim' hopes that former BU tender Vinnie D would come our way (pipe dreamin' at best) but he chooses the National Champs??? The NERVE of that guy!! Seriously
good for him and of course its still early in the game and I'm sure we are going to fill our vacancies, but, it would be nice to have, oh, I don't know, something, anything
positive for us. I feel like Dorothy asking the Wizard 'I guess there's nothing in that black bag for me'. Boo hoo!

Bentley portal seniors Cole Kodsi (F), Joe Winkleman (F), and Hunter Toale (D) are still available, although other three have been snapped up by UMass-Flagship and Maine.

 

[Robert Balin]

Nico Divita is the first UNH player picked up bye Ferris State. I guess no one wants to come to Durham...lol

 

[Dan]

Nico Divita is the first UNH player picked up bye Ferris State. I guess no one wants to come to Durham...lol

Who is his advisor? Eddie Caron?

 

[Snively65]

Nico Divita is the first UNH player picked up bye Ferris State. I guess no one wants to come to Durham...lol

What about Will Margel and Cade Penney?

 

[Robert Balin]

Who is his advisor? Eddie Caron?

Ok now i see he came from Ferris lol. I don't think Carron ever played a game for Yale did he?

 

[Robert Balin]

What about Will Margel and Cade Penney?

Their both still available as of this morning.

 

[Chuck Murray]

One thing I do know, is that she has become fully versed on the issue. How can she not be? It's fairly obvious.

See, I agree 100%. So ... with that said, how can she want to tolerate this situation any longer? She's already sent a decent message to the rest of her coaches with the Herrion decision. If she wanted to take a suitably cautious "academia"-driven approach, she could have looked at Coach Herrion's several most recent seasons, viewed him as a borderline winning coach, and acknowledged the decent job he's done with less resources than virtually all of his competitors. A two-year extension with a dictate to get to an AE title game (and hopefully to an NCAA slot) would have been quite defensible. To her credit, she didn't go there. So Hoops restarts with Coach Davis, who is arguably a younger knock-off version of Coach Herrion himself. Good for Davis, good for Rich, and really good for UNH.

So with Rich fully versed on the issue - how can she not be - it's fairly obvious ... MS7 comes to the end of Year Eight back in Durham. Five of those years, he's been in charge, and enjoyed the added bonus of three years as lead recruiter/assistant HC under Coach Umile, and for someone whom his mentor praised as a recruiting "wizard" or whatever, he's been anything but. Worse yet, he's proven to be even worse at developing his recruits, and it's gotten to the point where key players are regularly departing via the portal, which as it turns out is yet another aspect of the job that Souza has shown no aptitude for. So, you have to ask yourself ... how is it that this guy who has no discernable talent in the position, and has accomplished absolutely nothing over 8 years, is going to be reasonably expected to turn a sow's ear into a silk purse in Year Six (Nine)?

The answer is simple - there is NO reason to hope anything will change in the next 12 months. A year ago, some on here were speculating that UNH had finally hit bottom. I said NO - there was further to go to the bottom. This past season proved I was right on that forecast. And I STILL don't think UNH has hit bottom yet. It IS in sight, though, as even borderline portal suspects go to other programs and UNH twists in the wind. I think it was Snives who said earlier today or yesterday that single digit wins is foreseeable for the upcoming season, and I agree 100%. But for a 30-40 day stretch in early '23, this year's team was already at that level. The proverbial "light at the end of the tunnel" turns out to be the steaming freight train, speeding head-first at 90 MPH. The question isn't "Will it be a mess?" - it's "How messy will it be?"

One of our posters (I forget who, sorry!) predicted that one of the guys on MS7's staff would be leaving shortly. I can only hope that AD Rich has made that a condition of MS7's continued employment for the '23/'24 season, but even if it is, to what end does it serve? If it's a message that she wants MS7 to resign now, out of his refusal to part with Stewart and/or Guiliano, and that news is coming soon, then good for her. If it's just her way of kicking the can down the road to revert to a more cautious "academia"-driven separation at the end of the contract, maybe I've overestimated her drive to restore Hockey to its rightful place at or near the top of the UNH Athletics pyramid, sooner rather than later.

Let's see what happens between now and the end of the month. I'm trying to be optimistic here, but it's tough ...

 

[Snively65]

Now that the NHL regular season is over for our five UNH alums, it is time to see where these five now stand all time in UNH alum NHL stats.

JvR with 14 NHL seasons is now tied for second with Dan Winnik behind Rod Langway and Steve Leach at 15. JvR’s 940 games played is second to Langway’s 994, so JvR needs another one-year contract somewhere to surpass Langway. JvR’s 300 goals (speaking of NRN’s) remains tops, with Bob Gould a distant second with 145. JvR’s 591 points are far ahead of Langway’s 329. Langway remains in third place in pen mins at 849 (to Jay Miller’s 1723 and Steve Leach’s 978) and second in assists and points at 278 and 329, respectively.

Brett Pesce with eight NHL seasons, 557 games, 36 goals, 188 points, and 207 pen mins under his belt remains in sixth place, below Bob Gould’s 697 games played.

TvR with nine NHL seasons, 531 games, 24 goals, 112 points, and 159 pen mins remains in seventh place, extending his lead over Jay Miller’s 446 games played.

Warren Foegele with five NHL seasons, 349 games, 60 goals, 122 points, and 126 pen mins jumped from 16th to 12th place in games played, leapfrogging Norman Lacombe (319), Peter Douris (321), Kevin Dean (331), and Jaime Hislop (345), and now trails Andy Brickley (385) and Bob Miller (446).

Finally, Casey DeSmith with five NHL seasons, 134 games, 2.81 GAA, 0.912 Sv%, and 58-44-15 record jumped into 23rd place over Bobby Butler’s 130 games. CDS still trails Ty Conkiln’s 216 games, 2.69 GAA, 0.906 Sv%, and 96-67-21 record over parts of eight seasons.

 

[Chuck Murray]

Thanks for bringing us up to speed on the UNH alums, Snives. I'll give JvR this much ... he's gotten to 300 career NHL goals, which is nothing to sniff at. But he's spent most of the latter stages of his career being a "big fish" in a small pond, and in some ways may have indirectly gotten his GM fired in Philly (Chuck Fletcher was fired shortly after an unsuccessful trade deadline, when he apparently got no concrete offers for JvR; see following linked article below). His production has been on the downturn for most of his latest 5 year deal in Philly, which has now terminated, and his NHL future is looking decidedly dim and uncertain.

Flyers GM Chuck Fletcher fails to trade James van Riemsdyk, forced to defend his job - NBC Sports Philadelphia

I suspect he'll find a taker somewhere, and will probably eke past Langway in games played, but I suspect you're right, Snives - a modest one year deal as a leader on a young building team OR as a bottom six/power play specialist on a decent team seems the two likeliest options for the soon-to-be 34 year old. I think I read somewhere that Yzerman may have been the guy offering the conditional deal - with the Wings trading two LW players (Bertuzzi and Vrana) at the deadline, they had at least a temporary need - but nonetheless withdrew the offer. Whether he'll come back now that the price has dropped remains to be seen.

TvR on the other hand just had his best NHL season, with a career-high in goals (7), assists (16) and points (23) albeit on an aging Washington squad, and just signed a brand new three-year extension to stay on for what looks like the start of a very long rebuild at some point. As a right shot defenseman, both TvR and Pesce (the prize of the UNH NHL litter) will be in demand for the foreseeable future.

DeSmith signed a two year extension in Pittsburgh last summer, but with the nuking of their front office the other day, who knows if he'll be in the new management team's long term plans? But he's established himself as a pretty reliable NHL back-up, so his future looks pretty bright regardless. Foegele just turned 27, and is one year into a three-year deal he signed to play on the bottom six up front in Edmonton. We keep waiting for a 20 goal production level to pop out of him one of these years, but he should eventually surpass Winnik's career scoring, if not get there with the games played, but he's a plus player on a good team, and could make an unlikely long NHL run for a guy who couldn't count on dressing during his all-too-short UNH stint.

In the minors ... Poturalski had a short unimpressive season (injuries?), and sadly is going the way of Darren Haydar - without the historical AHL output - as he will be turning 30 early next year. Gildon also seems to be stuck in a similar rut ... he's still only 23, but his organization will want to see some progress soon. Crookshank had a very good season in the AHL, but with an Ottawa organization stacked with young forwards he may be "wrong place/wrong time" like Poturalski was when he was progressing through the Carolina organization. He turns 24 early next season, so he's under some pressure to produce and advance, too.

Predictions? Pesce will eventually blow past all of the endurance marks for UNH alums, and may catch Langway's scoring too, but I don't see any Norris Trophy in his future (he'll live). DeSmith will probably outlast Conklin. And Crookie will probably be the next UNH NHL'er within the next 12 months. I think the toughest prediction left on the table going forwards is, of the current roster, will ANY UNH player get a sniff at the NHL? Methinks not, but strange things do happen ...

 

[Snively65]

So hard to predict.

Petrasiak, Ayers, Foster, Regan, Robinson, Taylor all NHL-drafted, and hardly played in NHL. Conklin and DeSmith not NHL-drafted.

JvR NHL-drafted #2 overall, Pesce #66, Foegele #67, but TvR not NHL-drafted.

NHL-drafted on 2022-23 roster: Blaisdell, Reid, Sardarian, Gagne, Muszelik. Maybe Gagne has best chance for playing in NHL? Devlin and LeClerc not yet NHL-drafted.

 

[Chuck Murray]

So hard to predict.

Petrasiak, Ayers, Foster, Regan, Robinson, Taylor all NHL-drafted, and hardly played in NHL. Conklin and DeSmith not NHL-drafted.

JvR NHL-drafted #2 overall, Pesce #66, Foegele #67, but TvR not NHL-drafted.

NHL-drafted on 2022-23 roster: Blaisdell, Reid, Sardarian, Gagne, Muszelik. Maybe Gagne has best chance for playing in NHL? Devlin and LeClerc not yet NHL-drafted.

The only guy currently on the roster who I'd even give a slim chance to would be Huard. He's got NHL pedigree, and oftentimes that ends up counting for a lot. Most of those NHL draftees you listed Snives are probably destined for the Coast. None of those guys even approaches the likes of Poturalski, Gildon or Crookshank. Sad but true. JMHO.

 

[HockeyRef]

The only guy currently on the roster who I'd even give a slim chance to would be Huard. He's got NHL pedigree, and oftentimes that ends up counting for a lot. Most of those NHL draftees you listed Snives are probably destined for the Coast. None of those guys even approaches the likes of Poturalski, Gildon or Crookshank. Sad but true. JMHO.

I know that most here disparage the 'coast' league but at least, they are still skating. Today for instance Mike Robinson won a big game (with the help of Patrick Grasso)
for the Thunder so that they could go post season. Looking at some of these rosters, I see plenty of former HE players. Wish we still had hockey in Manchester. Used to love
going to Monarch games to see some of our former players...And, this season Grasso (and I think Robinson at least once) skated in the AHL for a few games.

That said...go Bruins!!!

 

[Chuck Murray]

I know that most here disparage the 'coast' league but at least, they are still skating. Today for instance Mike Robinson won a big game (with the help of Patrick Grasso) for the Thunder so that they could go post season. Looking at some of these rosters, I see plenty of former HE players.

I'm not sure "disparage" is the right word, 'Ref. Keep in mind, though, that Josh Ciocco related at some point in an interview that he quit playing and got into coaching because (to paraphrase) "the guys weren't trying hard enough to win" at the ECHL level. Rosters there tend to be pretty "seat of the pants" propositions, and most players are NOT NHL properties at that level. Some players I'm sure compete as if their next game could well be their last - which in many cases is often true - but others are there to do a job, get paid, and don't have compelling options outside of the game (yet). The movie Slapshot remains to this day a pretty accurate representation of 'Coast hockey, albeit with far less fighting today. Guys at all different stages of their careers, most hanging on for that paycheck and little else, as 'Coast players rarely get up to the NHL level.

Wish we still had hockey in Manchester. Used to love going to Monarch games to see some of our former players...And, this season Grasso (and I think Robinson at least once) skated in the AHL for a few games.

It's not all that unusual for 'Coast regulars to get brought in to cover for AHL emergency situations that an organization's own contracted players cannot satisfy. Often, it's nothing more than a player who happens to be in the area, and fills a need. I used to work with a guy who was uncle to a UNH player during the Krog era, and post-grad he also gave the low minors a try for a couple of years (didn't do that well), but for years after that, he was on a lot of will-call lists for 'Coast AND AHL teams if there was an emergency needs for a spare set of skates.

But most kids seem to have a pretty good idea that if you're playing in the 'Coast at a certain point, that's going to be it, and it's time either to go find a real world job (something a little easier for college players to successfully pull off) OR head overseas to a suitably minor Euro league to further prolong the inevitable end of the dream. For many, they play on despite the dream having already died ... and that's how someone like Ciocco would come into an environment where motivation was spotty at best. Make of it what you will.