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UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2016 and Beyond

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Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2016 and Beyond

Have you not been reading this thread the past few months, e.cat? :rolleyes:

Sounds like too much work to sift through how many pages? and piece together something that is more useful than just names on a list. I was kinda hoping that the recruiting gurus would already have that info. So your telling me I'm left to own devices to glean this stuff huh?
 
Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2016 and Beyond

So if I'm reading this correctly, there are two holes to fill for the upcoming season. Will they be filled?

Of the crop coming in for the upcoming season who should we expect to see playing a regular shift? Who's hot and who's not? Are there any NHL picks in this group?

If you know please enlighten us? If not well I guess I'LL have to dig deeper and report back. To me these are just names on a list. It tells me nothing about whether this crop is good or not so good or just plain pedestrian!

I would have expected them to bring in help for next year, just based on the gaps, but Poturalski leaving this early was a surprise, so no real ability to bring someone in. They had more notice with Foegele, but also didn't get help for that hole, so they will be pretty shorthanded up front. The counter to that is that the graduating class is easy to replace, and the incoming talent is pretty good. No All-Rookie team members, but not the 3rd/4th line types. Grasso and Fegona have offensive skills, but are very small (5'7) and not elite Gionta electrifying sorts. Think Saviano sort of upside.
Blackburn is a good puck distributor, smart and vision, but his skating needs work to get to this level, and will hold him back from being an elite forward. Charlie Kelleher is not at Tyler's level, but a good initial energy kid with some puck skills, a slight bit less than Nazarian. BVR has size to get dirty goals, but a very poor man's Marcus Vela. Sacco is just depth, presumably (hopefully) not getting any scholarship money, but a chance to play because of the holes up front.

Wyse will be an upgrade over Quast.

Looking further into the future, the talent drop off is more pronounced. If you read Bomberhockey, Hockeydad and others, those kids who had All-Hockey East level talent (Farabee and Ryczek) or options left. Most of the remainder have underperformed in juniors, many to a significant degree where one questions if they can contribute meaningfully. If you read the pro-Souza UNH1932, UNH will be honoring its commitments to kids. A noble thing, but a very hard hole to get out of in today's NCAA. It is no surprise that North Dakota has top talent when they can just walk from their 16 year old commitment busts (Pelnik, Crisfield, Cakebread, D.Mattson, Voltin, Rowe, Mantha). This allows them to jump on kids who drop their commitments elsewhere (Boeser, Stecher). Last year's winner, Providence, walked from Aldworth, Cam Lee, Alvaro, Logan Day, Amorosa, McLaughlin. That allows them to get Ryzek, Conway and Duhaime. BU has cut MacTavish, Polesello, Kurker, Collier, Myron, Duane, Piccinich, Starrett, Coughlin. It is the way business is done these days. Honoring its commitments will have a potential longer term payoff, but it hurts in the immediate horizon.

The biggest need for upgrade seems to be Defense. Darcy has not developed quite the upside hoped, but gets decent grades from Central Scouting and from guys I've talked to as a steady 4/5 defenseman. Corson Green has lots of positive reviews for his raw skills, though he has yet to play in a competitive league. Bahn is a wildcard, with little pedigree. Up front, longer term, Crookshank gets very good reivews, though a notch below "blue chippah." Esposito probably gets the most upside, playing as a senior in the USHL. His stats were disappointing, but he has two years to assume a bigger role. Cipollone and Jason O'Neil were decent midget scorers, but not of the sort where you would be surprised at their low first year Junior stats. I don't see a lot of upside there, I'd say they are Jamie Hill sorts. And Aaron O'neill has just not developed even though he was a USNDPT camp invitee.
 
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Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2016 and Beyond

The Grandfather is telling me that another grandson of his who commIted to Michigan was also recruited by UNH. He went on to say that the grandson didn't choose UNH because the word on the street was that Umile was not perceived as a player's coach.

I know you said that the grandfather might have had an agenda, but the statement is ludicrous. One of the main criticisms of Umile is that he falls in love with his players too much. It's true that freshmen by and large have to earn their playing time regardless of talent, but once you're a senior, it takes a nuclear war to get demoted or benched. The bottom line in all this is that recruiting is a sleazy business, guys go around bad mouthing other programs regardless of their success. It will take a special talent to convince 15 year olds and their parents that UNH is the place to come. However it has been done before and we can only hope it will be done again.
 
Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2016 and Beyond

I would have expected them to bring in help for next year, just based on the gaps, but Poturalski leaving this early was a surprise, so no real ability to bring someone in. They had more notice with Foegele, but also didn't get help for that hole, so they will be pretty shorthanded up front. The counter to that is that the graduating class is easy to replace, and the incoming talent is pretty good. No All-Rookie team members, but not the 3rd/4th line types. Grasso and Fegona have offensive skills, but are very small (5'7) and not elite Gionta electrifying sorts. Think Saviano sort of upside.
Blackburn is a good puck distributor, smart and vision, but his skating needs work to get to this level, and will hold him back from being an elite forward. Charlie Kelleher is not at Tyler's level, but a good initial energy kid with some puck skills, a slight bit less than Nazarian. BVR has size to get dirty goals, but a very poor man's Marcus Vela. Sacco is just depth, presumably (hopefully) not getting any scholarship money, but a chance to play because of the holes up front.

Wyse will be an upgrade over Quast.

Looking further into the future, the talent drop off is more pronounced. If you read Bomberhockey, Hockeydad and others, those kids who had All-Hockey East level talent (Farabee and Ryczek) or options left. Most of the remainder have underperformed in juniors, many to a significant degree where one questions if they can contribute meaningfully. If you read the pro-Souza UNH1932, UNH will be honoring its commitments to kids. A noble thing, but a very hard hole to get out of in today's NCAA. It is no surprise that North Dakota has top talent when they can just walk from their 16 year old commitment busts (Pelnik, Crisfield, Cakebread, D.Mattson, Voltin, Rowe, Mantha). This allows them to jump on kids who drop their commitments elsewhere (Boeser, Stecher). Last year's winner, Providence, walked from Aldworth, Cam Lee, Alvaro, Logan Day, Amorosa, McLaughlin. That allows them to get Ryzek, Conway and Duhaime. BU has cut MacTavish, Polesello, Kurker, Collier, Myron, Duane, Piccinich, Starrett, Coughlin. It is the way business is done these days. Honoring its commitments will have a potential longer term payoff, but it hurts in the immediate horizon.

The biggest need for upgrade seems to be Defense. Darcy has not developed quite the upside hoped, but gets decent grades from Central Scouting and from guys I've talked to as a steady 4/5 defenseman. Corson Green has lots of positive reviews for his raw skills, though he has yet to play in a competitive league. Bahn is a wildcard, with little pedigree. Up front, longer term, Crookshank gets very good reivews, though a notch below "blue chippah." Esposito probably gets the most upside, playing as a senior in the USHL. His stats were disappointing, but he has two years to assume a bigger role. Cipollone and Jason O'Neil were decent midget scorers, but not of the sort where you would be surprised at their low first year Junior stats. I don't see a lot of upside there, I'd say they are Jamie Hill sorts. And Aaron O'neill has just not developed even though he was a USNDPT camp invitee.

Thank you Watcher. Very helpful indeed. I'll need some time to digest this info but to me on the face of it from what you are saying, this group for the upcoming season anyway, does not look as bad as some are leading us to believe. Not great but not bad either. I'm not as worried about subsequent years as I feel Souza needs more time to develop his pipeline which he will I think. Thanks again!
 
Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2016 and Beyond

I know you said that the grandfather might have had an agenda, but the statement is ludicrous. One of the main criticisms of Umile is that he falls in love with his players too much. It's true that freshmen by and large have to earn their playing time regardless of talent, but once you're a senior, it takes a nuclear war to get demoted or benched. The bottom line in all this is that recruiting is a sleazy business, guys go around bad mouthing other programs regardless of their success. It will take a special talent to convince 15 year olds and their parents that UNH is the place to come. However it has been done before and we can only hope it will be done again.

Absolutely! I agree! I basically told the guy to eff off in not so colorful language but he got the point. The guy was well connected in college hockey circles and basically was floating a false narrative. This how perceptions like this start. Hoky is trying to float the same narrative IMHO!
 
Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2016 and Beyond

Interesting stuff today and appreciate the detailed explanations 'Watcher. So, you are saying that indeed, programs tell kids 'sorry, not sorry'. (well, not that blunt I'm sure, not in this day and age) That must happen because they unearth something better? Has UNH ever done that, I mean...highly doubtful we aren't in the "beggars can't be choosers" bracket when it comes to recruiting! :eek: Maybe over the summer we can pick up a player or two that de-commits somewhere else to fill the two slots you list as vacant for the coming season. I'm with you e.cat cautiously optimistic about this season...expecting better than last at least, with a few more wins sprinkled in and maybe a better HE showing. Verizon bound? hmmmmmmm
 
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Interesting stuff today and appreciate the detailed explanations 'Watcher. So, you are saying that indeed, programs tell kids 'sorry, not sorry'. (well, not that blunt I'm sure, not in this day and age) That must happen because they unearth something better? Has UNH ever done that, I mean...highly doubtful we aren't in the "beggars can't be choosers" bracket when it comes to recruiting! :eek: Maybe over the summer we can pick up a player or two that de-commits somewhere else to fill the two slots you list as vacant for the coming season. I'm with you e.cat cautiously optimistic about this season...expecting better than last at least, with a few more wins sprinkled in and maybe a better HE showing. Verizon bound? hmmmmmmm

The biggest concern I have for the upcoming season is lack of senior leadership depth!
 
Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2016 and Beyond

BU has cut MacTavish, Polesello, Kurker, Collier, Myron, Duane, Piccinich, Starrett, Coughlin. It is the way business is done these days.
It looks like BU Jr Robbie Baillargeon will be looking for a place to play next season.

The post about Baillargeon was only half right; he wasn’t cut, however the bottom line is he won’t be back for next season. According to two good sources, Quinn told him it would be very difficult for him to get top six time next year and they mutually agreed that he look at other options. Because Robbie is able to graduate in August, he’ll be able to pursue the graduate transfer option and Quinn has been very supportive. As a result, he likely would be able to play for another team next season.
 
It looks like BU Jr Robbie Baillargeon will be looking for a place to play next season.

Former teammate of Matias Cleland with Omaha Lancers. 5th round draft pick of Ottawa Senators (Ottawa also drafted Shane Eiserman). Hockey East all-rookie team 2013-14.
 
Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2016 and Beyond

Interesting stuff today and appreciate the detailed explanations 'Watcher. So, you are saying that indeed, programs tell kids 'sorry, not sorry'. (well, not that blunt I'm sure, not in this day and age) That must happen because they unearth something better? Has UNH ever done that, I mean...highly doubtful we aren't in the "beggars can't be choosers" bracket when it comes to recruiting! :eek: Maybe over the summer we can pick up a player or two that de-commits somewhere else to fill the two slots you list as vacant for the coming season. I'm with you e.cat cautiously optimistic about this season...expecting better than last at least, with a few more wins sprinkled in and maybe a better HE showing. Verizon bound? hmmmmmmm

Let me be a little more nuanced than the "cutting non-productive recruits is bad, keeping them is noble." There certainly is a role for a frank conversation, realistically telling the player the obstacles they face, and the role they will likely play. We just saw this with BU's Robbie Baillargeon. It also serves the player, because of the NCAA transfer rules, if they show up and then don't want to stay at the school (balancing non-playing vs. scholarship), they would face a penalty if they leave. It would be better to have that conversation before hand, and some may choose to play a less competitve level, or closer to home.
The difficulty is that teams can use this as a tactic to scare off players before hand, so that the player doesn't eat up a scholarship. I mentioned BU, Providence and North Dakota, but BC also does it to a lesser degree -- Tiefenwerth, McMaster are examples. The only instance at UNH is Cody Campbell, the goalie, who UNH cut the scholarship promise and he then went elsewhere. Then there is the approach that you can honor the scholarship, and give the kid a chance, demonstrating for them how hard it will be for them. Eric Chevrier, Jason Kalinowski, are examples of this. Jamie Hill probably fit into this, but chose to stick it out, getting red shirted, and now being decent enough to get a fifth year.
So, rather than a black and white issue, its a sliding scale, with some teams plainly using the frank conversation to back out of promises. Where on the spectrum UNH will fall is interesting.

As for Furgele, we mentioned UNH's experience with 4 freshmen D in 1986-87, where they drove off two immediately (Babcock, Cournoyer), one left after a sophomore year (Schrader) and Mike Roth stuck it out even after he was cut in his junior year (he wanted to keep his scholarship money, and stayed in school.) I would not be surprised if UNH had indicated to Furgele that he didn't fit into their scheme. A couple more players might also fit into that category.
 
Sounds like too much work to sift through how many pages? and piece together something that is more useful than just names on a list. I was kinda hoping that the recruiting gurus would already have that info. So your telling me I'm left to own devices to glean this stuff huh?

Ha, ha, ha, e.cat. I am getting too flip with my replies, like those I use with my students (ex. What should I study for the exam?). But, you did tease out a really nice summary from Watcher; thanks, Watcher. :-)
 
Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2016 and Beyond

Getting rid of most EJHL guys is addition by subtraction as far as I'm concerned

This gives Furgele a chance to start his ECHL career (3rd pairing) a couple of seasons earlier than planned.
 
Ha, ha, ha, e.cat. I am getting too flip with my replies, like those I use with my students (ex. What should I study for the exam?). But, you did tease out a really nice summary from Watcher; thanks, Watcher. :-)

No worries Snively65. No offense taken. Thanks to Watcher for yeomans work for sure.

At least your student's parents aren't asking what Johnny needs to study. Just did a tax return for a Bentley student and her parents. I can see her parents grillng you on the tests though;)
 
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