UMaine Black Bears, 2nd verse same as the first 2016-2017

[Ma#1ne Hky]

Re: UMaine Black Bears, 2nd verse same as the first 2016-2017

Maine isn't making the NCAA tourney anytime soon. MBB is completely in the wilderness. The scary part is I think Walsh is actually a good coach, kids just don't want to come to Maine. Is there any money in WBB? I could be wrong, but I believe the guarantee games in football are going away in the next year or two. Attendance is up, but they play a lot fewer games and the tickets are much cheaper. Creech knows football and basketball more than hockey so it would make sense for him to favor those sports.

Is FOMH definitely gone?

FOMH is still around....but there monies are being used for other sports besides where they were donated to.

 

[Drew S.]

FOMH is still around....but there monies are being used for other sports besides where they were donated to.

That's completely ridiculous. If people are kind enough to donate the university should use the money for its intended purpose.

 

[UncleRay]

Re: UMaine Black Bears, 2nd verse same as the first 2016-2017

Designating a donation for a particular program is useless, unless total donations exceed the proposed budget.

Pretend there are only three teams at the U: hockey, BB, and football. Pretend that football has a $10MM budget, hockey $4MM, and BB $3MM. If $4MM is donor-designated for football, $2MM donor-designated for hockey, and $1MM donor designated for BB, the U makes up the difference in the budget, giving $6MM to football, $2MM to hockey, and $2MM to BB. If you come along and give $1MM to hockey, the only change is that the U then only has to come up with $1MM for hockey. It doesn't increase the hockey budget by $1MM. So whether your $1MM goes to hockey, football, or BB is completely immaterial. Donor-designated donations are a feel-good for the donor and just create accounting hassles for the U.

On the other hand, if you and all the other generous people who designate their donations to hockey give in excess of the $4MM budget, THEN the full amount has to go to hockey. But that is the only way that donor-designated gifts make a hoot of difference. And it is extraordinarily rare for any non-profit.

 

[dunbar]

Re: UMaine Black Bears, 2nd verse same as the first 2016-2017

I could be wrong, but I believe the guarantee games in football are going away in the next year or two. Attendance is up, but they play a lot fewer games and the tickets are much cheaper. Creech knows football and basketball more than hockey so it would make sense for him to favor those sports.

The Big Ten has changed their policy and will continue to schedule FCS games in years with four conference home games. The ACC and SEC will continue to schedule one or two FCS games a piece, particularly in Week 12 prior to rivarly week. Football ticket prices actually were raised last year (ironically the same year as the hockey prices dropped). Creech simply understands the greater collegiate athletic landscape.

I've said this before, unless the investment is being made to replace Alfond Arena, then there's no major investment worth putting into Maine Hockey. It's time to either put the "Old Girl" to sleep, or the program will die by itself.

 

[dunbar]

Re: UMaine Black Bears, 2nd verse same as the first 2016-2017

Designating a donation for a particular program is useless, unless total donations exceed the proposed budget.

Pretend there are only three teams at the U: hockey, BB, and football. Pretend that football has a $10MM budget, hockey $4MM, and BB $3MM. If $4MM is donor-designated for football, $2MM donor-designated for hockey, and $1MM donor designated for BB, the U makes up the difference in the budget, giving $6MM to football, $2MM to hockey, and $2MM to BB. If you come along and give $1MM to hockey, the only change is that the U then only has to come up with $1MM for hockey. It doesn't increase the hockey budget by $1MM. So whether your $1MM goes to hockey, football, or BB is completely immaterial. Donor-designated donations are a feel-good for the donor and just create accounting hassles for the U.

Exactly.

 

[Drew S.]

Re: UMaine Black Bears, 2nd verse same as the first 2016-2017

Designating a donation for a particular program is useless, unless total donations exceed the proposed budget.

Pretend there are only three teams at the U: hockey, BB, and football. Pretend that football has a $10MM budget, hockey $4MM, and BB $3MM. If $4MM is donor-designated for football, $2MM donor-designated for hockey, and $1MM donor designated for BB, the U makes up the difference in the budget, giving $6MM to football, $2MM to hockey, and $2MM to BB. If you come along and give $1MM to hockey, the only change is that the U then only has to come up with $1MM for hockey. It doesn't increase the hockey budget by $1MM. So whether your $1MM goes to hockey, football, or BB is completely immaterial. Donor-designated donations are a feel-good for the donor and just create accounting hassles for the U.

On the other hand, if you and all the other generous people who designate their donations to hockey give in excess of the $4MM budget, THEN the full amount has to go to hockey. But that is the only way that donor-designated gifts make a hoot of difference. And it is extraordinarily rare for any non-profit.

I get that, but my understanding of FOMH was it was setup somewhat outside the athletic department and covered things not in the athletic department's budget. I would add to this that hockey shouldn't have funding cut to cover track or other random sports. I can understand them using money leftover after all of hockey's needs have been met, but it sounds like in recent times that hasn't been the case. If nothing else there needs to be more transparency on what money is going where.

 

[NorthMike]

I get that, but my understanding of FOMH was it was setup somewhat outside the athletic department and covered things not in the athletic department's budget. I would add to this that hockey shouldn't have funding cut to cover track or other random sports. I can understand them using money leftover after all of hockey's needs have been met, but it sounds like in recent times that hasn't been the case. If nothing else there needs to be more transparency on what money is going where.

Just donate to the Standbrook fund, wont these funds allow the hockey to increase their budget over time.

 

[walrus]

Re: UMaine Black Bears, 2nd verse same as the first 2016-2017

This issue has been going on for years.

And TF F that men's bball will be a money maker in Orono

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[dunbar]

Re: UMaine Black Bears, 2nd verse same as the first 2016-2017

This issue has been going on for years.

And TF F that men's bball will be a money maker in Orono

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There's really no humor when comparing the maximum revenue potential between basketball and hockey. None.

 

[walrus]

Re: UMaine Black Bears, 2nd verse same as the first 2016-2017

I understand the bball tourney and the money that could be made. Making said tourney is the funny part. Don't you think their is something wrong with a program that loses its best players every year? The current coach seems to get some good players but he can't keep them.
I'd say the whole athletic dept is in disarray at this point.

 

[AMC]

Re: UMaine Black Bears, 2nd verse same as the first 2016-2017

The math makes sense. The optics suck.

Very, very, very few people give a **** about Maine hockey anymore, and I don't even chalk it up to losing. If the athletic department had continued to treat its fans like they did in the 80's and 90's (i.e., like integral parts of the family) and not like faceless customers, a decade of losing seasons would have been something the fans would have felt like they were bearing with the program.

Instead, the team would win 12 games, the athletic department demands more money for less perks and less human interaction, and the fans all fled.

 

[Drew S.]

The math makes sense. The optics suck.

Very, very, very few people give a **** about Maine hockey anymore, and I don't even chalk it up to losing. If the athletic department had continued to treat its fans like they did in the 80's and 90's (i.e., like integral parts of the family) and not like faceless customers, a decade of losing seasons would have been something the fans would have felt like they were bearing with the program.

Instead, the team would win 12 games, the athletic department demands more money for less perks and less human interaction, and the fans all fled.

Bang on. I know she wasn't everyone's cup of tea, but it seemed like things were much better during Sue Tyler's reign. I agree that if the old atmosphere had been left alone attendance wouldn't have declined anywhere close to the amount it has.

I have tried to be open minded on Creech but this plan is a complete disaster. I get the impression he completely doesn't understand Mainers.

 

[Ma#1ne Hky]

Re: UMaine Black Bears, 2nd verse same as the first 2016-2017

The math makes sense. The optics suck.

Very, very, very few people give a **** about Maine hockey anymore, and I don't even chalk it up to losing. If the athletic department had continued to treat its fans like they did in the 80's and 90's (i.e., like integral parts of the family) and not like faceless customers, a decade of losing seasons would have been something the fans would have felt like they were bearing with the program.

Instead, the team would win 12 games, the athletic department demands more money for less perks and less human interaction, and the fans all fled.

Best way to say it is the Athletic Department is a MESS and EMBARRASSING and they could care less....they are in there own world and have no CLUE. I can say there is a lot of us who STILL CARE about Maine Hockey....but we can't win for losing with this OUTFIT in charge. My thoughts are no more donations and after this season no more hockey season tickets.

 

[dunbar]

Re: UMaine Black Bears, 2nd verse same as the first 2016-2017

There's always a divide with "hockey only" fans and those who support the school in general. The athletic department, as a whole, is in a much better spot compared to five years ago, but those only concerned with hockey don't always see that.

 

[Drew S.]

Re: UMaine Black Bears, 2nd verse same as the first 2016-2017

There's always a divide with "hockey only" fans and those who support the school in general. The athletic department, as a whole, is in a much better spot compared to five years ago, but those only concerned with hockey don't always see that.

I'd like to hear your reasoning on that.

 

[dunbar]

Re: UMaine Black Bears, 2nd verse same as the first 2016-2017

I'd like to hear your reasoning on that.

It's really not that difficult to understand. Any gripes people have with the athletic department are hockey-related, and come from individuals who only support the hockey program like it's the only program the university has. When you get caught up with all that negativity, it's tough to see the strides the department and University has made over the past five years. Are the on-field/court results what they could be? Of course not, but from a marketing and interest standpoint, the gap between hockey and the other revenue sports are narrowed tremendously. That also has a lot to do with the casual sports fan, who typically will have much more interest in tailgating and football rather than hockey.

 

[walrus]

Re: UMaine Black Bears, 2nd verse same as the first 2016-2017

What other sports actually produce revenue at UMaine.

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[Drew S.]

It's really not that difficult to understand. Any gripes people have with the athletic department are hockey-related, and come from individuals who only support the hockey program like it's the only program the university has. When you get caught up with all that negativity, it's tough to see the strides the department and University has made over the past five years. Are the on-field/court results what they could be? Of course not, but from a marketing and interest standpoint, the gap between hockey and the other revenue sports are narrowed tremendously. That also has a lot to do with the casual sports fan, who typically will have much more interest in tailgating and football rather than hockey.

Ha, has the interest narrowed because more people are watching football or less are watching hockey? I can't see where football has really gotten any better. The program has been solid since Cosgrove was hired. I'm pretty sure his best years were around 2000. Women's basketball has had a few decent seasons but who knows where they're headed with the unfortunate coaching situation. If you really think the athletic department as a whole is better off now than it was five years ago you are completely delusional.

 

[AMC]

Re: UMaine Black Bears, 2nd verse same as the first 2016-2017

Ha, has the interest narrowed because more people are watching football or less are watching hockey? I can't see where football has really gotten any better. The program has been solid since Cosgrove was hired. I'm pretty sure his best years were around 2000. Women's basketball has had a few decent seasons but who knows where they're headed with the unfortunate coaching situation. If you really think the athletic department as a whole is better off now than it was five years ago you are completely delusional.

I can't really speak to the financials of the department, or the marketing, or the ticket office (we gave up the hockey season tickets we'd had since 1984 three or four years ago and never heard a word from the ticket office or athletic department asking why).

But I can say, that based upon what the University of Maine is, that a few teams seem to be overachieving (football, field hockey), and everything else is about where it should be. This is a small public university in a poor, rural, aging, demographically undiverse state. Any expectation of having a top 20 team in ANY sport is delusional. The hockey only fans are upset because Maine isn't what it was on the ice, but frankly Maine probably shouldn't have ever been that to begin with. Shawn was a once in a lifetime genius. There may be three or four people alive who could build a program like Shawn did, and good luck identifying them or bringing them to Orono.

 

[dunbar]

Re: UMaine Black Bears, 2nd verse same as the first 2016-2017

What other sports actually produce revenue at UMaine.

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If we're talking revenue, then football, men's and women's basketball, and baseball do. But let's be honest, no program on campus brings in more revenue than they cost (self-sufficient) because ALL programs are funded through the general university budget. 68% ($14.3M) of the "revenue" the athletic department reports comes from direct institutional support.

Keep in mind, this is a growing university. UM is now over 30% out of state students. Again, the largest incoming class in University history is coming in at the end of the month. The Flagship Match program is very appealing to those in other New England and Mid-Atlantic states (essentially students get their home state's tuition rate if they meet merit qualifications). These things make the University more competitive, in which the average incoming GPA and SAT score goes up, and up goes the US News and World Rankings.