TV: Give Me That Remote!

[Kepler]

Re: TV: Give Me That Remote!

The ending to the episode was so perfect

Spoilers:

I was a little disppointed with them on the fly. The instant he said "wouldn't hurt a fly" I was thinking, "welp, I guess that's how they're going to show they've overwritten their first law." They could have hinted it or even subverted it and I'd have been happier.

But the rest of the scene was terrific, edge of my seat. The "meet my Maker" Roy/Tyrell scene was a great example of hinting and nodding. Hopkins in general, who I usually find a scenery chewer, was so beautifully tired. Circling back to the interrogation of Dolores, with the words of the technician so fraught with meaning the second time through, was great smart, patient writing.

You can already see the show is working on many levels, with the potential to go down almost without limit. i'd love to watch it with an AI engineer, a biological basis of behavior grad student, and Gilbert Ryle. I am sure there are layers of clues and references that I'm missing. There are such deft, light touches: how Dolores remembers Teddy, leading us to the slow horror of the Man in Black's first violent scene and all its implications. The milk death scene and the techs' reactions. The whole concept of reveries.

I am more excited by this based on the pilot than I have been about anything since Galactica.

 

[St. Clown]

Re: TV: Give Me That Remote!

That was wonderful.

At that point, I wasn't really listening for songs that I know, paying more attention to the conversation than the music then.

In the link you provided, there's the entire episode listed as one of the related videos. How long until HBO has that pulled from YouTube?

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: TV: Give Me That Remote!

Spoilers:

I was a little disppointed with them on the fly. The instant he said "wouldn't hurt a fly" I was thinking, "welp, I guess that's how they're going to show they've overwritten their zeroth law." They could have hinted it or even subverted it and I'd have been happier.

But the rest of the scene was terrific, edge of my seat. The "meet my Maker" Roy/Tyrell scene was a great example of hinting and nodding. Hopkins in general, who I usually find a scenery chewer, was so beautifully tired. Circling back to the interrogation of Dolores, with the words of the technician so fraught with meaning the second time through, was great smart, patient writing.

You can already see the show is working on many levels, with the potential to go down almost without limit. i'd love to watch it with an AI engineer, a biological basis of behavior grad student, and Gilbert Ryle. I am sure there are layers of clues and references that I'm missing. There are such deft, light touches: how Dolores remembers Teddy, leading us to the slow horror of the Man in Black's first violent scene and all its implications. The milk death scene and the techs' reactions. The whole concept of reveries.

I am more excited by this based on the pilot than I have been about anything since Galactica.

I get what you're saying about the fly, I knew that was coming, maybe in the back of my mind. Especially, like you, when they said the robots "wouldn't hurt a fly." But then again, how else to do you cross that law? Because I think you have to within episode one or two. Sure you could delay it, but that's really stringing the audience along for a long time. My only wish was that they hadn't said the line about the fly. Maybe intimate it early on with one or two (at most) shots with the flies on their face really early in the episode. Then have her kill it at the end. In retrospect, I think that was maybe the one thing that was slightly too literal. I don't want the show to dumb itself down just to make sure everyone is keeping up. It's ok if 100% of the audience isn't going to get it. (God I feel pretentious after saying that.)

 

[Kepler]

Re: TV: Give Me That Remote!

I get what you're saying about...

I agree with your correction of that foreshadowing. The fly scenes, so uncomfortable to watch them walking about near the eyes, were sufficient to show the impact of her slap. They were also reminiscent of African children with that horrible disease which prevents them from realizing there are flies on their eyes, and that gave another dimension to the pathos of the robots' intolerable situation. I was also reminded of Orr's nonsense line in catch-22: "Clevinger has flies in his eyes," and the sense of his hidden depths from which we get the reveal later.

For that matter, why the opening stanza of "Black Hole Sun"?

In my eyes, indisposed
In disguises no one knows
Hides the face, lies the snake

When the writing is this good I want to believe these associations are intentional.

BTW, there is nothing pretentious about taking serious art seriously, and Westworld is serious art. It can work for the small brains, too, and it better -- that's how they make their money and we get to keep seeing what happens. The vegetative consumers' maw has its place in the foodchain too.

Or maybe I'm reading the dilemma of the race to be the dilemma of the show.

 

[Scarlet]

Re: TV: Give Me That Remote!

Questions for those of you watching Westworld...

1. Did any of you see the movie from the 70s? I did. I didn't watch the show, I will, but wanted to know if it is completely different from the movie.
2. The one thing from the movie that has stuck with me all these years is how they showed who was a robot and who wasn't - you know when you bend your fingers and there's a slight indentation at the joint? In the movie, he robots didn't have that indentation - the skin protruded out there. It was very subtle, but a quick way to see who was a robot. To this day I always look at my hands and think of that. Are they doing to same for the TV show or have they showed a different way to tell who is a robot and who isn't?

 

[St. Clown]

Re: TV: Give Me That Remote!

Scarlet, a brief mention in the show was that the robots have become so hard to tell apart from real people, but the robots had small tells that the average viewer will likely miss until they're told in that same scene.

 

[Kepler]

Re: TV: Give Me That Remote!

Questions for those of you watching Westworld...

1. Did any of you see the movie from the 70s? I did. I didn't watch the show, I will, but wanted to know if it is completely different from the movie.
2. The one thing from the movie that has stuck with me all these years is how they showed who was a robot and who wasn't - you know when you bend your fingers and there's a slight indentation at the joint? In the movie, he robots didn't have that indentation - the skin protruded out there. It was very subtle, but a quick way to see who was a robot. To this day I always look at my hands and think of that. Are they doing to same for the TV show or have they showed a different way to tell who is a robot and who isn't?

1. Yes. It's very different, but part of the difference is a deliberate twist on the movie. For example: in the movie the relentless villain is a robot, in the show it is, apparently but hey who knows, a human.

2. Not yet. But, once the guests start getting their 1% just desserts there is going to be a full court press to determine who's who. I'm already suspicious of some of the "staff," and this is deliberate in the acting. This may degenerate into a Galactica "what are the other models?" snipe hunt that would IMHO be a big letdown. No doubt there are ways -- the magic words "deep and dreamless slumber"* are a way to tell so far, but if the bots can outsoul their programming presumably they will let slip those bounds too.

* These are the sources of the references the show has made in its dialog so far:

"deep and dreamless slumber" -- A Study in Scarlet, the (pilot) Sherlock Holmes story which uses the Wild West as a (really weird) plot point

"Hell is empty and all the devils are here" -- most famously The Tempest, but also a book about the 2006 Financial Crisis and how the 1% screwed us over. I strongly suspect the second reference is the one they were shooting for.

"I will have such revenges on you" -- The super gross torture sequence in King Lear and no, seriously, don't look into that.

"These violent delights have violent ends." -- Romeo and Juliet, and a really interesting choice. here is the full passage:

These violent delights have violent ends
And in their triumph die, like fire and powder,
Which as they kiss consume: the sweetest honey
Is loathsome in his own deliciousness
And in the taste confounds the appetite:
Therefore love moderately; long love doth so;
Too swift arrives as tardy as too slow.

Well f-ck, that aint exactly what you'd call subtle. In The Cabin in the Woods the first sign to the kids that Something Is Awry comes from a character called "The Harbinger" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Io8nlxyMTd8). The R&J quote is what happens when you play that straight.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: TV: Give Me That Remote!

I agree with your correction of that foreshadowing. The fly scenes, so uncomfortable to watch them walking about near the eyes, were sufficient to show the impact of her slap. They were also reminiscent of African children with that horrible disease which prevents them from realizing there are flies on their eyes, and that gave another dimension to the pathos of the robots' intolerable situation. I was also reminded of Orr's nonsense line in catch-22: "Clevinger has flies in his eyes," and the sense of his hidden depths from which we get the reveal later.

For that matter, why the opening stanza of "Black Hole Sun"?

In my eyes, indisposed
In disguises no one knows
Hides the face, lies the snake

When the writing is this good I want to believe these associations are intentional.

BTW, there is nothing pretentious about taking serious art seriously, and Westworld is serious art. It can work for the small brains, too, and it better -- that's how they make their money and we get to keep seeing what happens. The vegetative consumers' maw has its place in the foodchain too.

Or maybe I'm reading the dilemma of the race to be the dilemma of the show.

I didn't even think of the BHS lyrics. God, that's almost too brilliant to not be intentional. You may be onto something about the children and the robots pathos. It's going to be hard for me to believe there are any coincidences in this show. Every little is going to be explicitly planned.

Regarding art, I suppose we can all indulge the creators an occasional <strike>mistake</strike> "Hey, pay attention to this one part. It's important" if it means more money comes in

Questions for those of you watching Westworld...

1. Did any of you see the movie from the 70s? I did. I didn't watch the show, I will, but wanted to know if it is completely different from the movie.
2. The one thing from the movie that has stuck with me all these years is how they showed who was a robot and who wasn't - you know when you bend your fingers and there's a slight indentation at the joint? In the movie, he robots didn't have that indentation - the skin protruded out there. It was very subtle, but a quick way to see who was a robot. To this day I always look at my hands and think of that. Are they doing to same for the TV show or have they showed a different way to tell who is a robot and who isn't?

I haven't, but everything I've read says it's only taking the concept of the park and everything else is very different. Watch the first episode and then read this recap from the NYT.

 

[Scarlet]

Re: TV: Give Me That Remote!

You know, the show aired so spoilers aren't necessary.

 

[Kepler]

Re: TV: Give Me That Remote!

You know, the show aired so spoilers aren't necessary.

One week rule. Many / most / all of us TiVo.

 

[jen]

Re: TV: Give Me That Remote!

Pitch pilot was OK. Lots of potential pitfalls but so far not bad.

You're an enlightened guy. Am I going to be offended by it, as a female baseball fan?

 

[Scarlet]

Re: TV: Give Me That Remote!

You're an enlightened guy. Am I going to be offended by it, as a female baseball fan?

No, you won't. I really enjoyed it.

 

[bigblue_dl]

Re: TV: Give Me That Remote!

Kepler and DX, thanks for whiting out spoilers, I haven't seen it yet...

Since this is a general TV thread, it is a good idea to keep spoilers hidden for a few days after, since people may come in here to discuss other TV shows in the meantime.

 

[Kepler]

Re: TV: Give Me That Remote!

You're an enlightened guy. Am I going to be offended by it, as a female baseball fan?

Not at all. You may have a few eye rolls over the "look at us not being patronizing!!!!" (which is of course itself patronizing), but overall they're doing fine so far.

It's a national network show so it's going to be kinda stupid and the "great strides in gender issues" it thinks it's making are things the thinking portion of the country had already settled circa 1987. But one of the signs of social progress is when even TV gets dragged over the finish line. And heck, it still hasn't happened with race, so we should be grateful.

 

[rufus]

Re: TV: Give Me That Remote!

Timeless pilot was OK, not great. Pretty clichéd for the time travel genre, but since it's at least a little sci-fi on a major network, I'm willing to give it a shot. Needs to get better in a hurry to last more than a season, though.

Yeah. It doesn't help that i can't look at Abigail Spencer without certain videos running through my head, which makes it hard to stay focused on the show.

 

[Slap Shot]

Re: TV: Give Me That Remote!

Loved the use of Black Hole Sun and Paint It Black (especially the former), loved the quotes from Shakespeare even though I had to look up a few having not read the Tempest since 8th grade for instance, and I did not mind the fly scene in the least. Westworld is a completely different show but I think it will keep my intellect on its toes more than any show since Twin Peaks.

Any have thoughts on Blindspot or Conviction? I lean toward not jumping into either but...

 

[bigblue_dl]

Re: TV: Give Me That Remote!

Just watched it. Agree with everyone else. It was outstanding, and already one of the best on TV.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: TV: Give Me That Remote!

Watched it again tonight. Yeah, it's that good. It wasn't a dream.

It was beautiful and wicked. The rape scene and the scene where the human shoots Hector while he's robbing the saloon really got to me.

Thankfully, the show offers a brief reprieve in the moments Delores wakes up. Optimistic. Were there any scenes in which a newcomer was visiting that reminded you of the good in humanity? Perhaps the scene where the girl* tries to make Delores feel better after watching teddy die. She tries to tell her it's a dream. That part was heartwarming. Unfortunately it was the only lighthouse in the dark sea.

I can't stop thinking about this show.

*who apparently shares a birthday with me, the first person I've heard of that shares that date who was also alive. The other person I had to do a report on was Deborah Sampson. To this day, I've never actually met a person who shares my month and day. Statistically that should be nearly impossible.

 

[aparch]

Timeless pilot was OK, not great. Pretty clichéd for the time travel genre, but since it's at least a little sci-fi on a major network, I'm willing to give it a shot. Needs to get better in a hurry to last more than a season, though.

When I saw the previews for it, I was interested in the show. Then I saw that it's airing on NBC, so it's already got a death sentence.

I think I'll pass (for now) on the Quantum Leap Redux, albeit with less social issue undertones but now including a bad guy!

 

[The Rube]

Re: TV: Give Me That Remote!

When I saw the previews for it, I was interested in the show. Then I saw that it's airing on NBC, so it's already got a death sentence.

I think I'll pass (for now) on the Quantum Leap Redux, albeit with less social issue undertones but now including a bad guy!

Or that show with the fat kid from Stand By Me. Can't remember the name offhand.....