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Trump First Term I: I for One Welcome Our New Trumpy Overlord

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No, my point was this election (or, more accurately, the outcome) was so emotionally charged that any statement either for or against a certain candidate will in all likelihood create a perception that not only is a candidate being attacked, but the listener himself/herself is also under attack. Therefore, unless a person feels the need to spend the day shouting at other people about politics, a person's best course is to simply ignore the statements and change the subject. Maybe, although I'm seriously beginning to doubt it, the emotion drains away a bit and people can talk again.

And I think most Clinton supporters don't feel attacked since the "attacks" are based on blatant falsehoods. Frustrated, depressed, annoyed? Sure. Attacked? No.

The irony is that when Clinton supporters push back using Trump's own recorded, verified statements, that causes anger on the other side.

This election proved that data and truth didn't matter, but truthiness and perception do. And at it's heart, America never got past the fifth grade since, apparently, "I know you are, but what am I" is a strategy that can win an election.
 
Re: Trump First Term I: I for One Welcome Our New Trumpy Overlord

Maybe, although I'm seriously beginning to doubt it, the emotion drains away a bit and people can talk again.

The only one avoiding political discussion--again, in a forum for political discussion--is you, because you didn't like what that discussion revealed.
 
Re: Trump First Term I: I for One Welcome Our New Trumpy Overlord

Maybe, although I'm seriously beginning to doubt it, the emotion drains away a bit and people can talk again.

The losers of the 2008, not to mention 2012, elections never calmed down. Their calumnies and paranoia only grew as the monstrous things they insisted must happen didn't. It was a classic example of doubling down as the evidence grew that they were in the wrong.

We'll see what happens this time. I agree that right now we are just as amped against Trump and the GOP as the righties were when Obama blackened the door of the White House. But whereas Obama was conciliatory and cool, Trump trolls at 3 a.m. and adores the limelight, so I wouldn't count on the level of anxiety dropping any time soon.
 
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Re: Trump First Term I: I for One Welcome Our New Trumpy Overlord

And I think most Clinton supporters don't feel attacked since the "attacks" are based on blatant falsehoods. Frustrated, depressed, annoyed? Sure. Attacked? No.

The irony is that when Clinton supporters push back using Trump's own recorded, verified statements, that causes anger on the other side.

This is it precisely. The right has now fully embraced a dichotomy where their myths become something we have to allow for and treat as if they were real. They are hollering "you guys have not released a single statement concerning the dread scourge of leprechauns!!!" while we stand around looking at each other like "these idiots are kidding, right?"

But by enough people believing in these things, they do become "real," in the sense of a thing being mutually recognizable, and having influence. Think of ideas as analogous to physical objects. Ideally, the analogous "physical laws" (mass, volume, velocity, momentum) of an idea would relate to its truth. But that's completely false -- all an idea needs to have impact is to be widely held. That was the brilliance of Roger Ailes (as another in a long line of propagandists) -- you can create a parallel ideascape and put your audience inside it, and that then becomes their reality. Then all you need to do is to replace the standard people use to evaluate whether to accept a new idea. So, demonize gatekeepers and science (reason) itself, and replace them with "gut feeling," as of course reinforced and channeled by an echo chamber of like-thinking personalities. You have now created a closed system and you have changed what is "true" or "false" for your audience. You don't "control" them -- they control themselves for you.

The bottom line: they won. The precedent has now been set that lying constantly and about everything does not materially affect your chances of winning office.
 
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Re: Trump First Term I: I for One Welcome Our New Trumpy Overlord

Lets not pretend the Right is the only one doing it Kepler...Mainstream media is embracing it with arms wide open because they wet their pants at any accusation of being biased. Martin Short nailed it on Maher right before the election when he ripped CNN and Anderson Cooper for legitimizing the Trump beliefs/lies by giving his surrogates a forum nightly to defend the lies he told and continue to propagate BS falsehoods (not to mention over cover the hateful stuff he did/said and his followers did/said) all in the name of trying to be "balanced". Just because some crackpot media people choose to defend Trump and the Alt-Right doesnt mean you need to put them on the air for an hour every night so they can churn out hateful chum for the masses. Make them go to 4chan and Faux for that crap report on the facts. (election night and after that has been what Van Jones has been kind of saying as he gets shouted down)

It is like a bit Patton Oswalt used to tell...we dont have to respect the beliefs of everyone. We can respect that they HAVE beliefs but just because they have them doesnt make them legit or something we need to deal with.

Patton Oswalt said:
No you don't. That's what gets us in trouble. Look, you have to acknowledge everyone's beliefs, and then you have to reserve the right to go "That is ****ing stupid. Are you kidding me? I acknowledge you believe that. That's great. But I'm not gonna respect it." I have have an uncle who believes he saw Sasquatch. We do not believe him nor do we respect him!

Here is the whole bit which is brilliant!
 
Re: Trump First Term I: I for One Welcome Our New Trumpy Overlord

The only one avoiding political discussion--again, in a forum for political discussion--is you, because you didn't like what that discussion revealed.
I'm avoiding a political discussion because it's pointless. The election is over.

Do you actually think you guys are revealing anything here? Trump is a turd. He's made racist and sexist and stupid statements. Who here has denied that? Do you think I have? You think with your incessant whining about it you are passing along information we somehow missed?
 
Re: Trump First Term I: I for One Welcome Our New Trumpy Overlord

I'm avoiding a political discussion because it's pointless. The election is over.

Do you actually think you guys are revealing anything here? Trump is a turd. He's made racist and sexist and stupid statements. Who here has denied that? Do you think I have? You think with your incessant whining about it you are passing along information we somehow missed?

Who cares if we are revealing something (we arent News Agencies) the point is to discuss what is out there. What are you expecting to be discussed in a political thread? Trump is the President...stories about what he does/did and says are inherently political now. Should we all just shut up about it because we lost? Did that stop half the Right (including almost all of you on here) from whining about Obama since 2008? Of course not what politicians do is all we have to base our discussions on. If you dont like it, stay out of threads about it.

I mean what do you talk about in UND threads? Are they dead silent except on game day? No post game discussion, no questioning decisions by the coaches or players? No critique of the game itself or how the team played at all?

I get you dont like what Maize is posting or his attitude but your opinion about this thread is kind of bizarre.
 
Re: Trump First Term I: I for One Welcome Our New Trumpy Overlord

Who cares if we are revealing something (we arent News Agencies) the point is to discuss what is out there. What are you expecting to be discussed in a political thread? Trump is the President...stories about what he does/did and says are inherently political now. Should we all just shut up about it because we lost? Did that stop half the Right (including almost all of you on here) from whining about Obama since 2008? Of course not what politicians do is all we have to base our discussions on. If you dont like it, stay out of threads about it.

I mean what do you talk about in UND threads? Are they dead silent except on game day? No post game discussion, no questioning decisions by the coaches or players? No critique of the game itself or how the team played at all?

I get you dont like what Maize is posting or his attitude but your opinion about this thread is kind of bizarre.
I'm not opposed to people talking politics in this thread. In fact, my whole recent involvement was about a political issue which I found interesting, which is the idea of basically burning all bridges with friends or relatives who may have voted differently than you in this election. I think that is an example of a legitimate and interesting topic of discussion, and it moved into some poster's examples of their own frustrating conversations with friends.

My comment in response was that I personally just think it's a good idea to dodge those conversations in general with people right now because of the politically charged atmosphere. In response, Maize decided that was a good time to start arguing for HRC and against Trump and insulting me, which I thought was all kind of pointless, again.

Obviously I am free to avoid this thread, and frequently do for stretches of time. But I think there are interesting subjects to be discussed, which is why I return. I just don't think, "Trump's a RACIST!!!!" is one of them. That just get's old, even for those of us that didn't support him.


Edit: Oh, and with respect to the UND threads, yeah they've been pretty dead, unfortunately. :)
 
Re: Trump First Term I: I for One Welcome Our New Trumpy Overlord

There were lots of pictures and videos going around of the "Alt-Right" convention in DC...lots of "Heil Trump" stuff with Nazi salutes. Hell The Restaurant That Hosted The Dinner Apologized after pictures went public.

But hey it isnt about race...and those of us that are not THEM have no reason to fear. I should be happy that our country is being influenced by these people...who worship at the alter of a Reality Show Celebrity and the most infamous genocidal madman in modern history using terminology and symbology used to subjugate and murder my people.
They're basically Nazis but too big of cowards to call themselves that.
 
Re: Trump First Term I: I for One Welcome Our New Trumpy Overlord

Interesting article in today's WaPo. (google Trump economy election Washington Post to bypass the paywall) The 1% went for Hillary - big. The rest went for tD. There's a divide, and it's economic, not political.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...p-top-table-main_economy-1125a:homepage/story
Thats not surprising, she was guaranteed to keep the status quo, the amount of wealth the 1%ers controlled was going to go up just like it did under obama. pretty good chance it does under Trump also ;)
 
Re: Trump First Term I: I for One Welcome Our New Trumpy Overlord

Interesting article in today's WaPo. (google Trump economy election Washington Post to bypass the paywall) The 1% went for Hillary - big. The rest went for tD. There's a divide, and it's economic, not political.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...p-top-table-main_economy-1125a:homepage/story

Isn't that consistent with what Kep's article says--that the GOP is tricking the poor to serve the interests of the wealthy?
 
Re: Trump First Term I: I for One Welcome Our New Trumpy Overlord

This is it precisely. The right has now fully embraced a dichotomy where their myths become something we have to allow for and treat as if they were real. They are hollering "you guys have not released a single statement concerning the dread scourge of leprechauns!!!" while we stand around looking at each other like "these idiots are kidding, right?"

But by enough people believing in these things, they do become "real," in the sense of a thing being mutually recognizable, and having influence. Think of ideas as analogous to physical objects. Ideally, the analogous "physical laws" (mass, volume, velocity, momentum) of an idea would relate to its truth. But that's completely false -- all an idea needs to have impact is to be widely held. That was the brilliance of Roger Ailes (as another in a long line of propagandists) -- you can create a parallel ideascape and put your audience inside it, and that then becomes their reality. Then all you need to do is to replace the standard people use to evaluate whether to accept a new idea. So, demonize gatekeepers and science (reason) itself, and replace "gut feeling," as of course reinforced and channeled by like-thinking personalities. You have now created a closed system and you have changed what is "true" or "false" for your audience. You don't "control" them -- they control themselves for you.

The bottom line: they won. The precedent has now been set that lying constantly and about everything does not materially affect your chances of winning office.

And that's where the press fails us. They report, "Republicans say the moon is made of green cheese. Democrats say 'no, it isn't'. And that's it. That's the level of our political reporting these days. It's he said, she said, with not even an attempt to actually investigate and report what the facts actually are.
 
Re: Trump First Term I: I for One Welcome Our New Trumpy Overlord

Back in the day, did the big names on tv news like Murrow and Cronkite really go after a political party in what would today be viewed as a partisan attack?


I suppose the era of McCarthyism saw Murrow go after them, but was that the norm?
 
Re: Trump First Term I: I for One Welcome Our New Trumpy Overlord

Back in the day, did the big names on tv news like Murrow and Cronkite really go after a political party in what would today be viewed as a partisan attack?

I suppose the era of McCarthyism saw Murrow go after them, but was that the norm?

No, but when Cronkite went on the air to say the war was unwinnable, he was editorializing in a way he had not done before, as I recall, and he could not take that step back.
 
Re: Trump First Term I: I for One Welcome Our New Trumpy Overlord

I'm avoiding a political discussion because it's pointless. The election is over.

Do you actually think you guys are revealing anything here? Trump is a turd. He's made racist and sexist and stupid statements. Who here has denied that? Do you think I have? You think with your incessant whining about it you are passing along information we somehow missed?

You're not avoiding a political discussion. You're engaging in it in order to tell us that we suck for engaging in it.

It's ironic, but for 2016 it's not even a 2 on the 10-point scale. ;)
 
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