Transfer Season

[Timothy A]

Transfer portal rules update: There is a 60 day window to enter starting when the ncaa tourney field is announced. Exceptions are for players who have a coaching change or if they have financial aid reduced. Those can enter at any time. Financial aid must be guaranteed by the new school to the player through graduation. These seem like reasonable rules. Apparently the push for allowing multiple transfers was not adopted, which to me also seems reasonable. Some of us are anti transfer, some of us are let them blow with the wind, so this is a good compromise, because us 17 posters do rule the women's college hockey world you know.

 

[Steamboat]

.... because us 17 posters do rule the women's college hockey world you know.

Sound off!

 

[Scott_TG]

Anyone with insight as to midseason moves for either division?

Do people think the transfer portal made mid-season transfers more or less attractive or that it has no effect?

 

[Still Eeyore]

Anyone with insight as to midseason moves for either division?

Do people think the transfer portal made mid-season transfers more or less attractive or that it has no effect?

Midseason transfers are going to be extremely rare going forwards. Over the summer, the NCAA made a number of changes, effective immediately, in the transfer rules. One of them is that, for all winter sports, there is a 60-day window, beginning the day after national tournament selections are made, during which notifications of transfers can be announced. Outside that window, a player can only transfer if they meet one of the following criteria and are granted a waiver by the NCAA: Head coaching changes; loss of scholarship money; "circumstances outside the student-athlete's control," whatever that means; or "student-athlete well being."

 

[ARM]

Outside that window, a player can only transfer if they meet one of the following criteria and are granted a waiver by the NCAA: Head coaching changes; loss of scholarship money; "circumstances outside the student-athlete's control," whatever that means; or "student-athlete well being."

While it can fall under the final, catch-all condition, one would think that there would be something explicitly specified for "degree requirements" or wording to that effect, used when the timing of the move is dictated academically.

 

[Timothy A]

"circumstances outside the student-athlete's control," whatever that means; or "student-athlete well being."

And we all know the NCAA is completely illogical in how they apply these or any criteria. Students A and B both have the same situation, Student A is allowed and Student B is denied.

 

[ARM]

Students A and B both have the same situation, Student A is allowed and Student B is denied.

Is there much in the way of denial post Covid? It seems like, at least in certain college sports, the talent pool has as much flux as one sees in pro sports.

 

[Scott_TG]

Thank you for sharing this info, I didn't realize they made this change. Do you know whether this applies to all NCAA student athletes or just for those on athletic scholarships?

 

[Timothy A]

Is there much in the way of denial post Covid? It seems like, at least in certain college sports, the talent pool has as much flux as one sees in pro sports.

There was a UW volleyball player who denied the first semester and the Coach was very vocal about the lunacy of the situation. Paging Robert Earle....

 

[robertearle]

There was a UW volleyball player who denied the first semester and the Coach was very vocal about the lunacy of the situation. Paging Robert Earle....

Shanelle Bramschreiber, an all-conference Big12 libero (back row, keep the ball off the floor player; maybe the VB world's goalie). She finished her degree at Baylor (a regular top 10 team) and signed with an agent to explore her prospects for a pro contract in the European leagues. But because of different rules between the NCAA and European pro leagues (regarding substitutions), there are a very limited number of spots for 'back row short girls' in the pro leagues. So, other than contracting with the agent, she never benefitted in any way, and sought to use the COVID year she still had available to her. But despite NCAA men basketball players and football players being able to enter into such agreements with agents while retaining eligibility, she was denied. Wisconsin helped her appeal, and literally on the eve of the beginning of the season, her appeal was 'granted' but she was ruled eligible for only the second half of the season. No particular reason cited by the NCAA for the different treatment of male football and basketball players and the female volleyball player, or for the 'half' eligibility grant.

 

[Reddington]

Thanks for the info, I'm sure that will help educate someone on possible arguments to make when the same fact pattern is present.

 

[Russell Jaslow]

Shanelle Bramschreiber, an all-conference Big12 libero (back row, keep the ball off the floor player; maybe the VB world's goalie). She finished her degree at Baylor (a regular top 10 team) and signed with an agent to explore her prospects for a pro contract in the European leagues. But because of different rules between the NCAA and European pro leagues (regarding substitutions), there are a very limited number of spots for 'back row short girls' in the pro leagues. So, other than contracting with the agent, she never benefitted in any way, and sought to use the COVID year she still had available to her. But despite NCAA men basketball players and football players being able to enter into such agreements with agents while retaining eligibility, she was denied. Wisconsin helped her appeal, and literally on the eve of the beginning of the season, her appeal was 'granted' but she was ruled eligible for only the second half of the season. No particular reason cited by the NCAA for the different treatment of male football and basketball players and the female volleyball player, or for the 'half' eligibility grant.

Different sports have different rules. So, you can't necessarily compare what happened to the VB to what happens to BB and FB players. Maybe you -- I don't know about this particular rule -- but maybe you can't.

For instance, baseball and hockey players can get drafted and still play in college. If a BB or FB player gets drafted, their college career is done.

 

[Timothy A]

Different sports have different rules. So, you can't necessarily compare what happened to the VB to what happens to BB and FB players. Maybe you -- I don't know about this particular rule -- but maybe you can't.

The point is even though all these rules are written in a 800 rulebook, the NCAA's decisions often seen arbitrary and illogical.

 

[robertearle]

Different sports have different rules. So, you can't necessarily compare what happened to the VB to what happens to BB and FB players. Maybe you -- I don't know about this particular rule -- but maybe you can't.

For instance, baseball and hockey players can get drafted and still play in college. If a BB or FB player gets drafted, their college career is done.

There are examples of FB players "declaring for the draft" after having consulted with outside individuals - just don't call them agents- then changing their minds, but facing no "consequences" for that action. She did very much the equivalent and was punished for it.

 

[Still Eeyore]

For instance, baseball and hockey players can get drafted and still play in college. If a BB or FB player gets drafted, their college career is done.

The reason for this is that MLB and the NHL don't consult with the NCAA. Their teams can draft anyone they want, so long as they have completed high school and are not in their first two years of college (baseball) or are age eligible (hockey). The NBA and NFL do coordinate with the NCAA, and the leagues' rules state that they can only draft athletes who have declared that they are turning pro.

If kids drafted in baseball and hockey lost their NCAA eligibility, this would hit athletes that fully intend to continue playing in the NCAA. Baseball players who get drafted often use their ability to go back to school as leverage in their negotiations with MLB teams, though less so now that the total money that teams can sign draftees for is set b the draft slot of the players that they sign. Hockey players have a lot less leverage, since NHL teams retain their draft rights for several years.

So, it's less that the NCAA has different rules for baseball and hockey players than it does for football and basketball players, as it is that the pro leagues have different rules for who is draft eligible.

 

[ARM]

I think that the NCAA rules are very much a work in progress (?) at this point. For decades, it seemed like everyone but the athletes were allowed to profit from the NCAA money-making machine. Now, the rules are changing rapidly with portals, stipends and NIL that recently didn't exist. The constant through the years has been that the rules aren't applied equally. The higher the profile of the sport and the more power the university wields, the more likely the rulings will be favorable and slaps will be aimed at the wrist, if anywhere.

 

[robertearle]

The reason for this is that MLB and the NHL don't consult with the NCAA. Their teams can draft anyone they want, so long as they have completed high school and are not in their first two years of college (baseball) or are age eligible (hockey). The NBA and NFL do coordinate with the NCAA, and the leagues' rules state that they can only draft athletes who have declared that they are turning pro.

If kids drafted in baseball and hockey lost their NCAA eligibility, this would hit athletes that fully intend to continue playing in the NCAA. Baseball players who get drafted often use their ability to go back to school as leverage in their negotiations with MLB teams, though less so now that the total money that teams can sign draftees for is set b the draft slot of the players that they sign. Hockey players have a lot less leverage, since NHL teams retain their draft rights for several years.

So, it's less that the NCAA has different rules for baseball and hockey players than it does for football and basketball players, as it is that the pro leagues have different rules for who is draft eligible.

... and there is no such thing as a 'draft' for pro VB leagues in Europe and Asia, as far as I know (and there are often limits per team as to how many 'foreigners' a team can have on their roster). So the only realistic way for an NCAA VB player to explore their pro options and possibilities is to hire such an agent who knows the 'market'.

 

[Russell Jaslow]

The reason for this is that MLB and the NHL don't consult with the NCAA. Their teams can draft anyone they want, so long as they have completed high school and are not in their first two years of college (baseball) or are age eligible (hockey). The NBA and NFL do coordinate with the NCAA, and the leagues' rules state that they can only draft athletes who have declared that they are turning pro.

If kids drafted in baseball and hockey lost their NCAA eligibility, this would hit athletes that fully intend to continue playing in the NCAA. Baseball players who get drafted often use their ability to go back to school as leverage in their negotiations with MLB teams, though less so now that the total money that teams can sign draftees for is set b the draft slot of the players that they sign. Hockey players have a lot less leverage, since NHL teams retain their draft rights for several years.

So, it's less that the NCAA has different rules for baseball and hockey players than it does for football and basketball players, as it is that the pro leagues have different rules for who is draft eligible.

Different rules are different rules. No matter the reasons for the differences.

 

[Russell Jaslow]

... and there is no such thing as a 'draft' for pro VB leagues in Europe and Asia, as far as I know (and there are often limits per team as to how many 'foreigners' a team can have on their roster). So the only realistic way for an NCAA VB player to explore their pro options and possibilities is to hire such an agent who knows the 'market'.

Which is why different rules exist for different sports. Unless you read the rules, we don't know what the women VB rules are concerning this example. And comparing it to other sports is completely meaningless until you read the rules.

 

[Popova1]

Question on in conference transfers.
I remember someone telling me that the rule was the player had to sit a year after transferring within their conference but that the rule was changed and that is no longer a requirement. I cannot find that change to see it and read it. Does anyone have knowledge of that change?