Tournament Speculation Thread

[jconnor]

Re: Tournament Speculation Thread

Remember unlike yesterday, this game counts so you will see a different Oswego team....

Likewise with Elmira.

 

[Russell Jaslow]

Re: Tournament Speculation Thread

While several of us were kicking around the potential for St. Thomas to get in over Hobart, you seemed pretty confident they would. And now you look like a guru for calling it. So I've got to ask - what led to your "sneaky suspicion"?

I was waiting for someone to ask that question...

Talking to a coach the other day, who had served on these committees in the past, he indicated to me if you look at the criteria, St. Thomas should be much higher ranked than they are now. So, it got me thinking that it would all be "corrected" when the selection process took place.

 

[joecct]

Re: Tournament Speculation Thread

From the manual:

The Division III Men’s Ice Hockey Committee will rank the teams selected within each geographic region using the primary
and secondary criteria. The highest-ranked teams in each region will be given consideration as preliminary first-round and
quarterfinal sites, assuming they meet the requirements of Bylaw 31.1.3.2.3. The committee will pair the teams regionally,
based on geographic location of all participants and final seeding. Flights will be kept to a minimum. Please refer to Appendix
A on page 50 for the Division III men’s ice hockey bracket.

So which criteria put UST in the tournament and Hobart out? Then, using the same structure, make sure that Elmira and Oswego got in and nobody else booted them?

 

[norm1909]

Re: Tournament Speculation Thread

From the manual:


So which criteria put UST in the tournament and Hobart out? Then, using the same structure, make sure that Elmira and Oswego got in and nobody else booted them?

I believe it is an incumbent year for the Prezidential Three

 

[MW4Bucky&SNC]

Re: Tournament Speculation Thread

Read my previous post -- the NCAA doesn't care how long a bus trip is once they make the decision it's going to be a bus trip versus an airplane trip. And, I agree with that.

I suspect they were trying to avoid an intra-conference match up in the first round, and for that I can't blame them. Though, I probably would prefer to have the top seeded team play the lowest seeded team for fairness, not because it's a shorter bus ride..

I get that but the idea of them caring about the welfare of the student athlete is laughable when you can shorten their time on the road very easily here. Not to mention it would better keep the integrity of the seedings. That would be the primary point of this. If they want to reward the Gusties for winning the conference tournament then let them host the 2-3 but this would have made the most sense on a couple of levels. It's not agregious but it would have made more sense to go SNC-MSOE and then the 2 MIAC schools.

 

[Russell Jaslow]

Re: Tournament Speculation Thread

I get that but the idea of them caring about the welfare of the student athlete is laughable when you can shorten their time on the road very easily here. Not to mention it would better keep the integrity of the seedings. That would be the primary point of this. If they want to reward the Gusties for winning the conference tournament then let them host the 2-3 but this would have made the most sense on a couple of levels. It's not agregious but it would have made more sense to go SNC-MSOE and then the 2 MIAC schools.

A few extra hours on the road? Come on... It's a Saturday. It's not like hockey teams aren't used to traveling.

I agree with your argument for the integrity of the seedings. Just don't throw in the longer bus trip to try and convince me...

 

[offside]

Re: Tournament Speculation Thread

Russell, if you are talking about the next set of games here in the WEst, they are this Wednesday night, then the winners play Saturday, March 10.

 

[Russell Jaslow]

Re: Tournament Speculation Thread

Russell, if you are talking about the next set of games here in the WEst, they are this Wednesday night, then the winners play Saturday, March 10.

Oh, yeah. D'uh!

But, I still maintain my stance. Albeit a little weaker.

 

[peddler]

Re: Tournament Speculation Thread

From the manual:


So which criteria put UST in the tournament and Hobart out? Then, using the same structure, make sure that Elmira and Oswego got in and nobody else booted them?

UST should have had the highest Western non-AQ NCAA ranking to begin with. By the selection criteria in http://www.d3hockey.com/Bracketology/Men_11-12/2012-Bracketology-Selection-Process

Oswego and Elmira, by those same criteria kicked butt on everyone else not an AQ.

 

[peddler]

Re: Tournament Speculation Thread

From the manual:


So which criteria put UST in the tournament and Hobart out? Then, using the same structure, make sure that Elmira and Oswego got in and nobody else booted them?

The minute Adrian lost, and the opportunity for a no-flight East-West game disappeared, it was destined to be a 7-4 split, and UST was next in line.

 

[Checking Line]

Re: Tournament Speculation Thread

I will simply say that looking at the NCAA criteria for a Pool C bid that destiny is not there. Now I am extremely happy for St. Thomas, I live in Green Bay and I am happy for the fact that 4 teams from the West got in.

BUT, logically with an 8-3 split (which I favor):

MSOE still goes to Minnesota

St Norbert is rewarded as a 1 seed in the West (which it seems to me a 1 seed should be) by not having to play on Wednesday

And this insane seeding in the West that now results in a Milwaukee team going to Minnesota and a Minnesota team having to come to Green Bay is eliminated.

Others who are far smarter about this process can no doubt shed more light, but in the past I seem to recall strength of schedule carrying more weight and that did not seem to happen here--it seems to be winning % and the fact that on selection Sunday the powers that be moved St. Thomas up in the West regional rankings.

I know, logic is not in the NCAA criteria either.

So again, congrats to St Thomas and they will be a worthy opponent for SNC and congrats to all the other teams that are in--good luck to all. Wish I could get to Lake Placid as my family and I were there in 2008 and it was awesome!! If you have not been there and you get the chance this time, go--you will remember it forever.

 

[Blueliner03]

Re: Tournament Speculation Thread

So, would this be the logic behind the West seeds, favoring the AQ over the non-AQ?
W1 SNC highest ranked West AQ
W2 Gustavus
W3 MSOE
W4 St. Thomas highest ranked West non-AQ

 

[delfan]

Re: Tournament Speculation Thread

Logic would have Gustavus- Gustavus vs UST

UST vs Gustavus Last two years UST 3 wins -1 loss

Schedule should be be and SNC vs MOSE and GA vs UST

 

[LakerFan99]

Re: Tournament Speculation Thread

Logic would have Gustavus- Gustavus vs UST

UST vs Gustavus Last two years UST 3 wins -1 loss

Schedule should be be and SNC vs MOSE and GA vs UST

Even though it's not a rule (I think it is for the women), the NCAA will almost always try to avoid playing two teams in the same conference in the first round. That would probably explain why GA is not playing UST tonight.

 

[NUProf]

Re: Tournament Speculation Thread

Even though it's not a rule (I think it is for the women), the NCAA will almost always try to avoid playing two teams in the same conference in the first round. That would probably explain why GA is not playing UST tonight.

and we have a winner! They avoid it if they can, and they could in this case. It isn't codified, but it is one of the policies that can be applied - sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't.

 

[Checking Line]

Re: Tournament Speculation Thread

I get the fact that the NCAA will try to avoid inter conference matchups (D1 I think says that right out, that teams will be moved among regionals to avoid this)

Does someone know why this is?

In this day of shrinking budgets and rising fuel prices the NCAA's position on this does not make sense.

 

[norm1909]

Re: Tournament Speculation Thread

I get the fact that the NCAA will try to avoid inter conference matchups (D1 I think says that right out, that teams will be moved among regionals to avoid this)

Does someone know why this is?

In this day of shrinking budgets and rising fuel prices the NCAA's position on this does not make sense.

It is to benefit the SUNYAC, it helps prevent Plattsburgh from knocking Oswego out to soon, and helps insure a SUNYAC team in the final.

 

[LoudHorns31]

It is to benefit the SUNYAC, it helps prevent Plattsburgh from knocking Oswego out to soon, and helps insure a SUNYAC team in the final.

Don't get to far ahead of yourself norm.... Oswego still has to take care of Elmira, just like Plattsburgh has to take care of Amherst.

 

[norm1909]

Re: Tournament Speculation Thread

Don't get to far ahead of yourself norm.... Oswego still has to take care of Elmira, just like Plattsburgh has to take care of Amherst.

That is true, but the question was ...

I get the fact that the NCAA will try to avoid inter conference matchups (D1 I think says that right out, that teams will be moved among regionals to avoid this) ... Does someone know why this is? ...

 

[MW4Bucky&SNC]

Re: Tournament Speculation Thread

A few extra hours on the road? Come on... It's a Saturday. It's not like hockey teams aren't used to traveling.

I agree with your argument for the integrity of the seedings. Just don't throw in the longer bus trip to try and convince me...

I'm not saying this try and convince you, but it is Wednesday impacted in this case and not Saturday.

Others are discussing the avoidance of conference matchups. I don't like that dicatating anything here. This isn't MLB with the rule in place regarding the Wildcard. Seed them where they should be seeded and let them go. They don't worry about avoiding conference matchups in the D1 tournament. In fact, they've bunched up the WCHA teams quite a bit over the last handful of seasons. In the Regional at the Kohl Center 4 or 5 years ago UW played Denver and then North Dakota. It just makes no sense to me that in D3 hockey where there are certain rules in place specifically to limit travel that they'd mess with the seedings and actually increase the length of trips here. It's not like I'm complaining thinking my team got the shaft on travel since they got the top seed in the Region. I just like to see the seedings with as much integrity as possible.