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Top 27 best movies - ever
- Thread starter mookie1995
- Start date
Re: Top 27 best movies - ever
It may have been obvious to many, but I missed the fact that the Thirteenth Warrior was a retelling of Beowulf.
It may have been obvious to many, but I missed the fact that the Thirteenth Warrior was a retelling of Beowulf.
Kepler
Cornell Big Red
Re: Top 27 best movies - ever
V for Vendetta, as far as I can make out (and as far as Moore has said), has nothing to do with Frankenstein, but I do appreciate insane cultural parallels and claims so I'm going to give Fish a pass on this. It's a goofy enough thesis that it's worth examining, hoping that it might hold water, because that would be cool.
Frankenstein is about a lot of things, including Mary Shelley's miscarriages, but the prevalent theme is the Romantic movement's counterattack against the Enlightenment certainty that man's intellect can encompass and eventually exceed the natural world.
V for Vendetta is about the inevitable result of rightwing attempts to achieve security through moral purges, attacks on The Other and the curtailment of civil rights: the corruption and hypocrisy of the leaders of the Surveillance State. It is, in other words, a User's Guide for the next 4 years.
An actual historical precursor of the hellish rightwing state of V was Geneva under Calvin, which set out to achieve the result that the V fascist state promises -- in their case, security of the soul rather than security from terrorism. The resulting brutal dictatorship was one of the most oppressive governments in European history, and Enlightenment thinkers celebrated its overthrow as one of the signs that "progress" was occurring. American Founders' insistence on a wall between the church and the state was predicated on it as a historical warning.
In contrast, in Frankenstein the Enlightenment personified, Victor, is a Destroyer of Worlds, and his literally unnatural explorations in Natural Philosophy stand for the radical Enlightenment's dogged proto-scientific dynamiting of all traditions and restraint. Shelley contrasts Victor's cramped quarters, ghastly experiments, narrow mind and narrow life with the healthy love and bountiful joy of his family, nature, and peasants living in Rousseau's state of pre-civilized innocence. This is an indictment of wild and blind "progress" that is the cornerstone of "conservatism" in its non-ideological sense as the conservation of human traditions.
V for Vendetta, as far as I can make out (and as far as Moore has said), has nothing to do with Frankenstein, but I do appreciate insane cultural parallels and claims so I'm going to give Fish a pass on this. It's a goofy enough thesis that it's worth examining, hoping that it might hold water, because that would be cool.
Frankenstein is about a lot of things, including Mary Shelley's miscarriages, but the prevalent theme is the Romantic movement's counterattack against the Enlightenment certainty that man's intellect can encompass and eventually exceed the natural world.
V for Vendetta is about the inevitable result of rightwing attempts to achieve security through moral purges, attacks on The Other and the curtailment of civil rights: the corruption and hypocrisy of the leaders of the Surveillance State. It is, in other words, a User's Guide for the next 4 years.
An actual historical precursor of the hellish rightwing state of V was Geneva under Calvin, which set out to achieve the result that the V fascist state promises -- in their case, security of the soul rather than security from terrorism. The resulting brutal dictatorship was one of the most oppressive governments in European history, and Enlightenment thinkers celebrated its overthrow as one of the signs that "progress" was occurring. American Founders' insistence on a wall between the church and the state was predicated on it as a historical warning.
In contrast, in Frankenstein the Enlightenment personified, Victor, is a Destroyer of Worlds, and his literally unnatural explorations in Natural Philosophy stand for the radical Enlightenment's dogged proto-scientific dynamiting of all traditions and restraint. Shelley contrasts Victor's cramped quarters, ghastly experiments, narrow mind and narrow life with the healthy love and bountiful joy of his family, nature, and peasants living in Rousseau's state of pre-civilized innocence. This is an indictment of wild and blind "progress" that is the cornerstone of "conservatism" in its non-ideological sense as the conservation of human traditions.
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mookie1995
there's a good buck in that racket.
Re: Top 27 best movies - ever
Been a good run here
Watched slap shot last night
Blues brothers just ended
Bullworth just started
Been a good run here
Watched slap shot last night
Blues brothers just ended
Bullworth just started
FadeToBlack&Gold
Kettle Medallion
Re: Top 27 best movies - ever
Thank You for Smoking: It's a solid flick, especially William H. Macy as the smug, sanctimonious career pol, but I still disagree with the climax scene. We know smoking is addictive and kills people, so why would you buy your 18 year-old kid his first pack, even if he asked for a cig after all of your "libertarian" lobbying nonsense? If he really wants to do that, then he can be an adult and choose to do it himself. To buy a pack for him, is to encourage and pressure him - not libertarian.
Thank You for Smoking: It's a solid flick, especially William H. Macy as the smug, sanctimonious career pol, but I still disagree with the climax scene. We know smoking is addictive and kills people, so why would you buy your 18 year-old kid his first pack, even if he asked for a cig after all of your "libertarian" lobbying nonsense? If he really wants to do that, then he can be an adult and choose to do it himself. To buy a pack for him, is to encourage and pressure him - not libertarian.
Re: Top 27 best movies - ever
I took it in the context like "first round's on me" IF the kid wanted to smoke.
Thank You for Smoking: It's a solid flick, especially William H. Macy as the smug, sanctimonious career pol, but I still disagree with the climax scene. We know smoking is addictive and kills people, so why would you buy your 18 year-old kid his first pack, even if he asked for a cig after all of your "libertarian" lobbying nonsense? If he really wants to do that, then he can be an adult and choose to do it himself. To buy a pack for him, is to encourage and pressure him - not libertarian.
I took it in the context like "first round's on me" IF the kid wanted to smoke.
mookie1995
there's a good buck in that racket.
Re: Top 27 best movies - ever
mookie remembers reading that they redid that. recall vaguely the first cut was the kid smoking and the dad smacked the kids face, knocking the cig out. preview audiences didn't react well to that so they reshot.
been awhile though so could be iffy on the exact details.
Thank You for Smoking: It's a solid flick, especially William H. Macy as the smug, sanctimonious career pol, but I still disagree with the climax scene. We know smoking is addictive and kills people, so why would you buy your 18 year-old kid his first pack, even if he asked for a cig after all of your "libertarian" lobbying nonsense? If he really wants to do that, then he can be an adult and choose to do it himself. To buy a pack for him, is to encourage and pressure him - not libertarian.
mookie remembers reading that they redid that. recall vaguely the first cut was the kid smoking and the dad smacked the kids face, knocking the cig out. preview audiences didn't react well to that so they reshot.
been awhile though so could be iffy on the exact details.
Re: Top 27 best movies - ever
Amoral person/people use unnatural scientific experiments on an unwilling subject to create a "monster" abhorred by regular society.
"Monster" finds one friend who accepts him for who he is; who sees past the surface.
"Monster" seeks and achieves revenge on the people who created him.
"Monster" then goes off on a suicidal trip.
One of the climactic scenes in V is the image of the "monster" walking out of his cell when the entire prison is in flames around him. It is that particular scene that first brought the parallel to mind.
I never once said that the original writer intentionally and deliberately set up the parallels. I merely observed how striking they were. I'd guess the filmmaker tossed in those parallels on a subliminal level to add nuance and texture.
Amoral person/people use unnatural scientific experiments on an unwilling subject to create a "monster" abhorred by regular society.
"Monster" finds one friend who accepts him for who he is; who sees past the surface.
"Monster" seeks and achieves revenge on the people who created him.
"Monster" then goes off on a suicidal trip.
One of the climactic scenes in V is the image of the "monster" walking out of his cell when the entire prison is in flames around him. It is that particular scene that first brought the parallel to mind.
I never once said that the original writer intentionally and deliberately set up the parallels. I merely observed how striking they were. I'd guess the filmmaker tossed in those parallels on a subliminal level to add nuance and texture.
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Re: Top 27 best movies - ever
You still need to add The Gods Must be Crazy to your list somewhere, somehow....
it's the best mishmash of "unexpected day at work"/"bumbling romance finally wins out"/"incompetent terrorists outwitted by hostages" in your original taxonomy.
You still need to add The Gods Must be Crazy to your list somewhere, somehow....
it's the best mishmash of "unexpected day at work"/"bumbling romance finally wins out"/"incompetent terrorists outwitted by hostages" in your original taxonomy.
Re: Top 27 best movies - ever
The "monster" in V didn't have just one supporter, he had the support of most of the people in London. It merely took a made-monster to stand up to the oppression of the government leaders.
The "monster" in V didn't have just one supporter, he had the support of most of the people in London. It merely took a made-monster to stand up to the oppression of the government leaders.
Kepler
Cornell Big Red
Re: Top 27 best movies - ever
Phantom of the Opera.
As I said, I am all for goofy parallels.
Phantom of the Opera.
As I said, I am all for goofy parallels.
He seems a bit angry.
dxmnkd316
Lucia Apologist
Re: Top 27 best movies - ever
I really wanted to like this movie. I turned it off after about 15
Thank You for Smoking: It's a solid flick, especially William H. Macy as the smug, sanctimonious career pol, but I still disagree with the climax scene. We know smoking is addictive and kills people, so why would you buy your 18 year-old kid his first pack, even if he asked for a cig after all of your "libertarian" lobbying nonsense? If he really wants to do that, then he can be an adult and choose to do it himself. To buy a pack for him, is to encourage and pressure him - not libertarian.
I really wanted to like this movie. I turned it off after about 15
Re: Top 27 best movies - ever
Huh. Honest, I find that interesting. Biting satire seems to be a common theme in our tastes in movies/etc.
Huh. Honest, I find that interesting. Biting satire seems to be a common theme in our tastes in movies/etc.
mookie1995
there's a good buck in that racket.
Re: Top 27 best movies - ever
now stripes is on.
tv execs must want something from mookie
now stripes is on.
tv execs must want something from mookie
mookie1995
there's a good buck in that racket.
Re: Top 27 best movies - ever
when kep starts a thread that is still going strong approaching 5yrs, get back to mookie
when kep starts a thread that is still going strong approaching 5yrs, get back to mookie
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