Time for a change at UVM

[orange]

Re: Time for a change at UVM

grant kimball is one of the few honest coaches in womans hockey. he wrote my daughter one of the nicest letters ive ever read. it was in depth and careing letters ive ever read this is the kind of coach parents want to coach there kids hes a great role model for players and coaches to bad we cant clone him

 

[zoofer]

Re: Time for a change at UVM

Not for nothing, I would like to see a women get the job....we all know great coaches, regardless of gender but since all of us here are strong believers in the power of women, and since no women coach a men's team, let's have women get the job when they have the opportunity.....

 

[Trillium]

Re: Time for a change at UVM

Not for nothing, I would like to see a women get the job....we all know great coaches, regardless of gender but since all of us here are strong believers in the power of women, and since no women coach a men's team, let's have women get the job when they have the opportunity.....

Ugh. Let's just worry about getting a good coach. There are so few of them...don't complicate it by trying to limit it to women. Besides, most girls I know would much prefer a male coach, so being a woman creates another potential recruiting obstacle, particularly if there are not strong male assistants.

 

[ARM]

Re: Time for a change at UVM

Ugh. Let's just worry about getting a good coach.

Agree with that ...

Besides, most girls I know would much prefer a male coach, so being a woman creates another potential recruiting obstacle, particularly if there are not strong male assistants.

... but that's a pretty sexist position. Sports can be very empowering for young women, but it can undermine the experience if they are being taught that when it comes to authority positions, then it is better to have males.

 

[EastFan1]

Re: Time for a change at UVM

Ugh. Let's just worry about getting a good coach. There are so few of them...don't complicate it by trying to limit it to women. Besides, most girls I know would much prefer a male coach, so being a woman creates another potential recruiting obstacle, particularly if there are not strong male assistants.

Wow. I'm going to go out on a limb and guess Trillium is not a young female progressive. I'm also going to guess he posts on this topic again and digs the hole a little deeper. I just hope someday a head female hockey coach can win a national championship and prove him(?) wrong.

 

[brookyone]

Re: Time for a change at UVM

Wow. I'm going to go out on a limb and guess Trillium is not a young female progressive. I'm also going to guess he posts on this topic again and digs the hole a little deeper. I just hope someday a head female hockey coach can win a national championship and prove him(?) wrong.

Uh...Miller...Halldorson...

I'm with Trillium, don't limit candidates by gender and attempt to hire the best / right individual.

 

[mattj711]

Re: Time for a change at UVM

Wow. I'm going to go out on a limb and guess Trillium is not a young female progressive. I'm also going to guess he posts on this topic again and digs the hole a little deeper. I just hope someday a head female hockey coach can win a national championship and prove him(?) wrong.

Trillium is a she, and I also agree with her. Pick the best candidate for the job regardless of gender.

 

[EastFan1]

Re: Time for a change at UVM

Trillium is a she, and I also agree with her. Pick the best candidate for the job regardless of gender.

Male coaches have a distinct recruiting advantage because most female recruits won't play for a woman but possibly a woman that is smart enough to hire strong male assistants instead of female assistants? Hey, if you want to agree, have at it.

 

[mattj711]

Re: Time for a change at UVM

Male coaches have a distinct recruiting advantage because most female recruits won't play for a woman but possibly a woman that is smart enough to hire strong male assistants instead of female assistants? Hey, if you want to agree, have at it.

Don't think that was what she was saying. Certainly not what I was saying. I've heard many graduating players state that they like having a male presence in the coaching ranks. It is a positive for them when choosing a college hockey program. Obviously each player chooses a program based on her own criteria/preferences, and that statement doesn't apply to every player. I believe coaches should be picked based on merit not gender.

 

[EastFan1]

Re: Time for a change at UVM

"most girls I know would much prefer a male coach, so being a woman creates another potential recruiting obstacle, particularly if there are not strong male assistants"

"I've heard many graduating players state that they like having a male presence in the coaching ranks. It is a positive for them when choosing a college hockey program."

Well then that settles it. Let's get the best coaching staff regardless of gender unless, well, you know.

 

[mattj711]

Re: Time for a change at UVM

"most girls I know would much prefer a male coach, so being a woman creates another potential recruiting obstacle, particularly if there are not strong male assistants"

"I've heard many graduating players state that they like having a male presence in the coaching ranks. It is a positive for them when choosing a college hockey program."

Well then that settles it. Let's get the best coaching staff regardless of gender unless, well, you know.

Not going to continue arguing with you. Take your beef up with the players that want a male coach if you don't like it. For what it is worth, there are currently some female assistant coaches that I think will make great headed coaches when they get the opportunity.

 

[ARM]

Re: Time for a change at UVM

I see this as a discussion, not an argument. An argument is about something that will cost you money if you lose, or maybe where you disagree with people that you don't like.

Maybe the players aren't looking far enough down the road. It's fine to be 17, selecting a school, and think, "I'd really like to learn from a male rather than a female." The problem comes when that young lady is 10 years older, looking for work, and is told, "We already have enough females. We want to hire a male now." A lot of forms of discrimination have fairly innocent origins. If the problem is that the female coaches they've experienced aren't as knowledgeable, then that is a different issue.

 

[chippy]

Re: Time for a change at UVM

[/QUOTE] The problem comes when that young lady is 10 years older, looking for work, and is told, "We already have enough females. We want to hire a male now." A lot of forms of discrimination have fairly innocent origins. If the problem is that the female coaches they've experienced aren't as knowledgeable,[/QUOTE]

Are you fricken kidden me.... you didn't really just say that!!!! And I thought after these last few years you maybe knew things....sheeesh

Chip

 

[ARM]

Re: Time for a change at UVM

Are you fricken kidden me.... you didn't really just say that!!!! And I thought after these last few years you maybe knew things....sheeesh

Nah -- I say a lot of dumb things. But I stand by this one. If people think it is okay to hire a male over a female, based on gender, not performance, then that to me is discrimination, no matter how well-intentioned.

 

[EastFan1]

Re: Time for a change at UVM

A recruit that won't play for a black coach is racist. A recruit that won't play for a woman is sexist. Get a male coach because most recruits won't play hockey for a woman head coach but possibly if she has a strong male assistant? Get a white head coach because most recruits won't play for a black head coach unless he has a strong white assistant?

 

[puckskillz]

Re: Time for a change at UVM

Gender aside, this is going to be a tough fill for a qualified D-I coach. Whether you agree/disagree with the personnel decisions, the spectacle created by the animosity and published details about the coaches and players has created a very negative perception of the situation in Burlington. Once potential recruits are moving on and OJ's/others persistence has likely left the Admin no choice but to start completely fresh. You likely will need a seasoned D-I coach who has the ability and track record of convincing elite players that this will be a "healthy" enviroment to come to. By "healthy" I mean quality coaches, supportive teammates, and supportive fans, win or lose. Based on what's been openly discussed, that is a tough, tough sell. God forbid they start under .500 next year or we'll see another thread.

 

[Eeyore]

Re: Time for a change at UVM

Trillium is a she, and I also agree with her. Pick the best candidate for the job regardless of gender.

I would agree with this, but . . .

When was the last time a woman was hired to coach a big time men's program? It is extremely clear that there is not a single athletic department with a D1 hockey program in the country that chooses the best coach regardless of gender. Zero. That is also true of just about men's programs in every other sport. They always choose a man to coach a men's team. Coming back and arguing that positions coaching women's teams should be open to everyone regardless of gender without demanding the same thing for men's teams is sexist. You are saying that women get to compete for fewer than half of the jobs and are completely shut out of the rest.

Get back to me when there is evidence that schools really are hiring coaches on a gender neutral basis rather than giving it lip service. Until then, I'm going to continue to argue that men should not be allowed to coach women's teams. Either ghettoize on both sides or neither.

 

[SlewFoot]

Re: Time for a change at UVM

Gender aside, this is going to be a tough fill for a qualified D-I coach. Whether you agree/disagree with the personnel decisions, the spectacle created by the animosity and published details about the coaches and players has created a very negative perception of the situation in Burlington. Once potential recruits are moving on and OJ's/others persistence has likely left the Admin no choice but to start completely fresh. You likely will need a seasoned D-I coach who has the ability and track record of convincing elite players that this will be a "healthy" enviroment to come to. By "healthy" I mean quality coaches, supportive teammates, and supportive fans, win or lose. Based on what's been openly discussed, that is a tough, tough sell. God forbid they start under .500 next year or we'll see another thread.

Well put Puckskillz. It will be a tougher sell and the administration will have a harder time finding someone qualified (regardless of gender) after the airing of dirty laundry by OJ and others.

 

[olive.juice]

Re: Time for a change at UVM

I'm done.

This will certainly make some of you "keepers" of the forum happy. Some of you just seem to have too much time on your hands and appear to "get off" on pontificating your opinions. I have been on this forum for a very short time with a specific purpose but some of you have been spewing your opinions for years. Wow. Really, some of you take your opinions too seriously and you know what they say about opinions, they are like, well, you know, everyone has one. I understand this but here is my final take on that.

I started this thread for one purpose and although I am taking little credit for the recent resignation of Bothwell, this thread clearly was in the mix with the people who make the decisions at UVM and also with many of the posters (some of who has less than pleasant comments, me included.) It made a difference. My point is that this thread was about exposing Mr. Bothwell and now, the AD for their poor handling of the team for the last few years based upon the teams lack of success. The purpose was accomplished. All is not lost though and I will have a final comment on that in a moment.

Please spare me the lecture about anonymous postings and who I am. This whole forum (and most others too) allow for (hell, they encourage) anonymous people to post items to further agendas. Tell me this statement does not fit some of you too. I had an agenda, true. It was successful, true. I am done now, true. When you all decide to post your full name let me know and I will come back and do the same. You are all just as anonymous as me. Until then, know this, I may be the person sitting next to you at UVM, I may be a coach, player, former player, parent, staff, supporter, and maybe not even from VT. Do you really care? I am done and my only regret is that I did not start this thread earlier as too many players/people in that program were hurt, yes hurt, by the most recent coaching/AD arrangement. Their D1 college hockey experience was less than what was offered them. But thanks for the education!

Going forward, I will be an even bigger supporter of this program (look for me!) now that the change is made. To offer a final thought on who might succeed Bothwell first let me say that people really need to look at the AD as the real problem there (hmmmmm maybe another thread) as he let this happen far too long (friendship?) Trust me on this. This team is very talented and did not want to play for Bothwell. Mickey Mouse can step in there and this team will be successful, maybe as soon as next year. Watch out for them. All is not lost. The talent level is deep and set up for years to come. Recruits should not be worried now that Bothwell is gone. With Gilligan recruiting talent (and we all know his resume) things are in place for more quality players to come their way. It would not surprise me to see them seriously compete for the playoffs next year yes, with Mickey Mouse as coach. Really though, they will put someone there (please Mr. AD not your son, as has been rumored) man, women, white, black, Canadian, American, who will find a close-nit talented group who want to play for someone other than the previous coach. All is not lost. This is now a healthy, vibrant, hockey environment!

Some of you can now begin to slam me (and post cute little smart-*** comments) for this thread and this post but I will not bite. When I say I am done, I am done. My agenda completed. My MISSION is ACCOMPLISHED.

See you around?

 

[SlewFoot]

Re: Time for a change at UVM

My agenda completed. My MISSION is ACCOMPLISHED.

Is that you George?