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Time for a change at UVM

Time for a change at UVM


  • Total voters
    27
Re: Time for a change at UVM

Seriously? You're telling me a coach at a D1 institution should have to choose between being able to take ONE big road trip a year more than 5 hours from campus and being able to recruit or buy more/better equipment?

Yes there are limits and everyone has a "budget" to work within, (ok maybe not everyone), but this is scraping the bottom of the barrel.
 
Re: Time for a change at UVM

Seriously? You're telling me a coach at a D1 institution should have to choose between being able to take ONE big road trip a year more than 5 hours from campus and being able to recruit or buy more/better equipment?

Yes there are limits and everyone has a "budget" to work within, (ok maybe not everyone), but this is scraping the bottom of the barrel.

Why is it scraping the bottom of the barrel?......If you had to choose between between giving out an extra 10G's to land an extra recruit, vs taking a plane trip out west with your team, vs getting more/proper equipment for your team, which would you choose?

Unless you live in a world of unlimited resources, budget tradeoffs have to be made all the time, whether it be a lower profile D1 sport or some real business world scenario. During downturns in an economy it is not uncommon to have to choose between laying off more people vs less capital expenditures vs less travel for all vs some other sacrifice.
 
Re: Time for a change at UVM

Seriously? You're telling me a coach at a D1 institution should have to choose between being able to take ONE big road trip a year more than 5 hours from campus and being able to recruit or buy more/better equipment?

Yes there are limits and everyone has a "budget" to work within, (ok maybe not everyone), but this is scraping the bottom of the barrel.

It's Maine, not Wisconsin with oooodles of money flowing in from a stadium full of football/hoop fans and related TV contracts. State universities in this neck of the woods have felt severe cutbacks overall, and a good portion is cut out of athletic budgets.

Additionally, at the time of her hire, a new athletic director was starting as well and the budget for the 2010-11 season had already been established. The new AD brought a new attitude to the athletic department that resulted in greater support for the women's program going forward. As I understand it, there were a number of changes instituted immediately, and others that have been phased in.
 
Re: Time for a change at UVM

It's Maine, not Wisconsin with oooodles of money flowing in from a stadium full of football/hoop fans and related TV contracts. State universities in this neck of the woods have felt severe cutbacks overall, and a good portion is cut out of athletic budgets.

Additionally, at the time of her hire, a new athletic director was starting as well and the budget for the 2010-11 season had already been established. The new AD brought a new attitude to the athletic department that resulted in greater support for the women's program going forward. As I understand it, there were a number of changes instituted immediately, and others that have been phased in.

A number of changes instituted immediately...because they had 1 full time assistant (not sure if this was at Lewis' request too or not?) and scrapped their trip out west and were able to use that extra money to support other initiatives. But again, that is the point. That is not really "increased support" for the program that is just a shuffling of the resources. That program needs to have 2 full time assistants, needs to be able to travel to fill their schedule, and needs to be able to purchase good equipment and have enough money to recruit. Lewis says as much in the article. Vermont doesn't have a bigtime football or hoops program either but they are able to find the funds to, in her mind, adequately support a successful program in the future. If UVM can do it...if UNH can do it...if Northeastern can do it...why can't Maine?
 
Re: Time for a change at UVM

Ha...Maine is probably lucky from what I hear to have more than 10k in their entire recruiting budget as it is so I doubt that they will be spending an extra 10k to land a single recruit anytime soon. Regardless, that isn't the point. Or maybe it is. This program is so unbelievably under-funded that it is sickening and the fact that they continue to take away from and restrict their ability to provide the basic needs of their program is pathetic and they may well lose a very good coach because of it. Other programs of a similar stature...UNH, UVM among others...have found the ability to invest in their programs without having great state funding or other big-time athletics programs to support their non-revenue sports. You don't hear about those guys not being able to fill their schedules because they don't have money to travel. You don't hear about those guys not being able to provide the best equipment. You don't hear about those guys having to choose between recruiting and playing games. You don't hear about their entire staff making less than the head coaches of other programs, you don't hear about their assistant coaches making $24,000 a year (seem to remember that number being mentioned on here a couple seasons back before Lewis was hired). They've taken, and taken, and taken, and taken from the Maine program to the point that there is nothing left to take. They need to provide something that resembles a reasonable amount of support for their program and stop forcing their coaches to make impossible decisions about what ELSE to cut out of their program that other competing programs are providing to their athletes. Or else you get this...Maine finally experiences some success and no sooner than that happens they could once again be faced with tons of uncertainty. The next first-time head coach they have to hire may not have the same success Lewis has had and all of this progress could be gone just as soon as it got here.
 
Re: Time for a change at UVM

Ha...Maine is probably lucky from what I hear to have more than 10k in their entire recruiting budget as it is so I doubt that they will be spending an extra 10k to land a single recruit anytime soon. Regardless, that isn't the point. Or maybe it is. This program is so unbelievably under-funded that it is sickening and the fact that they continue to take away from and restrict their ability to provide the basic needs of their program is pathetic and they may well lose a very good coach because of it. Other programs of a similar stature...UNH, UVM among others...have found the ability to invest in their programs without having great state funding or other big-time athletics programs to support their non-revenue sports. You don't hear about those guys not being able to fill their schedules because they don't have money to travel. You don't hear about those guys not being able to provide the best equipment. You don't hear about those guys having to choose between recruiting and playing games. You don't hear about their entire staff making less than the head coaches of other programs, you don't hear about their assistant coaches making $24,000 a year (seem to remember that number being mentioned on here a couple seasons back before Lewis was hired). They've taken, and taken, and taken, and taken from the Maine program to the point that there is nothing left to take. They need to provide something that resembles a reasonable amount of support for their program and stop forcing their coaches to make impossible decisions about what ELSE to cut out of their program that other competing programs are providing to their athletes. Or else you get this...Maine finally experiences some success and no sooner than that happens they could once again be faced with tons of uncertainty. The next first-time head coach they have to hire may not have the same success Lewis has had and all of this progress could be gone just as soon as it got here.

I say we move this topic to "Maine Women's Hockey How to Run A D1 Program on a D3 Budget"....and stay on the topic of UVM Women's Hockey and what they are doing in their seach for a new coach. Really I would like to know if anyone has any ideas who is being interviewed besides this Maine Coach and maybe the current Assistant.....anybody got any insight....not that either of these are a bad choice but I would think there must be more (although I hear Bolding is staying put, did anyone else hear that?) Hard to believe they would not want to talk to him but maybe he is just happy at Norwich?
 
Re: Time for a change at UVM

. Really I would like to know if anyone has any ideas who is being interviewed besides this Maine Coach and maybe the current Assistant.....anybody got any insight....not that either of these are a bad choice but I would think there must be more (although I hear Bolding is staying put, did anyone else hear that?) Hard to believe they would not want to talk to him but maybe he is just happy at Norwich?

Maybe we should just wait a couple of weeks and then we will get our final answer on who the new UVM coach is. As per earlier postings, they are in the interviewing stage and announcments are to be expected in a few weeks.

Its spring. Hockey Season is over. Weather is great. Go outside and do some yard work to keep yourselves busy in the meantime. :D

Up here we are glued to the tube every night with great NHL playoff hockey. :) :) :)
 
Re: Time for a change at UVM

Maybe we should just wait a couple of weeks and then we will get our final answer on who the new UVM coach is. As per earlier postings, they are in the interviewing stage and announcments are to be expected in a few weeks.

Its spring. Hockey Season is over. Weather is great. Go outside and do some yard work to keep yourselves busy in the meantime. :D

Up here we are glued to the tube every night with great NHL playoff hockey. :) :) :)

I think that is good advice. From the Maine article it sounds as if UVM will try to introduce the coach by the end of next week. I've heard lots of names but I don't want to spread rumors since that is all they are, rumors.
 
Re: Time for a change at UVM

http://bangordailynews.com/2012/04/...-university-of-maine-womens-ice-hockey-coach/

From the story:
Lewis said she was flattered to be asked to interview at Vermont, but wanted to stay at Maine all along and continue building the program into a national championship contender. In her meeting with Ferguson and Abbott, they said they supported her and the program and were committed to doing what they can to help her elevate the program into a position of prominence.

"committed to doing what they can" doesn't sound like much will change.

I think you could do a seminar on "Things Not to Do" in a job search. If I'm reading the tea leaves correctly I would have to say this. If you are not happy make sure you think about the consequences of your actions. Do not agree to interview with a competitor and then publicly embarrass your current employer through the press. Do not interview with a competitor unless you are serious about taking the job. Do not use the interview as leverage and if you do use it as leverage make sure that you get what you want in writing before agreeing to stay. All this exercise accomplished was to expose Maine as an underfunded program whose long term viability is at the very least questionable which in my opinion is not a very good message to send to recruits and current players.
 
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Re: Time for a change at UVM

I'm not sure based on the information we have read that Lewis has made many missteps here. She is known for her transparency and has just stated the situation as it is. It's a small hockey community out here and especially up at Maine it is a visible sport. Once the AD gave approval for Vermont to approach her and he made that public she was really thrust into a position to state her intents. The economic differences are large enough that she owed it to herself and family to investigate. She did not generate the leverage as that already existed with the compensation extremes of the two programs. As far as "locking" in compensation and program funding increases, she has proven her marketability and the University will need to support this or she will be gone in another year.

As mentioned earlier in the thread, this may be a tough environment to attract top-end coaches. Between the campaign to fire the head coach and details disclosed about the players and overall environment it may not be very attractive regardless of pay. Normally dismissals are handled more discreetly and the incoming staff can operate under the radar for a while. This is likely not the case here.
 
Re: Time for a change at UVM

I'm not sure based on the information we have read that Lewis has made many missteps here. She is known for her transparency and has just stated the situation as it is. It's a small hockey community out here and especially up at Maine it is a visible sport. Once the AD gave approval for Vermont to approach her and he made that public she was really thrust into a position to state her intents. The economic differences are large enough that she owed it to herself and family to investigate. She did not generate the leverage as that already existed with the compensation extremes of the two programs. As far as "locking" in compensation and program funding increases, she has proven her marketability and the University will need to support this or she will be gone in another year.

As mentioned earlier in the thread, this may be a tough environment to attract top-end coaches. Between the campaign to fire the head coach and details disclosed about the players and overall environment it may not be very attractive regardless of pay. Normally dismissals are handled more discreetly and the incoming staff can operate under the radar for a while. This is likely not the case here.

I respect your opinion and you bring up some good points. I do agree with the last paragraph on the Vermont situation. I think the high tech lynching has hurt this program but that's another discussioin. Having advised many employers on employment issues I have some experience with these matters. While I hear nothing but good things about Ms. Lewis I think she can learn something about the right way to handle this type of situation. Rarely, if ever, does it do anybody any good to air your problems in the press. I appreciate her transparency but sometimes, especially in matters like these, its best to use the "No comment" line when talking to the press about sensitive matters.
 
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Re: Time for a change at UVM

In a landscape filled with many unknowns and at times deception it is refreshing to see a Coach like Lewis where everything is on the table. Maybe you think Lewis has made mistakes in her handling of the situation. Every decision and move she has made has led her program to improvement. The most valuable asset to any program is their head coach. They are the leader, the manager and the boss. As long as Lewis is at Maine they will continue to grow and improve. From the articles it is clear Lewis has a deep connection with the school and women's hockey program. Lewis has been a part of two programs before Maine who are both now top ten teams in the country. When Lewis arrived at both those schools they were in the growing process. She has a great deal of experience and was able to work with two head coaches as they built their programs. Maine's freshmen class this played key roles in their games. They recruited that class with 6 wins the year before and a new head coach with no head coaching experience. I'm confident in saying that an article will not derail their continued growth and success. They did just finish tied for 4th in HE and 17-11-6 overall, but only time will tell.
 
Re: Time for a change at UVM

In a landscape filled with many unknowns and at times deception it is refreshing to see a Coach like Lewis where everything is on the table. Maybe you think Lewis has made mistakes in her handling of the situation. Every decision and move she has made has led her program to improvement. The most valuable asset to any program is their head coach. They are the leader, the manager and the boss. As long as Lewis is at Maine they will continue to grow and improve. From the articles it is clear Lewis has a deep connection with the school and women's hockey program. Lewis has been a part of two programs before Maine who are both now top ten teams in the country. When Lewis arrived at both those schools they were in the growing process. She has a great deal of experience and was able to work with two head coaches as they built their programs. Maine's freshmen class this played key roles in their games. They recruited that class with 6 wins the year before and a new head coach with no head coaching experience. I'm confident in saying that an article will not derail their continued growth and success. They did just finish tied for 4th in HE and 17-11-6 overall, but only time will tell.

No doubt she is a good coach and I am not questioning her character. I was not so much talking about Ms. Lewis personally as I was talking about the facts of the situation and how it transpired. I like to see the underfunded underdog win (I like small market professional teams too). I sincerely wish her all the best.
 
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Re: Time for a change at UVM

Maine women's hockey is a non-revenue generating sport. Admission is free and there are usually no more than 200 fans present. It's difficult to obligate more resources to a sport not bringing in money. Currently, similar to swimming and Track & Field (X-Country). I am hopeful that Maria Lewis will continue her success in building the program and that eventually a fan base will develop that will support the program.
 
Re: Time for a change at UVM

If true, that is a good hire. That guy wins, has the respect of his players and coaching peers.
 
Re: Time for a change at UVM

If true, that is a good hire. That guy wins, has the respect of his players and coaching peers.

If that is true and I see nothing on the UVM website so the poster must have inside info.....The guy is a good coach and a respected coach.....I still find it a little odd that you have a 3 time (consecutive no less) Division 3 coach of the year sitting in you own back yard and you go elsewhere?? Just would have liked to have seen Coach Bolding get a shot to show what he could do......If he was even interviewed
 
Re: Time for a change at UVM

If that is true and I see nothing on the UVM website so the poster must have inside info.....The guy is a good coach and a respected coach.....I still find it a little odd that you have a 3 time (consecutive no less) Division 3 coach of the year sitting in you own back yard and you go elsewhere?? Just would have liked to have seen Coach Bolding get a shot to show what he could do......If he was even interviewed

You can't just hire someone because you want them. They have to want to be there too. Maybe he was offered the shot and turned it down? Maybe he wasn't, but you can't say it's odd he wasn't given the chance or that they went outside their backyard for the hire without really knowing what both sides were saying/doing.
 
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