Time for a change at UVM

[olive.juice]

Tim Bothwell must go...

7 wins each year since he has been there...six years...on pace to win 5 this year...

Gilligan recruits talented girls every year

Results are the same since he has been there

no women on staff for 4 years now

These are facts...

Say what you want but this program will not change as long as he is the coach...

 

[rugrats]

Tim Bothwell must go...

7 wins each year since he has been there...six years...on pace to win 5 this year...

Gilligan recruits talented girls every year

Results are the same since he has been there

no women on staff for 4 years now

These are facts...

Say what you want but this program will not change as long as he is the coach...

Well, word on the street is that it's party central at UVM. Girls gone wild. So yeah, coach needs to control that.

 

[PrezdeJohnson09]

Re: Time for a change at UVM

Amanda Pelkey was one of the top recruits in the country coming into this season so UVM keeping her in the state of Vermont was a plus. Now they need to keep building off players like her and their goaltender.

 

[Bauer86]

Re: Time for a change at UVM

Bothwell won't be going anywhere as long as Athletic Director Corran is there- word has it that the two are good friends. I know of two girls that have transferred from there and have complained about the party atmosphere to the AD and he has obviously done nothing...you can see from how many girls leave each year from uvm that there is a problem going on there...that problem is evident with the Uconn huskies as well- coaching changes are a must in order for these teams to get on top. Look how Maine has improved over the last year or so with the coaching changes!

 

[Blackbeard]

Re: Time for a change at UVM

Bothwell won't be going anywhere as long as Athletic Director Corran is there- word has it that the two are good friends. I know of two girls that have transferred from there and have complained about the party atmosphere to the AD and he has obviously done nothing...you can see from how many girls leave each year from uvm that there is a problem going on there...that problem is evident with the Uconn huskies as well- coaching changes are a must in order for these teams to get on top. Look how Maine has improved over the last year or so with the coaching changes!

I had heard of players showing up for practice hungover from the night before and others who hadn't made it that far along in the process...meaning, they weren't yet hungover.

To the extent that this is/was true it is a disgrace and a show of disrespect to the University of Vermont and a sign of immaturity on the part of the offending players.

If one assumes the stories are true what does the coach do if he is aware and if he cares? Does he have a private heart to heart talk with each of the guilty parties, reduce their playing time, bench them, hoof them off the team, threaten to turn the tap off re: their scholarship funds, other alternatives?

 

[olive.juice]

Re: Time for a change at UVM

Amanda Pelkey was one of the top recruits in the country coming into this season so UVM keeping her in the state of Vermont was a plus. Now they need to keep building off players like her and their goaltender.

Pelkey is a very talented hockey player and she can make everyone around her that much better however if you have watched her play this year she is all over the ice and on the ice way too much. Hockey East is not NAHA and end to end rushes are reserved for the truly skilled and elite...neither is having 5 forwards (4 freshmen) on the power play. As long as Bothwell sees her as the savior of the program and not reel her in she will not help this program and ultimately move on

 

[offtheice]

Re: Time for a change at UVM

dinosaurs HC like Bothwell and Flanagan (Murphy) must go, they keep losing and are out of touch with their players

 

[LG4]

Re: Time for a change at UVM

Looking at clips from time to time it does seem that the same bodies are on goals for and against (indicating overplaying ?). Big range in team plus/minus stats too. I did notice the pp on the last few clips seemed a bit odd in terms of personnel but trying different looks- unsuccessfully perhaps. Maybe the players who would/should play more are being sat because of problems alluded to .

 

[offtheice]

Re: Time for a change at UVM

add McCloskey to the list of dinosaurs that keep losing players

 

[Bauer86]

Re: Time for a change at UVM

and Linstad from Uconn...look at the bottom three teams in hockey east standings and look who their coaches are

 

[olive.juice]

Re: Time for a change at UVM

Looking at clips from time to time it does seem that the same bodies are on goals for and against (indicating overplaying ?). Big range in team plus/minus stats too. I did notice the pp on the last few clips seemed a bit odd in terms of personnel but trying different looks- unsuccessfully perhaps. Maybe the players who would/should play more are being sat because of problems alluded to .

Regardless of what Bothwell is trying--unsuccessfully for sure--the facts are clear. For 6 years now this program has won an average of 7 games. Of the other teams at the bottom of the Hockey East back then all of them--except VT--have made the playoffs and built respectable programs. What happened you might ask. All three team back then now have new coaches...simple solution yet difficult to get Bothwell to move on since he is clearly in the back pocket of the AD.

I too know several of the girls that have left the program and several of the current players and can assure you that no more or less partying goes on at UVM than does at any other school. Coach Bothwell is simply out of touch with coaching at this level and more specifically girls since he has no kids of his own...stay tuned...

 

[hocper]

Re: Time for a change at UVM

I don't think it's time for a change just yet. You have to consider the support UVM has given this program (#of scholarships, budgets etc) and.. until recently (last 2 years) the impact of great recruiting efforts by Grant Kimball and Mike Gilligan. I would say after a few more years (when does Bothwell's contract end?) the AD would determine if Coach Botherwell is heading the program in the right direction. It wasn't like the program was a national contender when Bothwell took over.

As far as drinking and partying....if players are that disrespectful...they might have no problem complaining on the INTERNET about how their coach is too blame for all or simply complain to an AD, School President etc.......they might also have a very negative impact on the players Bothwell has brought in.....thus taking more time then the customary 4-5 years to change a program completely.

Consider last year how many ties this team had.......if half are wins/half losses....you have over 10 wins....any complaining then??

 

[olive.juice]

Re: Time for a change at UVM

I don't think it's time for a change just yet. You have to consider the support UVM has given this program (#of scholarships, budgets etc) and.. until recently (last 2 years) the impact of great recruiting efforts by Grant Kimball and Mike Gilligan. I would say after a few more years (when does Bothwell's contract end?) the AD would determine if Coach Botherwell is heading the program in the right direction. It wasn't like the program was a national contender when Bothwell took over.

As far as drinking and partying....if players are that disrespectful...they might have no problem complaining on the INTERNET about how their coach is too blame for all or simply complain to an AD, School President etc.......they might also have a very negative impact on the players Bothwell has brought in.....thus taking more time then the customary 4-5 years to change a program completely.
Consider last year how many ties this team had.......if half are wins/half losses....you have over 10 wins....any complaining then??

Mike Gilligan has been there virtually from the beginning and has used his impressive hockey reputation and experience to bring in talented girls every year and not just the last two as you suggest. It is no secret that Bothwell and the AD enjoy a friendly relationship suggesting his job is more than secure regardless of when his contract ends. BTW have heard that he makes upwards of 125K... True UVM was not a contender when Bothwell began but what program is? How long does it take to "build" a program? How long do you continue to virtually lie to your recruits that you are building a team with them as the focus for the future...I suggest 6 years is far too long. Further, BU, Northeastern, and Maine were also non factors 5-6 years ago but where are they now? Playoff teams and solid programs headed in the right direction each with new coaches in the last 3 years.

You clearly do not have enough knowledge and/or have not watched this program closely. Drinking and partying is an issue at every school and if you don't believe it then you are not being realistic. I do agree that it affects different teams in different ways...frankly some in a positive way. But this is far from the case at UVM. All programs have exceptions however by and large they are fine young ladies, solid academics, solid D1 hockey skills. They consistently graduate all of their girls and rank at the top academically in Hockey East and NCAA.

You seem to suggest that I am a player or a former player. Maybe. I might also be a parent of a player or former player or of a potential player. I could also be staff or a coach who has witnessed this program fail to move forward since Bothwell has coached however, the facts are the facts...I simply want a new direction and I know many others who feel the same way. UVM is a wonderful school...the school, community, hockey world and more importantly the players deserve better...

 

[high slot]

My kid was heavily recruited by Bothwell 4 years ago. At the time, we were both very much impressed by him and thought he would turn the program around.

She decided to go elsewhere and when she called him, he was very unprofessional. Like most kids when they chose a school, she had to call a bunch of coaches and tell them she wasn't coming. He was the only one who wasn't gracious. My opinion of him changed right then.

 

[OnMAA]

Re: Time for a change at UVM

You on the Juice? Never really believed everything "OJ" said in the past....

...All kidding aside, College Kids partying is supposed to be controlled by whom ?.....We have one daughter who studies rathers than parties with her teammates, and as a result she is considered an outcast by some of the party girls on her hockey team. We have another daughter who did like the social life a bit more, lasted only three years on the hockey team, but was succesful in school and now in Med School. Well guess what. I'm proud of both of them. They come out of school with a degree and learn many valuable lessons along the way.

My point is this......It is up to the player to make responsible decisions...Coach can only have guidelines and rules that everyone should follow. His role should be to give guidance, not to be a babysitter. These are college kids, not teenagers, so time for them to grow up, and face the consequences of bad decisions. The school can put programs in place to limit/control this type of behaviour, but in the end, it is up to the players to take some responsibility as well.

If you've been around this board long enough, you will know how I feel about "insiders" coming on here in an attempt to run a coach out of town.

Later Eh !

 

[olive.juice]

Re: Time for a change at UVM

You on the Juice? Never really believed everything "OJ" said in the past....

...All kidding aside, College Kids partying is supposed to be controlled by whom ?.....We have one daughter who studies rathers than parties with her teammates, and as a result she is considered an outcast by some of the party girls on her hockey team. We have another daughter who did like the social life a bit more, lasted only three years on the hockey team, but was succesful in school and now in Med School. Well guess what. I'm proud of both of them. They come out of school with a degree and learn many valuable lessons along the way.

My point is this......It is up to the player to make responsible decisions...Coach can only have guidelines and rules that everyone should follow. His role should be to give guidance, not to be a babysitter. These are college kids, not teenagers, so time for them to grow up, and face the consequences of bad decisions. The school can put programs in place to limit/control this type of behaviour, but in the end, it is up to the players to take some responsibility as well.

If you've been around this board long enough, you will know how I feel about "insiders" coming on here in an attempt to run a coach out of town.

Later Eh !

Well OnMAA...I apologize if I offended. I did not realize this was such an exclusive board. I could not agree with you more on the drinking/partying issue. Going forward, I will be careful to state simply the facts of what I know and not editorialize. Really though, the facts are pretty cut and dry here and if you want to call it an attempt to run a coach out of town this is your prerogative however, the hard facts are pretty scary.

 

[rugrats]

My point is this......It is up to the player to make responsible decisions...Coach can only have guidelines and rules that everyone should follow. His role should be to give guidance, not to be a babysitter. These are college kids, not teenagers, so time for them to grow up, and face the consequences of bad decisions. The school can put programs in place to limit/control this type of behaviour, but in the end, it is up to the players to take some responsibility as well.

If you've been around this board long enough, you will know how I feel about "insiders" coming on here in an attempt to run a coach out of town.

Later Eh !

Actually, coaching is very much like babysitting. Ask any pro coach of any sport that has young single people on a team. Rules are in place, you break them you pay the consequences for making bad choices. The players must take responsibility to hold each other in check. Every college kid, athlete or otherwise, is going to party, but as a member of a team a player has to pick their moments to let their hair down. There is a time and place for everything. Sacrifices have to be made and if you can't control yourself and show respect for your teammates and coaches, then see ya... hit the road.

If a coach can't control his players, he/she is making that decision (bad) not to hold them accountable. This appears to be the case here, so the AD must be ok with the current situation.

I haven't been around this board long enough.... good grief.

 

[rugrats]

My kid was heavily recruited by Bothwell 4 years ago. At the time, we were both very much impressed by him and thought he would turn the program around.

She decided to go elsewhere and when she called him, he was very unprofessional. Like most kids when they chose a school, she had to call a bunch of coaches and tell them she wasn't coming. He was the only one who wasn't gracious. My opinion of him changed right then.

Good to know!!!! That speaks volumes! Thanks for sharing.

 

[brookyone]

Re: Time for a change at UVM

My point is this......It is up to the player to make responsible decisions...Coach can only have guidelines and rules that everyone should follow. His role should be to give guidance, not to be a babysitter. These are college kids, not teenagers, so time for them to grow up, and face the consequences of bad decisions. The school can put programs in place to limit/control this type of behaviour, but in the end, it is up to the players to take some responsibility as well.

The consequences of bad, irresponsible decisions or behavior go beyond the individual player unfortunately. In the presence of such activity, small scale or widespread the coaches responsibility goes beyond simple guidance. The coach is responsible for every facet of the program, not the least of which is the experience of responsible members of the team who responsibly choose to abstain from behavior that is detrimental to the team. If the coach is not dealing with behavior of individual players negatively affecting the teams potential success and many other aspects of the experience for all members of the team, staff, program and the school in an effective, proactive manner...the coach isn't doing his / her job, and should be replaced. An AD aware of such circumstances and turning a blind eye should also be reviewed by university officials.

There are many examples of coaches who don't stand for such behavior from their players and a quick, effective response.

There are quite a few examples of the opposite as well. A few years ago several key members of the Minnesota men's hockey team were caught up in an underage frequent bar hopping / drinking scandal. Very little ever came of that for the players or the coach. Probably a little of the "boys will be boys" mentality involved. Not sure the women get the benefit of that.

 

[OnMAA]

Re: Time for a change at UVM

The consequences of bad, irresponsible decisions or behavior go beyond the individual player unfortunately. In the presence of such activity, small scale or widespread the coaches responsibility goes beyond simple guidance. The coach is responsible for every facet of the program, not the least of which is the experience of responsible members of the team who responsibly choose to abstain from behavior that is detrimental to the team. If the coach is not dealing with behavior of individual players negatively affecting the teams potential success and many other aspects of the experience for all members of the team, staff, program and the school in an effective, proactive manner...the coach isn't doing his / her job, and should be replaced. An AD aware of such circumstances and turning a blind eye should also be reviewed by university officials.

There are many examples of coaches who don't stand for such behavior from their players and a quick, effective response.

There are quite a few examples of the opposite as well. A few years ago several key members of the Minnesota men's hockey team were caught up in an underage frequent bar hopping / drinking scandal. Very little ever came of that for the players or the coach. Probably a little of the "boys will be boys" mentality involved. Not sure the women get the benefit of that.

You make many valid points, and agree that it is up to the coach to set and ensure that a standard is maintained, and that appropriate actions are taken when someone does not follow that standard.

I was kind of responding to the one sided trend of all the posters, just blaming the coach for everything. That is a cop-out. You are quite right, that everyone on the team needs to be a responsible team player and support their team mates, however having said that, if someone does not toe that line, that is that persons's responsibility, and they should be held accountable. It is very easy for some to blow off steam here, but that to me is also a cop out. Just trying to give a more balanced view.