Tier I & Tier II MA Girls's to Nationals?

[fireandice]

Re: Tier I & Tier II MA Girls's to Nationals?

I agree with NoGo and Pakidnyc, bottom line is spitfires girls will be blamed regardless of the pressure that is put on them. I'm sure it will be an expense that a lot of folks can't afford, but will, in order for their organization to stay in good grace with Mass Hockey. I have an idea, let The Mass District pay the expenses if it's so important. I think Tier 2 was set up for a reason which was to recognize the different levels of hockey and letting Tier 1 dip down to Tier 2 defeats what should be happening here. Let the Tier 2 girls have their day.

 

[IceIsNice]

Re: Tier I & Tier II MA Girls's to Nationals?

Hey, I think I kind of understand this now....

It's like, let's say the PGA took the runner up at the Masters, and had him participate at the US Senior Open.

Am I getting this right?

 

[NoGo]

Re: Tier I & Tier II MA Girls's to Nationals?

Hey, I think I kind of understand this now....

It's like, let's say the PGA took the runner up at the Masters, and had him participate at the US Senior Open.

Am I getting this right?

Kinda

 

[IceIsNice]

Re: Tier I & Tier II MA Girls's to Nationals?

Day 1:

U-19 Mass Spitfires defeat Erie Lady Lions, 12-0
U-16 Mass Spitfires defeat Quakers, 8-1
U-14 Bay State Breakers defeat Team Pittsburgh, 7-0
U-12 Bay State Breakers defeat Team Pittsburgh, 12-1

No further comment as of now....but it will be interesting to follow.

 

[Sweden]

Re: Tier I & Tier II MA Girls's to Nationals?

Tier I teams playing in Tier II, doesn't do anyone any good.

 

[sillywench]

Re: Tier I & Tier II MA Girls's to Nationals?

Tier I teams playing in Tier II, doesn't do anyone any good.

It not only doesn't do anyone any good, Mass Hockey district officials just took a giant dump on the thousands of hours/dollars that went into developing a legitimate girls national t2 tourney. They should be embarassed - the district officials - on so many levels. More levels than have been mentioned in this thread. It is EXTREMELY disrespectful and destructive.

Alliance going t2 can make a case - fine - this is not about splitting hairs. Mass Hockey dumping a bunch of teams that played a t1 league/schedule quite successfully on a t2 tourny is just a big pile of poop from the developement standpoint.

They know better - it is not that difficult. Any hockey person can tell the difference between a t1 and a t2 girls team almost on sight alone.

ps. Nobody I know went to play at t2 nationals - no personal interest - just really care about disturbing the fragile opportunities and developement of t2 girls hockey.


/rant

 

[WIrinkrat]

Re: Tier I & Tier II MA Girls's to Nationals?

congrats to mass hockey on their lopsided tier II sweep this week

 

[fireandice]

Re: Tier I & Tier II MA Girls's to Nationals?

Although I agree with those of you that think Mass Hockey did a disservice to T2 USA hockey Tournament, what I think was even more disgracefull was the behavior of the players, parents and COACHES of most of the teams that played against the Mass players (SOME of these Mass players were as young as 11 years old).

Although I was not there I have it from a completely reliable source that the above mentioned people were way out of control. Words weren't bad enough these people were telling their kids to intentionally hurt the Mass kids any way they could including using their sticks as weapons. Take a look at some of the penalties that are listed if you have any doubts. SHAME ON THEM.

And SHAME on USA Hockey and the refs that were there for not doing more to protect these kids.

Anyone found to be guilty of any of the aboved mentioned offenses should be kicked out of USA Hockey. There is no room for this type of behavior in USA Hockey.

Does the word Bully mean anything when you see whats going on in the world today. Criminal charges are starting to be handed out to people in these situations, so USA Hockey and the above mentioned people, be carefull.

Place the blame where it belongs, leave the kids out of it

 

[IceIsNice]

Re: Tier I & Tier II MA Girls's to Nationals?

Such an awkward situation for so many of us here in Mass.....

I know some of the Mass. kids, and so there's a side of me that wants to be very happy for them and their families, because all these kids did was do what they were told to do by a group of "leaders" who really missed the boat on this one.

The kids and their families are not to blame. They did not get together and say "hey, here's a cool idea!". They were committed by the leadership of Mass. Hockey and so they traveled (at a pretty fair personal expense.....I know, I've been to my own share of Nationals when mine was younger, it adds up pretty quick) and played hard as one would expect that kids would.

Nothing wrong with congratulating the kids....they're just kids after all.

If you wish to direct your boo-hiss at Mass. Hockey leadership, I'd have to say they are pretty ripe for it. But no one should have been threatening or harming the kids. It sounds like they had to survive a whole lot more than just beating their opponents.

 

[77-22]

Re: Tier I & Tier II MA Girls's to Nationals?

Although I agree with those of you that think Mass Hockey did a disservice to T2 USA hockey Tournament, what I think was even more disgracefull was the behavior of the players, parents and COACHES of most of the teams that played against the Mass players (SOME of these Mass players were as young as 11 years old).

Although I was not there I have it from a completely reliable source that the above mentioned people were way out of control. Words weren't bad enough these people were telling their kids to intentionally hurt the Mass kids any way they could including using their sticks as weapons. Take a look at some of the penalties that are listed if you have any doubts. SHAME ON THEM.

And SHAME on USA Hockey and the refs that were there for not doing more to protect these kids.

Anyone found to be guilty of any of the aboved mentioned offenses should be kicked out of USA Hockey. There is no room for this type of behavior in USA Hockey.

Does the word Bully mean anything when you see whats going on in the world today. Criminal charges are starting to be handed out to people in these situations, so USA Hockey and the above mentioned people, be carefull.

Place the blame where it belongs, leave the kids out of it

All true,
I felt so bad for the 12 yo who got boo'd what poor sportsmanship!
When the U19 Skill winners got announced the team who won the SPIRT award were among the loudest boo'g the winners.

Hopefully people will get the message that this was not a decison to PLAY DOWN but an invitation to represent MASS and there would be consequences to the organization if they did not go.

I will say that all the Mass Girls and Parents I saw acted with Class and cheered everyone equally.

 

[NJCPolarBear]

Mass Hockey A Joke

Mass Hockey A Joke

To send some of the best Tier 1 girls hockey teams in the country to a Tier 2 tournament is a disgrace!

Old Man Carl and the rest of the Old Boys Club in Mass need to look in the mirror [that may be pretty scary for most of them]. Totally ruined an otherwise very competitive Tier 2 tournament.

Can you imagine if the boys from your district sent the loser of the AAA Bantam Majors to Tier 2 Nationals? You would never hear the end of it.

Nice job Bay State and Spitfires...hope you're happy with those Tier 2 medals and Mass Hockey is happy with the 'sweep' at Tier 2 Nationals.....[also nice to see AV slipping at Tier 1]

 

[Hux]

Re: Mass Hockey A Joke

Re: Mass Hockey A Joke

To send some of the best Tier 1 girls hockey teams in the country to a Tier 2 tournament is a disgrace!

Old Man Carl and the rest of the Old Boys Club in Mass need to look in the mirror [that may be pretty scary for most of them]. Totally ruined an otherwise very competitive Tier 2 tournament.

Can you imagine if the boys from your district sent the loser of the AAA Bantam Majors to Tier 2 Nationals? You would never hear the end of it.

Nice job Bay State and Spitfires...hope you're happy with those Tier 2 medals and Mass Hockey is happy with the 'sweep' at Tier 2 Nationals.....[also nice to see AV slipping at Tier 1]

Had nothing to do with Carl Gray, and everything to do with poor planning prior to the season on the part of Mass Hockey, and then putting in place a plan that backfired. I can guarantee you that Mass Hockey was against sending either team, but was getting pressure from USA Hockey to ensure a full field.

 

[prepplayer]

Re: Tier I & Tier II MA Girls's to Nationals?

Mass hockey could have sent the spitfires U19B team that won the states? Don't know why they didn't. They still would have gotten a team...

 

[Sweden]

Re: Tier I & Tier II MA Girls's to Nationals?

Exactly

 

[YankeeZulu]

Re: Tier I & Tier II MA Girls's to Nationals?

Although I agree with those of you that think Mass Hockey did a disservice to T2 USA hockey Tournament, what I think was even more disgracefull was the behavior of the players, parents and COACHES of most of the teams that played against the Mass players (SOME of these Mass players were as young as 11 years old).

Although I was not there I have it from a completely reliable source that the above mentioned people were way out of control. Words weren't bad enough these people were telling their kids to intentionally hurt the Mass kids any way they could including using their sticks as weapons. Take a look at some of the penalties that are listed if you have any doubts. SHAME ON THEM.

And SHAME on USA Hockey and the refs that were there for not doing more to protect these kids.

Anyone found to be guilty of any of the aboved mentioned offenses should be kicked out of USA Hockey. There is no room for this type of behavior in USA Hockey.

Does the word Bully mean anything when you see whats going on in the world today. Criminal charges are starting to be handed out to people in these situations, so USA Hockey and the above mentioned people, be carefull.

Place the blame where it belongs, leave the kids out of it

Wasn't there. I took F&I's advice and just went through the stats for all of the Tier II BayState Breakers and Mass Spitfires games. I think F&I's info above about undue violence in these games is greatly exaggerated. I saw nothing out of line in the number or type of penalties in any of the U12, U14, and U16 games. Also, no major penalties at any of these games or the U19 games that I reviewed. They usually call it tight at the Nationals at all levels, so you do expect more minors than in your local league. And they definitely will call majors when warranted. In one U19 game, it looks like the St Clair Shores Saints decided to bully the Spitfires rather than play hockey, ending up with something like 17 minors -- lot of roughing (checking), slashing, etc. A double minor for roughing and a misconduct to boot. The rough play started right off, not a consequence of a one-sided game. All of the other U19 games with the Spitfires looked relatively peaceful. So, one bad apple. A team I've never heard of before. Not an indictment of USA Hockey management of the games or the other Tier II teams at the tournament. F&I: If I missed a game that you were particularly concerned about, please point it out to me.

 

[NJCPolarBear]

Re: Tier I & Tier II MA Girls's to Nationals?

Riiiiiiight. Old Man Carl has nothing to do with Mass Hockey. That's a good one! Try again.

Tier 1 teams at Tier 2 Nationals = Championships for Mass Hockey. Pretty simple to see what went on here in the back-rooms up in Mass. [and I don't buy the 'they were just too lazy' theory].

A disgrace.

 

[Sweden]

Re: Tier I & Tier II MA Girls's to Nationals?

The winners of the State bound championships at each age level should have been sent.

I assume next year, Mass will hold a Tier I, Tier II state championship

 

[girlshockeyfan]

Re: Tier I & Tier II MA Girls's to Nationals?

Riiiiiiight. Old Man Carl has nothing to do with Mass Hockey. That's a good one! Try again.

Tier 1 teams at Tier 2 Nationals = Championships for Mass Hockey. Pretty simple to see what went on here in the back-rooms up in Mass. [and I don't buy the 'they were just too lazy' theory].

A disgrace.

I guess what I don't really understand is why you are making assumptions when you clearly don't know the truth. What incentive would Carl have to push this type of scenario? Wouldn't he rather see his 2 teams (that won at the non-national bound tournament at U14 and U16) go to Tier 2 Nationals?

Clearly what happened here with the Massachusetts teams is not right and not good for the spirit of Tier 2, but I think people in Massachusetts have been really successful at growing the girls' game and the programs in Massachusetts. It's no longer just Assabet...there are a lot of other great programs with multiple teams that are developing girls. If Mass Hockey went the route of sending the best "2" team (as has been suggested) then, well, it would have been Assabet and the Wizards at 3 of the 4 levels. On one hand I think it's great that multiple programs from Massachusetts were able to experience a National tournament - it's just too bad that it happened this way. I don't think we'd be having this discussion if the teams went out to Nationals and lost. I know Mass Hockey had right of first refusal to send 2 teams at each level to the Tier 2 nationals and they chose to send only 1.

Notice no one is even talking about the NJ Colonials U12 team that went to the Tier 2 nationals...this is the "1" team from that program, the best team in the Atlantic district, and even carried 4 kids on the roster who were at the Tier 1 nationals last year.

 

[fireandice]

Re: Tier I & Tier II MA Girls's to Nationals?

Wasn't there. I took F&I's advice and just went through the stats for all of the Tier II BayState Breakers and Mass Spitfires games. I think F&I's info above about undue violence in these games is greatly exaggerated. I saw nothing out of line in the number or type of penalties in any of the U12, U14, and U16 games. Also, no major penalties at any of these games or the U19 games that I reviewed. They usually call it tight at the Nationals at all levels, so you do expect more minors than in your local league. And they definitely will call majors when warranted. In one U19 game, it looks like the St Clair Shores Saints decided to bully the Spitfires rather than play hockey, ending up with something like 17 minors -- lot of roughing (checking), slashing, etc. A double minor for roughing and a misconduct to boot. The rough play started right off, not a consequence of a one-sided game. All of the other U19 games with the Spitfires looked relatively peaceful. So, one bad apple. A team I've never heard of before. Not an indictment of USA Hockey management of the games or the other Tier II teams at the tournament. F&I: If I missed a game that you were particularly concerned about, please point it out to me.

As I said before things got out of control. You are correct at the younger level the penalties on the ice were fairly normal but as I said it was not only the players but the parents and coaches at all levels. The things coming out of the stands were very disturbing at all levels. The Skills competition was horrible with parents and players booing any Mass girl whose name was announced as being in the competition and even more so if they won. The further these girls went in this competition the more hostile it got. And this was happening at almost all of the games.

They did have a coaches meeting finally and I assume the coaches were told to tone it down. Some people listened, others didn't.

It was so bad that the Mass girls were told not to travel around by themselves and to basically use the buddy system and travel in groups.

Yankee if you want to call me out on how you read the penalties thats fine, but read my statement through thoroughly. It was not just the people on the ice, it was the people in the stands, and the people on the benches that allowed this type of behavior to go on. Lets comment on that as well. Someone let this go on, no one was kicked out of the stands regardless of how obnoxious they were. Who was in charge of this tournament?
Again these are kids that we are talking about.

I do want to point out that there were some good organizations there that handled the situation with class. Team Wyoming was one, great group of kids and parents in that organization.

 

[UCONN FAN]

Re: Tier I & Tier II MA Girls's to Nationals?

Riiiiiiight. Old Man Carl has nothing to do with Mass Hockey. That's a good one! Try again.

Tier 1 teams at Tier 2 Nationals = Championships for Mass Hockey. Pretty simple to see what went on here in the back-rooms up in Mass. [and I don't buy the 'they were just too lazy' theory].

A disgrace.