Tier I & Tier II MA Girls's to Nationals?

[live4hockey]

Re: Tier I & Tier II MA Girls's to Nationals?

From USA Hockey's standpoint, what's the difference between what NAHA does and a club like Team Pittsburgh? Their u14 team won Nationals. I have been told that they have girls from 8 or 9 different states. At least at NAHA and Shattuck they do all goto school together and play and practice together. Team Pittsburgh just brings the best girls together, plays in a league and some tournaments and has to play a 1 game district "championship" to goto Nationals. Why shouldn't NAHA be allowed to do the same?

 

[bbtt]

Re: Tier I & Tier II MA Girls's to Nationals?

Players from SSM are from all over the country and I don't see a whole lot of folks complaining about them being at Nationals. Minnesota allows it for out of state kids living at a school. Vermont has other ideas.

Having attended Nationals with SSM in attendance, I would say that there were many objections to them being there. I would say that in some respects, they may have had (at least in the early years) a similar experience to the Spitfires.

 

[hcky85]

Re: Tier I & Tier II MA Girls's to Nationals?

So if all the players on SSM went down to the corner rink and signed up to play on a team together (in addition to their school team), coached by the same coach, wearing the same uniforms, you wouldn't have a problem?



It's because you like me soooo much.

You know when like your not really expecting something and then you see something pretty repulsive. And then throw up comes up your throat a little but then just goes right back down… that literally just happened to me when I read that.

 

[notfromaroundhere]

Re: Tier I & Tier II MA Girls's to Nationals?

I am not sure what else I can say to help you understand that a team that practices together 4-5 days a week with games on the weekends at a school, where they live together, eat together, etc has an advantage over one that practices twice a week with games on weekends, so I am not even going to bother trying to convince you.

I will just say that this year, in what I initially thought would be a huge failure, USA Hockey changed the Youth (i.e. Boys) Nationals to allow one representative from each state. Rather than continuously getting shut out by the few perennial power houses (who really shouldn’t have anything left to prove), this allowed each state to compete at a level that was representative of their state’s registration rates (1A, 2A, 3A & 4A). Watching these games, it was great to see similarly skilled teams play each other when there was nothing on the line but heart. Sure, there were a few mis-steps with teams allowed in the wrong categories (luckily, they didn’t win), but overall, it was a great experience.

It will be interesting to see if the inclusion of a broader base, of relatively unknown teams, will translate into a higher retention rate/commitment next season.

That is my hope for girls (although my girl is long gone from this scene). Prep schools may grow an individual’s skills and capabilities, but until we are able to translate hockey into an affordable alternative for the masses it will continue to be a niche sport.

By your logic, all prep teams should be better than all club teams based upon the fact that they all live together, practice together (5 days a week) and play on a rink on campus. Doesn't quite work that way. It takes a lot more than that to build a champion. I just get feeling that there are those who let their feelings of jealousy (I can't afford NAHA or SSM or NSA) get in the way of allowing the best players to come together to form the best teams.

As to the future development of the sport, until ice is subsidized by more communities across the country (not too many do it now) and hockey equipment becomes cheap, hockey will remain a sport dominated by the wealthy. It doesn't mean that those of modest means (us included - we have been in the 15% marginal tax braket for as long as I can remember) can't do well - we just have to be more creative. If a girl has hockey talent and a high degree of educational development, trust me there are plenty of prep schools where she can get a very affordable education and play some excellent hockey. No, it isn't at the corner rink, but no great accomplishment was ever without a degree of sacrifice.

Until this happens, I don't see the point in keeping those who are willing to put the resources into developing better players and teams from doing so and competing to demonstrate their success at Nationals.

 

[notfromaroundhere]

Re: Tier I & Tier II MA Girls's to Nationals?

You know when like your not really expecting something and then you see something pretty repulsive. And then throw up comes up your throat a little but then just goes right back down… that literally just happened to me when I read that.

And you keep coming back for more... Isn't that a sign that you should stop?

 

[notfromaroundhere]

Re: Tier I & Tier II MA Girls's to Nationals?

Having attended Nationals with SSM in attendance, I would say that there were many objections to them being there. I would say that in some respects, they may have had (at least in the early years) a similar experience to the Spitfires.

I call it being a sore loser when you look for some perceived advantage another team has developed and cry "unfair". If people don't like SSM winning, form your own hockey school and see if your results improve.

I've been to Nationals and watched SSM play. Their top athletes aren't necessarily better than other teams' athletes. They may have more depth than many other competitors. However, what they do well is play together as a disciplined team and are coached very well. Yes, they play a longer schedule than other teams and practice more, but who is to say that other non-school based teams cannot replicate that?

 

[notfromaroundhere]

Re: Tier I & Tier II MA Girls's to Nationals?

From USA Hockey's standpoint, what's the difference between what NAHA does and a club like Team Pittsburgh? Their u14 team won Nationals. I have been told that they have girls from 8 or 9 different states. At least at NAHA and Shattuck they do all goto school together and play and practice together. Team Pittsburgh just brings the best girls together, plays in a league and some tournaments and has to play a 1 game district "championship" to goto Nationals. Why shouldn't NAHA be allowed to do the same?

My daughter has been in a similar situation (multi-state players on the team) at Nationals. Nobody complained because they didn't win it all. I suggest that the complaining here is about the success, not the method.

 

[Trillium]

Re: Tier I & Tier II MA Girls's to Nationals?

My daughter has been in a similar situation (multi-state players on the team) at Nationals. Nobody complained because they didn't win it all. I suggest that the complaining here is about the success, not the method.

Absolutely. It's the same no matter where you are from. In Canada, the Toronto Aeros are by far the most hated team around for similar reasons. They also happen to be the most successful, winning the PWHL championship 4 of the 6 years the league has existed, and placing more D1 players than any other. So people love to take potshots at every opportunity.

Its not surprising that SSM and Assabet are the clubs everyone loves to hate stateside.

 

[bbtt]

Re: Tier I & Tier II MA Girls's to Nationals?

Absolutely. It's the same no matter where you are from. In Canada, the Toronto Aeros are by far the most hated team around for similar reasons. They also happen to be the most successful, winning the PWHL championship 4 of the 6 years the league has existed, and placing more D1 players than any other. So people love to take potshots at every opportunity.

Its not surprising that SSM and Assabet are the clubs everyone loves to hate stateside.

If you think my feelings are based in jealousy, you are mistaken. My kids are playing for them, not for me. My life is no different whether they win or lose so why would I be jealous of a group of girls for winning?

However, since this forum is to express opinions and to hopefully exchange ideas, I do think to make a game interesting, you have to at least have a chance to win. I also think that to remain challenging, any tournament should not be dominated by one group for a period of years. If this is occuring, then the event is not appropriately competitive.

 

[hcky85]

Re: Tier I & Tier II MA Girls's to Nationals?

I call it being a sore loser when you look for some perceived advantage another team has developed and cry "unfair". If people don't like SSM winning, form your own hockey school and see if your results improve.

I've been to Nationals and watched SSM play. Their top athletes aren't necessarily better than other teams' athletes. They may have more depth than many other competitors. However, what they do well is play together as a disciplined team and are coached very well. Yes, they play a longer schedule than other teams and practice more, but who is to say that other non-school based teams cannot replicate that?

Except that the team I wanted to win was Assabet and they did. But I still don’t think SSM or NSA should have been there. So sore loser... not so much.

And just about every non-school team can say they can't replicate that.

 

[LG4]

Re: Tier I & Tier II MA Girls's to Nationals?

Hitting tailpipes and crack pipes… doesn’t that imply a joke to you?

Whoa ! It does ,even if I don't have an ivy league degree I did enjoy the joke. I was just trying to point out the absurdity of what he was saying as you did.

 

[botoloph]

Re: Tier I & Tier II MA Girls's to Nationals?

tier 1 should be the top teams.

 

[IceIsNice]

Re: Tier I & Tier II MA Girls's to Nationals?

Absolutely. It's the same no matter where you are from. In Canada, the Toronto Aeros are by far the most hated team around for similar reasons. They also happen to be the most successful, winning the PWHL championship 4 of the 6 years the league has existed, and placing more D1 players than any other. So people love to take potshots at every opportunity.

Its not surprising that SSM and Assabet are the clubs everyone loves to hate stateside.

Then of course, there's always the generally hated Yankees!

 

[Trillium]

Re: Tier I & Tier II MA Girls's to Nationals?

Then of course, there's always the generally hated Yankees!

Exactly.
I've ALWAYS hated em!!!

 

[CalHockey]

Re: Tier I & Tier II MA Girls's to Nationals?

Let's understand something, while it's patenly unfair to have tier I teams play in a tier II tournament, especially Nationals, I feel that the competitive teams learned a valuable lesson that they can take to future years. Not that life is unfair, but that with the proper coaching, practice, and mental motivation any team can be defeated.