The Top 25 College Hockey Teams of the NCAA Era

[FreshFish]

Re: The Top 25 College Hockey Teams of the NCAA Era

I thought about that as well, and suggested to CHW that what they should have done is given points by the ratio of...

(1/1+(number of spots away from the actual position))*point value of position

It was not received well.

that's exactly the system they are using, isn't it?....if you miss by one spot you get half of the point value....only they don't extend it any further.

inane.

Maybe they were deterred by it being a formula instead of plain words that describe the outcome...some people just have irrational phobias when they see notation

miss by one spot, get half.

miss by two spots, get 1/3

miss by three spots, get 1/4.

 

[Fighting Sioux 23]

Re: The Top 25 College Hockey Teams of the NCAA Era

that's exactly the system they are using, isn't it?....if you miss by one spot you get half of the point value....only they don't extend it any further.

inane.

Maybe they were deterred by it being a formula instead of plain words that describe the outcome...some people just have irrational phobias when they see notation

miss by one spot, get half.

miss by two spots, get 1/3

miss by three spots, get 1/4.

I believe they are going by 1/3 of the point value for the actual position. So, if you had the #9 team ranked 10th, you would receive 1.667 points (1/3*5). Similarly, if you have the #2 team ranked 1st, you would receive 20 points (1/3*60). If you ranked the #2 team 4th, you would receive nothing (other than the 3 points for correctly having that team in the top 10).

At this point, I don't believe they can change it (nor do I think they want to), as the rules stated that changes could only be made to the scoring up until January 1st. FWIW, I have no idea if it would make a difference in who would ultimately win the contest, but you are more than welcome to calculate (I may be inclined to help as well) the points using a different formula.

 

[FreshFish]

Re: The Top 25 College Hockey Teams of the NCAA Era

you are more than welcome to calculate ... the points using a different formula.

Perhaps I will, once it is over. We could use your method, which I like, or an alternate method, which at first glance I would like even more. My level of motivation probably will depend upon the final outcome.

 

[Ralph Baer]

Re: The Top 25 College Hockey Teams of the NCAA Era

Perhaps I will, once it is over. We could use your method, which I like, or an alternate method, which at first glance I would like even more. My level of motivation probably will depend upon the final outcome.

Do you mean that RPI '85 finishing at #8 wasn't motivation?

FS23. Just curious. Did the tie vs. LSSU hurt? There really wasn't much motivation to win the 2nd game of a two-game total goal series with the first game won big.

 

[Fighting Sioux 23]

Re: The Top 25 College Hockey Teams of the NCAA Era

Do you mean that RPI '85 finishing at #8 wasn't motivation?

FS23. Just curious. Did the tie vs. LSSU hurt? There really wasn't much motivation to win the 2nd game of a two-game total goal series with the first game won big.

The tie did not do much either way really, as it was an NCAA Tourney game. Had the ECAC been slightly stronger that season, that could have helped point wise, but probably not overall ranking wise. But no, the tie didn't hurt.

 

[FreshFish]

Re: The Top 25 College Hockey Teams of the NCAA Era

Do you mean that RPI '85 finishing at #8 wasn't motivation?

I meant something else entirely!

 

[FreshFish]

Re: The Top 25 College Hockey Teams of the NCAA Era

I forgot the point totals for each correct place, and it is not listed on the CHW website as far as I can tell.

You mentioned that 10th was 5 points and 2nd was 60 points....would you mind refreshing my memory again on the point totals per place?

Maybe I will noodle around with alternate scoring after all....if we get snowed in or something.

 

[Fighting Sioux 23]

Re: The Top 25 College Hockey Teams of the NCAA Era

I forgot the point totals for each correct place, and it is not listed on the CHW website as far as I can tell.

You mentioned that 10th was 5 points and 2nd was 60 points....would you mind refreshing my memory again on the point totals per place?

Maybe I will noodle around with alternate scoring after all....if we get snowed in or something.

10th place = 5 points
9th place = 5 points
8th place = 15 points
7th place = 15 points
6th place = 25 points
5th place = 25 points
4th place = 35 points
3rd place = 45 points
2nd place = 60 points
1st place = 90 points

Then obviously 3 points for having a team correctly in your top 10.

The highest score that anyone could have had was 350 points.

 

[FreshFish]

Re: The Top 25 College Hockey Teams of the NCAA Era

10th place = 5 points
9th place = 5 points
8th place = 15 points
7th place = 15 points
6th place = 25 points
5th place = 25 points
4th place = 35 points
3rd place = 45 points
2nd place = 60 points
1st place = 90 points

Then obviously 3 points for having a team correctly in your top 10..

wow, the weighting of this scoring system is way out of balance. You know it too.


so it goes. at least the "1/3 credit if off only by one" scoring means that, if one merely has 1st and 2nd transposed, they still get 50 points out of it...

On the other hand, .... imagine that someone gets the top three right. 1 - 2 - 3 you get 195 points*... but guess 3 - 2 - 1 and you get 60 points*? that is way too lopsided for such a relatively trivial difference, especially if the point total your formula spits out is within 0.85 among them....



* plus the 9 points for picking a team on the list.

 

[FreshFish]

Re: The Top 25 College Hockey Teams of the NCAA Era

PS. Now I like your proposed scoring even better...I'd have 10.25 points instead of 6....hmm....maybe I will check the others after all, we'll see.....


Correction: 10 points not 10.25.

 

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: The Top 25 College Hockey Teams of the NCAA Era

PS. Now I like your proposed scoring even better...I'd have 10.25 points instead of 6....hmm....maybe I will check the others after all, we'll see.....

If you want I can email you what everyone ranked all the teams?

 

[FreshFish]

Re: The Top 25 College Hockey Teams of the NCAA Era

If you want I can email you what everyone ranked all the teams?

Thanks for the offer; that information is listed on the CHW website.

http://www.collegehockeyweekly.com/Leaderboard.html

So far, you'd have 9.5 points under FS23's proposed scoring system. 5/5 for Michigan Tech and 15/6 for Rensselaer, plus 6 points. Also, I made a math error earlier, I'd have 10 points under his system. 5/5 for Michigan tech, 15/5 for Rensselaer, plus 6 points.

 

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: The Top 25 College Hockey Teams of the NCAA Era

Thanks for the offer; that information is listed on the CHW website.

http://www.collegehockeyweekly.com/Leaderboard.html

So far, you'd have 9.5 points under FS23's proposed scoring system. 5/5 for Michigan Tech and 15/6 for Rensselaer, plus 6 points. Also, I made a math error earlier, I'd have 10 points under his system. 5/5 for Michigan tech, 15/5 for Rensselaer, plus 6 points.

Well I know its all there, but I already did the work. I have a spreadsheet with of all 20 entries and who they selected and where...

 

[FreshFish]

Re: The Top 25 College Hockey Teams of the NCAA Era

Well I know its all there, but I already did the work. I have a spreadsheet with of all 20 entries and who they selected and where...

ah, I see now, thanks again for the offer, if I decide to re-score the contest I'll let you know at that time...

 

[FreshFish]

Re: The Top 25 College Hockey Teams of the NCAA Era

I found a shortcut that allowed me to use FS23's proposed scoring methodology.

Here is what the standings would look like after the release of # 8, # 9, # 10 using his method:

davewb 14.21
bumpreader 13.50
siouxfaninseattle 11.00
Spartanforlife4 10.50
Lord Humongous 10.50
FreshFish 10.00
Moxie Girl 10.00
Badger Abroad 10.00
MindDoc 9.50
Shirtless Guy 9.50
DSTY 8.00
aygwm2 8.00
fellowes 8.00
statehockey 8.00
tabasca 6.75
visoroo 3.83
mkw 0.00
dwollstadt 0.00

However, it is still wide open.

18 of the above picked '69-'70 Cornell either 1st or 2nd, one picked them 3rd. 17 of the above picked '92-'93 Maine either 1st or 2nd. Assuming those two schools actually DO finish # 1 and # 2, that means under the actual scoring system being used by CHW, 16 people will either get 150 points or 50 points from those two schools.

In retrospect, I feel really stupid not to have included a North Dakota team somewhere on my list, I should have realized that, for any top ten list produced by FS23, the chances are extremely good that it would include a North Dakota team on it somewhere! (though not because he deliberately constructs his formulas to make sure of that outcome, that's not what I'm saying....)

 

[Fighting Sioux 23]

Re: The Top 25 College Hockey Teams of the NCAA Era

In retrospect, I feel really stupid not to have included a North Dakota team somewhere on my list, I should have realized that, for any top ten list produced by FS23, the chances are extremely good that it would include a North Dakota team on it somewhere! (though not because he deliberately constructs his formulas to make sure of that outcome, that's not what I'm saying....)

I guess we'll have to see if a North Dakota squad makes the top 10.

Also, I really should note that I periodically go back and add teams that I have not ranked. For example, I recently added the 2008 Notre Dame squad that made it to the title game (they did not crack the top 100). As a result, it is entirely possible (although highly unlikely) that a team that I had not ranked would squeeze its way into the top 25. If that happens, I'll correct the Greatest Teams thread. Further, if a team this season (or any point in the future) cracks the top 25, the list will be switched to include the new team. I'm also planning on keeping a list of the top 100 teams on the website at some point after the countdown is completed.

 

[FreshFish]

Re: The Top 25 College Hockey Teams of the NCAA Era

I guess we'll have to see if a North Dakota squad makes the top 10.

well, 19 of 19 people who entered the contest are picking the '86-87 North Dakota team to make it....unfortunately 2 of those people did not include that team on their lists because they did not do adequate research.

 

[Fighting Sioux 23]

Re: The Top 25 College Hockey Teams of the NCAA Era

well, 19 of 19 people who entered the contest are picking the '86-87 North Dakota team to make it....unfortunately 2 of those people did not include that team on their lists because they did not do adequate research.

Yeah, the '86-'87 Sioux were pretty impressive. The top scoring line in history with the Hrkac Circus, Ian Kidd on defense and Eddie the Eagle in nets...they did lose twice to a poor CC squad, once to a terrible Tech side, a loss to NMU when they had already clinched everything, and had that epic 5-3 loss to American International right before Christmas. That being said, they were the first school to reach the 40 win plateau (and one of only two schools ever ('93 Maine) to do so), a mark I doubt another school will hit unless the amount of games are increased.

 

[FreshFish]

Re: The Top 25 College Hockey Teams of the NCAA Era

The top scoring line in history....

on a 'total per season' basis, no doubt....I wouldn't be quite so sure on a 'points per game' basis however, though I'm not sure if the requisite data would be available from the 1951-1952 season to compare......14.4 points per game and 8.3 goals per game and a scoring margin of 4.9 goals per game for [ahem] a certain team that year, with a thinner bench than most schools generally carry.....not sure if the totals for the lines are broken out though.

 

[Fighting Sioux 23]

Re: The Top 25 College Hockey Teams of the NCAA Era

on a 'total per season' basis, no doubt....I wouldn't be quite so sure on a 'points per game' basis however, though I'm not sure if the requisite data would be available from the 1951-1952 season to compare......14.4 points per game and 8.3 goals per game and a scoring margin of 4.9 goals per game for [ahem] a certain team that year, with a thinner bench than most schools generally carry.....not sure if the totals for the lines are broken out though.

Now what would be interesting is to compare those two lines on a points per minute basis.